CFZ Couple of post draft thoughts-we weren't physical enough

[DanA]

You mean like Bobby Wagner?

He's one option, but not the only option. To be honest, I was thinking more like 6m per season rather than 12m.

 

[DanA]

The problem with that is you don’t draft people that need help in the first round. Jermaine Johnson was right there, Travis Jones was there in the second, Salyer was there in the 4th. Salyer is a beast in the run, he’s actually a left guard and needs coaching. The 4th round is where you take those risks. Not the first. I’d be a lot more comfortable with Johnson, Jones, Tolbert, Salyer. As I’m sure many would be

"Johnson has NFL traits and the potential to keep getting bigger and better as a pro. He is a one-year full-time starter with an underdeveloped pass rush and occasional lapses in awareness, but both areas should be correctable with more coaching and game experience." - Lance 3 Zierlein (NFL.com)

Not having a go but I just don't think that statement is realistic. We take plenty of developmental guys in rd 1 and 2 and in fact, I think half the players pick rd 1 this last draft has flaws that need to be sorted out.

 

[RonnieT24]

The startling thing about that clip is the guy who did it to him is less than 250 lbs.

But yeah, everyone gets beat at times. My main point here is everyone seems to just be assuming he'll be better inside and he's an immediate upgrade. Don't be surprised if there's some growing pains.

No one will be surprised if there are growing pains. There were growing pains with Tyron and he was pick 11? OL takes time to get there. Zack would've taken more time to grow too if not for the fact that he came in and line up alongside an all pro center and a pretty solid vet RT in Free. A lot easier to shine in that situation. Smith will have a tougher road to hoe because he's NOT lining up next to an all world center and he's going to be spending a lot of his time trying to learn to replace the all world LT next to him. I wish they would just leave him at guard all of OTAs and camp and not make him try to learn tackle until he has mastered guard... but it's the Cowboys.. so we know they won't.

 

[RonnieT24]

"Johnson has NFL traits and the potential to keep getting bigger and better as a pro. He is a one-year full-time starter with an underdeveloped pass rush and occasional lapses in awareness, but both areas should be correctable with more coaching and game experience." - Lance 3 Zierlein (NFL.com)

Not having a go but I just don't think that statement is realistic. We take plenty of developmental guys in rd 1 and 2 and in fact, I think half the players pick rd 1 this last draft has flaws that need to be sorted out.

More than half given that the consensus was that there were only 14-15 true first round grades handed out by most teams and talent evaluators. It was a deep draft but not long on superstar talent.. and some of the superstar talent golt pushed down by injuries..

 

[buybuydandavis]

Last yr we heard a common theme after several losses late in the yr and even in the playoff loss, "we weren't physical enough".

Newton pointed the finger at Philbin and his oline scheme for that. Said he was holding the oline back. I agree with him.

 

[phildadon86]

He's one option, but not the only option. To be honest, I was thinking more like 6m per season rather than 12m.

Wagner got 6 million a year lol

 

[DanA]

Wagner got 6 million a year lol

I just checked and he got 5 years 50m (3 years guaranteed).

 

[Creeper]

The NFL Network replayed the 2021 Cowboys-Vikings game last night. Rush was the QB with Dak sitting because of a calf injury. The Cowboys won, their 6th victory in a row. If you watch than game, the Cowboys were plenty physical. The defense played well and the OL played well, at least until Tyron Smith went out with an ankle injury. Nsekhe came in and had some trouble at times. That played that game without DLaw and Gallimore on defense. They managed to get good pressure with Gregory, Basham and even Golston. Side note: They are going to miss Randy Gregory who made a few stupid plays but he also was as disruptive as anyone on defense. Maybe he did not get a lot of sacks but he was around the QB a lot and caused a lot of rushed and errant throws.

The next week after the Vikings, the Cowboys got stomped by the Broncos but the Cowboys came back and beat up on the Falcons the following week, again, they were very physical that game too, the Broncos loss seemed to throw them off their game. But after the Broncos loss, they only gave up 30 points or more only once in next 9 games. That one time was the 36-33 loss to the Raiders on Thanksgiving. In 6 of those 9 games they gave up only 20 or fewer points.

I don't think physicality is the answer. Not that they could not be a little stronger up front on both sides of the ball. They could, specifically at LG, C and DT. I also think Collins was one of the more physical offensive linemen on the team and he is gone now. Someone needs to step up and play that position better.

