News: Cowboys are releasing Orton

[LatinMind]

Umm...no?

Romo's 1st two seasons

Games played in which he compiled a qb rating of 100 or more: 16
Games played in which he compiled a qb rating of 70 or less: 6

Weeden's 1st two seasons

Games played in which he compiled a qb rating of 100 or more: 1
Games played in which he compiled a qb rating of 70 or less: 10

Compare the talent both teams had. Compare the coaches and the structure. Weeden never had a chance in Cleveland once the sale of the team went through. Sorry

 

[coogrfan]

Weeden was given up on because the owner wanted his own QB. Weeden was drafted by the previous owner.

I don't care who drafted him, the fact that they gave up on a 1st rd pick after only two seasons is a huge red flag. Last season Weeden was clearly the worst qb on a Cleveland team that included Brian Hoyer and Jason *freaking* Campbell. The idea that this guy is a feel good story waiting to happen is ludicrous.

 

[coogrfan]

Compare the talent both teams had. Compare the coaches and the structure. Weeden never had a chance in Cleveland once the sale of the team went through. Sorry

Brian Hoyer in 3 starts: 59% completions, 5-3 td/int, 82.6 rating

Jason Campbell in 8 starts: 56.8% completions, 11-8 td/int, 76.9 rating

Brandon Weeden in 5 starts: 52.8% completions, 9-9 td/int, 70.3 rating


Face facts, man. Weeden stinks.

 

[Clove]

I liked Orton, crappy that he's gone. I don't think he's a franchise QB, but he has a strong arm and gets the ball out fast. What I'd rather have is a new young great QB prospect to build around, but Jerry only drafts first round QBs ever 30 years.

 

[Picksix]

Like I've noted - You can't just retire someone. If you could every team in the league would toss all their dead money deals that way.

Thank you.

 

[Clove]

I'm terrified of the back issues. Romo's best trait (keeping the play alive) makes him susceptible to some pretty vicious hits. Thank goodness we have a top-5 LT watching his ***. I really wish we had used a pick in the first three rounds on a QB.

I don't care if you're an immortal QB best this planet's ever seen, you can only block for so long. Sometimes your QB has to help you out and get the ball out quickly.

 

[Hostile]

out of condition guy with two years of rust who was never all that to begin with. Sounds like a Jerruh move.

You know he has rust how?

 

[Picksix]

I agree Idgit, I think this situation was different than Ratliff. The restructure kinda threw a monkey wrench into the whole thing. I get that the optics look bad here, it looks like he schooled us but there may be more to this situation than we really know.

As for Ratliff, it will have to be decided in the courts or arbitration. The problem is proving he was faking an injury. With a broken bone, its is easy to tell if a player if faking. You take an x-ray and the bone is either broken or its not. The problem is that with hamstrings, there is no way to tell if it is "pulled or strained" to the point of causing pain to the player. Yea, you can take an MRI to see if there is any tissue damage, but an MRI can come back clean with no tears visible yet still cause considerable pain. The problem is proving that a player says his hamstring hurts when it doesn't, that is the problem.

Personally, I don't think they are going to get back very much money from Ratliff when its all said and done.

I know all about false negative tests. What gets me with his situation, was that he was away from the team, seeing his own docs, and not communicating very well with the team. All season, he and his agent kept saying "He can't play." "He can't play." "His injury is more severe than the team thinks it is." "He might not be able to play until next season." Then he gets released, and one week later he's cleared to play, and within a couple weeks after that, he's practicing with another team. That just stinks.

 

[BigStar]

Orton signed a 3yr/10.5m contract in 2012. The 5m signing bonus was most of his PAY for 2012 and 2013. He only had base salaries of 800k and 1.35m for those 2 years. The Cowboys added two 'dummy' voidable years to his contract to spread out his cap charges. They also restructured his 2013 salary of 1.35m by 500k to save even more space last year. 7.2m for 2 years of a top backup QB is the going rate. Orton earned that money. Asking him to repay it after he helped the team out cap wise would be a big mistake and set a bad precedent for players re-doing their contracts when the team needs cap space.

Dallas made the smart move by cutting a guy that doesn't want to play anymore. The idea of recovering some of the signing bonus was a pipe dream and should only be 1.6m at most anyways according to the original contract and pro-ration. They save his 3.25m salary this year and that is all that matters. Paying a guy 3.25m to recover 1.67m over 2 years doesn't make any sense. The dead money of 2.2m in 2015 is the amount the team saved in 2012 and 2013 with his smaller than normal cap charges. It has nothing to do with cutting him or pulling a Jay Ratliff. Every dollar saved against the cap early in a contract has to be eventually accounted for, but it is smarter to account for it in the future when the overall cap is larger. It's basic math.

Great post and puts a different perspective on his financial "punking" of JJ that I thought initially occurred. Thanks for the clarification on the real effect of this. I just though Ratliff (again) the very next off season...sets a terrible precedent.

 

[AbeBeta]

You are all over the place here.

I have no problem with saving 3.5 million and I don't think that is bad in this situation. However, that is not what we are debating. What we are debating is your call out of those fans who, as you put it, don't know that dead money is "offset" by not having to pay the base salary. You are simply wrong. And your own post demonstrates that:



If you owe 3.5 million (which you admit) the Net Result cannnot be a Zero Hit on the cap!



