Cover32: What Does The Future Hold For Barry Church?

[TheFinisher]

Church is a glorified high end ST type player who does a nice job making open field tackles. He's limited in what he can do coverage wise, but as long as you can scheme around it by not asking him to do what he can't and keep him where he belongs, in the box, he's serviceable.

He's not a long term solution but for now he's the best option we have that can be somewhat dependable back there. He's smart, so at least he doesn't get beat by blowing assignments or anything like that.

Still would like a playmaker at that position. At the end of the day Church is a JAG, and I won't pretend like he's some kind of answer at safety.

 

[arglebargle]

Regardless of other aspects, Church is the smartest DB they've got back there right now. Knows the coverages, etc. Church and Lee are the brains of the back 7. Replacing Church means finding or developing another knowledgeable player.

 

[pacboyX]

Regardless of other aspects, Church is the smartest DB they've got back there right now. Knows the coverages, etc. Church and Lee are the brains of the back 7. Replacing Church means finding or developing another knowledgeable player.

Smarter than Carr? I dont know how long exactly Church has been on the team (before he started), but yeah he is rather intelligent in comparison to the safeties hes competing against. But compared to safeties around the league hmmmm.

 

[17yearsandcounting]

These threads show just how terrible the Cowboys are.

As soon as someone comes along that isnt a 100% embarrassment and can do one aspect of his job properly he gets anointed by half the fan base as being some kind of long term answer.

Barry Church is a nobody.

 

[speedkilz88]

If only someone could figure out a clever scheme variation that did all those things. That team could probably win a Super Bowl.

Rob Ryan tried it while he was here, but more than 11 on the field isn't allowed.

 

[dbonham]

If only someone could figure out a clever scheme variation that did all those things. That team could probably win a Super Bowl.

Yeah I could have saved words by just posting "wouldn't it be great if Barry Church turned into Kam Chancellor", but honestly it makes sense. You don't want Church covering a TE man to man and you don't want him in a deep zone, what's left? Man coverage on the RB in a cover 1 look (where Church has shown to be a screen-seeking missle) and the aforementioned cover 3 role. He's a good player but he really does not belong in a 2 deep package unless he's at WLB.

 

[17yearsandcounting]

Oh lordy. Perry Kemp laid the smack down on Barry in another thread. He has 6 pass deflections in 47 career games and was ranked the 49th best safety by PFF.

The dude is a less gunshot prone version of Keith Davis.

 

[Corso]

As to the front line, that was not what I was addressing.
my point is this: don't keep tinkering with marginal players like Church. Franchises cannot afford to spend years experimenting and hoping a player will go from being journeymen or marginal to good players. We hold on to players longer than we need. Chuch to me is marginal. Let's look for an alternative.
larry brown had an advantage: He was being prodded by Jimma and his hard-bitten staff.
Church has a disadvantage: He is being babied and developed ad nauseum. Cut the marginal players and move on to more promsing (younger and less well-paid) players. Don't go on forever experimenting because that is what we tend to do. And that leads to our mediocrity.

I feel very argumentative this gorgeous evening in beautiful, dangerous El Paso- which is always a dangerous prospect with the whizzing bullets from Juarez giving many a person an unexpected haircut...
But I have no argument with anything you've said.

You're always one of my favorite reads here, my man from the Junior College and member of the Farmer's Whatever.
Keep on keeping on. Whether it be from the cubicle in a Satanic press room, or the basement of an unsuspecting family, or the friendly confines of a laptop resting on your lap sitting on the Throne.
Love ya, Blue.

 

[cowboys1981]

I've said this plenty, Church needs to be the WLB. He has an eye for filling up the holes. I don't get caught up in measurables, I see a player who hits the holes in the running game similar to Lavonte David. It's worth a shot.

 

[AsthmaField]

I've said this plenty, Church needs to be the WLB. He has an eye for filling up the holes. I don't get caught up in measurables, I see a player who hits the holes in the running game similar to Lavonte David. It's worth a shot.

I said that before the season started last year. In this defense he would be a very good WLB.

Won't happen though.

 

[casmith07]

Regardless of other aspects, Church is the smartest DB they've got back there right now. Knows the coverages, etc. Church and Lee are the brains of the back 7. Replacing Church means finding or developing another knowledgeable player.

Smarter than Carr? I dont know how long exactly Church has been on the team (before he started), but yeah he is rather intelligent in comparison to the safeties hes competing against. But compared to safeties around the league hmmmm.

They're both smart players, but your CBs aren't exactly "in charge" by virtue of the positions. When I played, our LCB was smarter than our FS, but we deferred to the FS because he was the "center fielder" who could see all. Just kind of how assignments work. It's why your MLB has the radio in his helmet and not a DE or something.

 

[casmith07]

I've said this plenty, Church needs to be the WLB. He has an eye for filling up the holes. I don't get caught up in measurables, I see a player who hits the holes in the running game similar to Lavonte David. It's worth a shot.

No, it isn't. Hitting the hole in the running game coming down from the secondary in run support is a completely different game from taking on pulling guards, tackles, and fullbacks in the hole and being a stack-and-shed player.

Church would get steamrolled as a WLB.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Church is adequate for now, but he is by no means a long term answer for the position. This is a pass happy league and he is a liability in pass coverage. I don't think it's a pressing need to replace him right away, there are too many holes and areas of immediate need on defense, but long term I see Church as a player that can help give depth to the defense..

 

[cowboys1981]

No, it isn't. Hitting the hole in the running game coming down from the secondary in run support is a completely different game from taking on pulling guards, tackles, and fullbacks in the hole and being a stack-and-shed player.

Church would get steamrolled as a WLB.

His attributes best suit him at WLB than safety. He lacks speed needed to cover.

 

[casmith07]

His attributes best suit him at WLB than safety. He lacks speed needed to cover.

No...just, no man.

 

[cowboys1981]

No...just, no man.

Yes... Just, yes. Lol

 

[casmith07]

Yes... Just, yes. Lol

Unless you're ready to suggest that Church is on the same talent level as Darren Woodson, then people need to let this one go.

 

[Bullflop]

Church is terrific when it comes to playing in the box. Expecting him to contribute much of anything when it comes to deep coverage and you'll simply be disappointed. Anything beyond shallow coverage just isn't what he does well at all. If we manage to secure a FS who can manage both in the box and deep coverage, that's our guy.

 

[cowboys1981]

Unless you're ready to suggest that Church is on the same talent level as Darren Woodson, then people need to let this one go.

Darren Woodson was LB turned safety, looking for a switch with Church. If you look at what he brings to the table he's a WLB. You can't count on him in coverage. I'd take him being run over by a lineman over watching him get beat in coverage.

 

[casmith07]

Church is terrific when it comes to playing in the box. Expecting him to contribute much of anything when it comes to deep coverage and you'll simply be disappointed. Anything beyond shallow coverage just isn't what he does well at all. If we manage to secure a FS who can manage both in the box and deep coverage, that's our guy.

Church does very well playing the SS role in and around the box covering TEs and Backs in the shallow zones and flats. Which is why everyone says we need a better FS who has more speed and range to play the deep third by himself in Cover 3.

Church isn't awful in deep coverage, but he just doesn't have the range. He needs a sizable jump on the play to get there and doesn't really recover well enough to be able to play a Cover 3 single high by himself.

He will do just fine in a standard zone Cover 2 where he plays the under zone with a more pure FS playing the high/deep zone. He is not a will linebacker, no matter how much these people want to just convert positions.

It's like everyone forgot the Alan Ball experiment. Even the great Charles Woodson struggled in the transition to FS from CB, two positions that are markedly more similar than Safety and WLB.