I think what the Cowboys need is more consistency on the OL. Last year they lost Tyron for a few games, experimented with both LG and RT, moved Steele to LT where he has not played and all that hurt them. I think we all agreed Connor Williams needed to get benched but the problem is the Cowboys had no replacement for him and when they put in McGovern, he failed to improve things. Then there is Dak. After he came back from the calf injury he was not the same QB. You could see he was not as decisive, or accurate. Maybe the latter effected the former. Was that a function of the OL or was Dak just off? I think it was a little of the OL and a lot of Dak. If Dak played the last half of the season the way he played the first half, I have no doubt the Cowboys would have won that game against the 49ers. But at the same time, the OL needs to open more lanes for the RBs and the Cowboys OC needs to stick with the run more. Since Dak returned from the calf, the Cowboys averaged throwing twice as many times as handing it off to the RBs. They need to balance that a little better and take the pressure off Dak. He cannot average 40 passes per game, especially when he is not on his game.

 

[Corso]

The NFL Network replayed the 2021 Cowboys-Vikings game last night. Rush was the QB with Dak sitting because of a calf injury. The Cowboys won, their 6th victory in a row. If you watch than game, the Cowboys were plenty physical. The defense played well and the OL played well, at least until Tyron Smith went out with an ankle injury. Nsekhe came in and had some trouble at times. That played that game without DLaw and Gallimore on defense. They managed to get good pressure with Gregory, Basham and even Golston. Side note: They are going to miss Randy Gregory who made a few stupid plays but he also was as disruptive as anyone on defense. Maybe he did not get a lot of sacks but he was around the QB a lot and caused a lot of rushed and errant throws.

The next week after the Vikings, the Cowboys got stomped by the Broncos but the Cowboys came back and beat up on the Falcons the following week, again, they were very physical that game too, the Broncos loss seemed to throw them off their game. But after the Broncos loss, they only gave up 30 points or more only once in next 9 games. That one time was the 36-33 loss to the Raiders on Thanksgiving. In 6 of those 9 games they gave up only 20 or fewer points.

I don't think physicality is the answer. Not that they could not be a little stronger up front on both sides of the ball. They could, specifically at LG, C and DT. I also think Collins was one of the more physical offensive linemen on the team and he is gone now. Someone needs to step up and play that position better.

I think what the Cowboys need is more consistency on the OL. Last year they lost Tyron for a few games, experimented with both LG and RT, moved Steele to LT where he has not played and all that hurt them. I think we all agreed Connor Williams needed to get benched but the problem is the Cowboys had no replacement for him and when they put in McGovern, he failed to improve things. Then there is Dak. After he came back from the calf injury he was not the same QB. You could see he was not as decisive, or accurate. Maybe the latter effected the former. Was that a function of the OL or was Dak just off? I think it was a little of the OL and a lot of Dak. If Dak played the last half of the season the way he played the first half, I have no doubt the Cowboys would have won that game against the 49ers. But at the same time, the OL needs to open more lanes for the RBs and the Cowboys OC needs to stick with the run more. Since Dak returned from the calf, the Cowboys averaged throwing twice as many times as handing it off to the RBs. They need to balance that a little better and take the pressure off Dak. He cannot average 40 passes per game, especially when he is not on his game.

Good post.

 

[Ranched]

MEANWHILE....

 

[charron]

Tyler is so very raw. His lack of skill could hurt him if he has to kick out to tackle. If he absorbs coaching like a sponge he could improve quickly but I also have reservations about the idiot OL coach he's learning from. Hopefully we see some good stuff from all the young kids in camp and pre-season

 

[CowboyoWales]

The problem with that is you don’t draft people that need help in the first round. Jermaine Johnson was right there, Travis Jones was there in the second, Salyer was there in the 4th. Salyer is a beast in the run, he’s actually a left guard and needs coaching. The 4th round is where you take those risks. Not the first. I’d be a lot more comfortable with Johnson, Jones, Tolbert, Salyer. As I’m sure many would be

Ok, in your world that we take..... Johnson, Jones, Tolbert, Salyer in the first, who plays LT WHEN Tyron goes down, or replaces him in 2023.

Looking at Brugler and McShay's early 2023 Mock's, there is a dearth of Tackles in next years draft (only 3 expected in the first round, none in the top 10 picks).

With that in mind the Smith picks looks the pick on multi-levels....

For info.....why would we take Jermaine Johnson when we'd so telegraphed that we liked Sam Williams that we tried handing in the pick before Day 2 had even started?