There is an offset at work. But that offset applies to the total contract price for that year. Let me break it down for you.

in 2014 Kyle Orton was set to earn $4,377,500. That cap number is comprised of two components:

$3,500,000 -- base salary

$1,127,500 -- Pro-rated bonus.

By cutting Orton, the Cowboys do get an offset. But the offset is against the $4,377,500, not the pro-rated bonus, which remains on the books as dead money.

Here is overthecap:



So its not a "Zero Cap Hit"; its paying money to a player that is not on your roster.

We owed 3.5 in bonus. We saved 3.25 in salary. Net hit is a wash.

Anytime you release a player who had a bonus before his contract expire you owe part of the bonus. Good contracts are structured so that the salary savings wash out the cap hit.

And your idea that we are "paying money to a player that is not on the roster" is dead wrong. We aren't paying Orton a cent.

 

[jobberone]

Then you lose a roster spot to someone who doesn't want to play and have to deal with the media circus surrounding this issue instead of concentrating on football in camp. I don't like the fact that he didn't honor to the terms of his contract, but I can see why the FO would just want to get past this and think its the right move.

I understand that but we can still carry Weeden which I assume we were going to do anyway. We were going to carry Orton and Weeden unless Weeden clearly beat him out. So I had penciled in 3 QB spots on the roster. I'd just carry Romo and Weeden and leave him on the roster. I'd draw a redline for him and future players. But I'm stubborn to a fault.

 

[jobberone]

Orton signed a 3yr/10.5m contract in 2012. The 5m signing bonus was most of his PAY for 2012 and 2013. He only had base salaries of 800k and 1.35m for those 2 years. The Cowboys added two 'dummy' voidable years to his contract to spread out his cap charges. They also restructured his 2013 salary of 1.35m by 500k to save even more space last year. 7.2m for 2 years of a top backup QB is the going rate. Orton earned that money. Asking him to repay it after he helped the team out cap wise would be a big mistake and set a bad precedent for players re-doing their contracts when the team needs cap space.

Dallas made the smart move by cutting a guy that doesn't want to play anymore. The idea of recovering some of the signing bonus was a pipe dream and should only be 1.6m at most anyways according to the original contract and pro-ration. They save his 3.25m salary this year and that is all that matters. Paying a guy 3.25m to recover 1.67m over 2 years doesn't make any sense. The dead money of 2.2m in 2015 is the amount the team saved in 2012 and 2013 with his smaller than normal cap charges. It has nothing to do with cutting him or pulling a Jay Ratliff. Every dollar saved against the cap early in a contract has to be eventually accounted for, but it is smarter to account for it in the future when the overall cap is larger. It's basic math.

This is what happens to me when I don't read the entire thread. Thanks for clarifying. I retract my previous statement and slink away.

 

[the_h0wey]

I'm quite surprised by this. I heard he was throwing at Valley Ranch earlier this week and we gave him his playbook.

 

[AbeBeta]

Great post and puts a different perspective on his financial "punking" of JJ that I thought initially occurred. Thanks for the clarification on the real effect of this. I just though Ratliff (again) the very next off season...sets a terrible precedent.

Another piece here. We signed Orton to a 10.5 mill deal for 3 years. He got nearly half of that in bonus. So his average salary was 3.5 mill a year.

He leaves here having made a smidge over 7 mill in two years. Seems like that worked out fairly

 

[LittleD]

Anyway you want to smell this it's just another version of the Ratliff heist.
Players now know how to get over on teams by just not showing up and
declaring they don't want to play for your team anymore. Then just wait
till you are released and now free to sign and play for any team who
wants you bad enough. This stinks and now Jerry has set the
precedent twice...Yuk!!!

 

[guag]

I'm quite surprised by this. I heard he was throwing at Valley Ranch earlier this week and we gave him his playbook.

Are you sure you weren't thinking of Rolando McClain or something? Don't remember hearing that.

 

[WoodysGirl]

 

[tantrix1969]

Orton signed a 3yr/10.5m contract in 2012. The 5m signing bonus was most of his PAY for 2012 and 2013. He only had base salaries of 800k and 1.35m for those 2 years. The Cowboys added two 'dummy' voidable years to his contract to spread out his cap charges. They also restructured his 2013 salary of 1.35m by 500k to save even more space last year. 7.2m for 2 years of a top backup QB is the going rate. Orton earned that money. Asking him to repay it after he helped the team out cap wise would be a big mistake and set a bad precedent for players re-doing their contracts when the team needs cap space.

Dallas made the smart move by cutting a guy that doesn't want to play anymore. The idea of recovering some of the signing bonus was a pipe dream and should only be 1.6m at most anyways according to the original contract and pro-ration. They save his 3.25m salary this year and that is all that matters. Paying a guy 3.25m to recover 1.67m over 2 years doesn't make any sense. The dead money of 2.2m in 2015 is the amount the team saved in 2012 and 2013 with his smaller than normal cap charges. It has nothing to do with cutting him or pulling a Jay Ratliff. Every dollar saved against the cap early in a contract has to be eventually accounted for, but it is smarter to account for it in the future when the overall cap is larger. It's basic math.

Nice post, this should put the idea that this is anything like the Ratliff situation to bed permantly

 

[AsthmaField]

lol

They had to put him in though. Had they left him out, they just could have easily been left with egg on their face if he did show up for camp.

 

[burmafrd]

You know he has rust how?

hoss, that was weak even from you. What else do you call someone who has not done something in YEARS but RUSTY?