Cover32: What Does The Future Hold For Barry Church?

[StevenOtero]

Been a Barry Church fan since he was in college before we brought him here. My biggest concern for him was always his speed.

He plays more like a strong safety, which is why I think a guy like J.J. Wilcox or Jimmie Ward from NIU would be a good fit to play the rangy role over the top.

I think Calvin Pryor could also play the FS role, if that's what Dallas wants, but he too plays more like Church than not - downhill, aggressive, good tackler.

You don't understand you dang casual. We need to cut Church, he's a bum.

 

[NeonDeion21]

From the article: Here is a play where he diagnosis the run and fills his lane like a linebacker. Pretty cool.

http://cover32.com/cowboys/2014/02/20/what-does-the-future-hold-for-barry-church/

 

[Nova]

Anyone else think Church looks a little small?

He's listed at about 6'2" 220, but he just doesn't look it to me. Looks about 2" shorter and 20 lbs lighter.

Anyone else see that?

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I don't consider building a front line as tinkering, I don't care who is at CB or safety without a pass rush a decent QB and WR will have a field day. Larry Brown not a great CB yet was a big part of winning a SB in large part because of the pressure on QB

As to the front line, that was not what I was addressing.
my point is this: don't keep tinkering with marginal players like Church. Franchises cannot afford to spend years experimenting and hoping a player will go from being journeymen or marginal to good players. We hold on to players longer than we need. Chuch to me is marginal. Let's look for an alternative.
larry brown had an advantage: He was being prodded by Jimma and his hard-bitten staff.
Church has a disadvantage: He is being babied and developed ad nauseum. Cut the marginal players and move on to more promsing (younger and less well-paid) players. Don't go on forever experimenting because that is what we tend to do. And that leads to our mediocrity.

 

[KingintheNorth]

What I'd like to see happen is we either move Church to WLB or just convert to a 4-2-5 where Church can be the box safety (many 4-2-5 teams call this the Star or Joker position). Either way, Church stays closer to the line of scrimmage and has two "cover" Safeties behind him. He also would never come off the field. On 3rd and long, Bruce Carter would come off and Orlando Scandrick comes in.

4-2-5 Normal
LDE TBD
LDT TBD
RDT TBD
RDE DeMarcus Ware
SAM Bruce Carter
MIKE Sean Lee
STAR Barry Church
LCB Brandon Carr
SS JJ Wilcox
FS ??
RCB Mo Claiborne

4-2-5 Passing Downs
LDE TBD
LDT TBD
RDT TBD
RDE DeMarcus Ware
MIKE Sean Lee
STAR Barry Church
NB Orlando Scandrick
LCB Brandon Carr
SS JJ Wilcox
FS ??
RCB Mo Claiborne

With more and more passing I think it's just a matter of time before a team fully commits to a 4-2-5 defense. It basically replaces your worst coverage linebacker with a safety.

 

[casmith07]

Barry Church at linebacker = lol.

 

[Doomsday101]

As to the front line, that was not what I was addressing.
my point is this: don't keep tinkering with marginal players like Church. Franchises cannot afford to spend years experimenting and hoping a player will go from being journeymen or marginal to good players. We hold on to players longer than we need. Chuch to me is marginal. Let's look for an alternative.
larry brown had an advantage: He was being prodded by Jimma and his hard-bitten staff.
Church has a disadvantage: He is being babied and developed ad nauseum. Cut the marginal players and move on to more promsing (younger and less well-paid) players. Don't go on forever experimenting because that is what we tend to do. And that leads to our mediocrity.

Then we just disagree. I think church is a good player, playing on a poor defensive unit.

 

[DFWJC]

This is such a typical Jerry Jones kind of player. Cutting corners to save a buck. An undrafted player that fits the mold of a SS. He looks the part to fool the uneducated fan. He's ok....but you are left wanting to see more impact plays. And then in the end Jerry will over pay to keep this type of JAG in house.

I'm not so sure Church is all that bad. You may be right though; maybe his ceiling is lower than some think.

What I don't get is talk about Jerry "trying to save a buck". The guy is the classic overspender...the exact opposite of a penny pincher. They are always busting the cap and he's always giving up absurd contracts.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Barry Church at linebacker = lol.

Barry Church in deep coverage = pathetic

Barry Church is 6-2/218
Super Bowl MVP and OLB Malcolm Smith is 6-0/226

I'm sure he could never play linebacker in flag football but he's already been playing Nickel Linebacker for Dallas.