 

[phildadon86]

Ok, in your world that we take..... Johnson, Jones, Tolbert, Salyer in the first, who plays LT WHEN Tyron goes down, or replaces him in 2023.

Looking at Brugler and McShay's early 2023 Mock's, there is a dearth of Tackles in next years draft (only 3 expected in the first round, none in the top 10 picks).

With that in mind the Smith picks looks the pick on multi-levels....

For info.....why would we take Jermaine Johnson when we'd so telegraphed that we liked Sam Williams that we tried handing in the pick before Day 2 had even started?

Because Johnson is better than Williams and doesnt have character concerns? And we already have Josh Ball if Tyron goes down. Or, here is a crazy thought. Sign a FA? The cowboys had a chance to make their defense much much better and drafted for need because they didnt want to spend money. And now here we are. Unless you actually think Johnson, Jones, Tolbert, Salyer doesnt make the team better than the picks they made.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Because Johnson is better than Williams and doesnt have character concerns? And we already have Josh Ball if Tyron goes down. Or, here is a crazy thought. Sign a FA? The cowboys had a chance to make their defense much much better and drafted for need because they didnt want to spend money. And now here we are. Unless you actually think Johnson, Jones, Tolbert, Salyer doesnt make the team better than the picks they made.

Sign an FA LT.....how many times do teams allow decent LT's hit the market.

So you wanted: Johnson, Jones (3rd Rd), Tolbert (???), Salyer (6th Rd).....signing them in the first round is the work of a genius.

 

[phildadon86]

Sign an FA LT.....how many times do teams allow decent LT's hit the market.

So you wanted: Johnson, Jones (3rd Rd), Tolbert (???), Salyer (6th Rd).....signing them in the first round is the work of a genius.

What are you talking about? I wanted Johnson in the first at 24, Jones at 56, Tolbert at 88 and Salyer with our 4th round pick.

 

[CowboyoWales]

What are you talking about? I wanted Johnson in the first at 24, Jones at 56, Tolbert at 88 and Salyer with our 4th round pick.

Oh, see what you did there.

I like Travis Jones and the Talbot pick. But Salyer's a Guard (Brugler) or RT (Zierlein), the whole reason we took Smith is because of forthcoming need at LT....whilst plugging LG.

 

[phildadon86]

Oh, see what you did there.

I like Travis Jones and the Talbot pick. But Salyer's a Guard (Brugler) or RT (Zierlein), the whole reason we took Smith is because of forthcoming need at LT....whilst plugging LG.

See. I get it. But I’d rather build on a strength and with parsons and those additions the defense would have instantly become a strength

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

It's called projecting. Scouts and pundits make a living off of projecting how a player will perform at the NFL level. Their projection of a player makes a big difference in what round that player gets picked it. It's mostly done from guess work and wishful thinking, just like you said. So if a scout can project a guy as a first round draft pick without getting ridiculed. Then surely a fan can project a guy as an upgrade without being ridiculed. What's the difference? What makes one man's guess work acceptable and another man's guess work ridiculous?

I like the physicality that Tyler appears to have. I think we need nasty on the oline. If we are going to run the ball more, which is what the Cowboys have a long history of being good at, then we need a physical oline.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Maybe its just me, but I honestly believe the offseason offensive plan is to get this team's running game back to the top 5-10. Look no further than 2014 and 2016, when we led the league in rushing. Made Romo and Dak's jobs a lot easier......

Not only that but, at least imo, not only is a strong running game the long-standing identity of this franchise, but a strong run game helps set everything else up. Yes, I know it's a passing league, but you still need a strong run game to help 1. The QB not get pressured as much and 2. It makes the playaction passing more effective which helps the WRs. Oh, and it means we dominate TOP, which would mean our already dangerous defence becomes that much deadlier because they're more rested.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I find it hard to buy into the "get more physical" matra. Sure Tyler Smith makes us more physical than Connor Williams........what else did we do? Ferguson in the 4th and Ridgeway in the 5th really isn't a significant investment..... and how about free agency. If we were dead serious about getting more physical we would have signed a tone-setter in place of LVE to play LB and someone more physical than Watkins. I also don't think Biadasz as the presumed starter at OC fits the get more physical messaging.

I'm not so sure Biadasz is the shoe-in starter at C. I know it may be foolhardy to mention UDFAs, but we got Farniok and we just signed a UDFA from Boston College who should give Biadasz a real challenge.