Will McClay has been talking nonstop about specialists. I don't think the idea is out of the realm of possibilities.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Then we just disagree. I think church is a good player, playing on a poor defensive unit.

I get you and we do disagree.

But by your pretzel logic, we'd half to half a good defense until Church shines? that might take a while, mein freund.

 

[casmith07]

Which is why Barry Church is a SS and we're looking for a rangy type in deep coverage. Keep up, Chris.

 

[KingintheNorth]

The scheme calls for 2 Safeties to play deep coverage a lot, which Church struggles with. I'm guessing flag football is 8-man so that concept is lost on you.

 

[Doomsday101]

I get you and we do disagree.

But by your pretzel logic, we'd half to half a good defense until Church shines? that might take a while, mein freund.

By my logic I think he is a good ball player. HOF player maybe not but he is a good player on a defense that needs help up front and needs to stay healthy. Give all the guys down last year I don't know what we have on defense there never played long enough to know much. We had how many DL player come and go during the season? Despite that Chruch continue to progress as a player.

 

[casmith07]

Unfortunately what the scheme calls for is not really known to any of us now with Marinelli in charge. Also, he isn't nearly as bad as you think he is. He plays more in the box. He's more of an in the box safety and always has been.

Try harder.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Which is why i said a 4-2-5 would be ideal. Whether you change to that scheme or just label Church the WILL, it's the same concept and seems tailor made for Church's skill set, playing in the box, covering a smaller area. Michigan State, one of the best and most physical defenses in college, is running a 4-2-5.

Stop talking down to people here. You and your mentor do not know football any better than the majority of the posters. Your DB "expertise" is laughable. Carry on PFC Smith.

 

[KDM256]

I like Barry Church as a player and think he's a good SS in our system. I would like to see him continue to imrpove on the field but I don't think like some posters on here that he needs to be replaced. Church was one of the few and I mean few bright spots on our defense.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

By my logic I think he is a good ball player. HOF player maybe not but he is a good player on a defense that needs help up front and needs to stay healthy. Give all the guys down last year I don't know what we have on defense there never played long enough to know much. We had how many DL player come and go during the season? Despite that Chruch continue to progress as a player.

You are fortunate that you saw Chruch continue to progress as a player.
I am sorry to say that I missed it. Injuries or not, this is a bad defense and Chruch was part of the badness. And who is to say that the front line played poorly and was reticent because Chruch was bad?
But, when the season begins anew, I will make it a point to give him a close look. Who knows, you might be correct this one time in your football life. But, then again, I don't believe in these 5-year experiments waiting for players to blossom (in a manly way) and prove his worth.

But, otherwise, let me end this by saying: Ever thing you say bounces of off me and sticks to you.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

If he plays close to the line of scrimmage, you can mask his faults, & play to his strengths…
he's a solid strong safety. We need to find someone to cover the backside…. wilcox or draft……
Everyone on your team can't be a superstar. He will get better with time in the short term.


Also, he got heart… we need more players like that

 

[tm1119]

What I'd like to see happen is we either move Church to WLB or just convert to a 4-2-5 where Church can be the box safety (many 4-2-5 teams call this the Star or Joker position). Either way, Church stays closer to the line of scrimmage and has two "cover" Safeties behind him. He also would never come off the field. On 3rd and long, Bruce Carter would come off and Orlando Scandrick comes in.

4-2-5 Normal
LDE TBD
LDT TBD
RDT TBD
RDE DeMarcus Ware
SAM Bruce Carter
MIKE Sean Lee
STAR Barry Church
LCB Brandon Carr
SS JJ Wilcox
FS ??
RCB Mo Claiborne

4-2-5 Passing Downs
LDE TBD
LDT TBD
RDT TBD
RDE DeMarcus Ware
MIKE Sean Lee
STAR Barry Church
NB Orlando Scandrick
LCB Brandon Carr
SS JJ Wilcox
FS ??
RCB Mo Claiborne

With more and more passing I think it's just a matter of time before a team fully commits to a 4-2-5 defense. It basically replaces your worst coverage linebacker with a safety.

Give me an over sized LDE (280+) with an aggressive defensive mindset using Church and Carter on the blitz often and I'm sold.

 

[17yearsandcounting]

Too slow, safeties like him are from a different era.