Cowboys draft grades range from B-C

[Rayman70]

Mike mayock didn't teach them enough lol

 

[atlantacowboy]

But it’s so crazy to me. We knock professional teams with professional scouts who interviews guys and they are calling these eye testers “experts” but don’t trust scouts on teams lol.

You do realize that football scouting is not an academic subject and their are no degrees. There is no measure of their "expertise". Only opinions. They don't have any more tape to watch than guys like Kiper and McShay. They all have the same measurable to look at. If anything, the pro draft gurus are more objective b/c they can independently evaluate a player without the biases of an NFL front office and coaching staff.

 

[Diehardblues]

But it’s so crazy to me. We knock professional teams with professional scouts who interviews guys and they are calling these eye testers “experts” but don’t trust scouts on teams lol.

I think you’re missing the point of these grades. It’s not grading the scouts analysis of talent or how talented the draft picks are. It’s more about the value of where we selected them in the draft.

The draft is more about the priorities of positions by front office and or coaching staff which scouts have no input. Their job is to provide analysis for the positions they are pursuing .

 

[MikeB80]

You do realize that football scouting is not an academic subject and their are no degrees. There is no measure of their "expertise". Only opinions. They don't have any more tape to watch than guys like Kiper and McShay. They all have the same measurable to look at. If anything, the pro draft gurus are more objective b/c they can independently evaluate a player without the biases of an NFL front office and coaching staff.

Most of the pro draft gurus as you call them also lack vital information. Health and injury concerns, Off the field/Criminal issues. That is why every year 3 or 4 guys who are projected as top prospects sit there all weekend. That is because the non team scout/guru guys usually only have the tape.

also most important, the non team guys are evaluating players just on who they are athletically and what they do. The teams take that same analysis and then apply it to how the guy fits their system/who they already have in the system and how they compare and whether or not they will actually be able to earn snaps in their systems.

the other things the teams have is knowledge on draft day. They know or get a sense of who is taking who and when, regular scout/guru guys have no clue they react to it...they do not have that info. That is why you see teams trading multiple picks to go up and maybe overdrafting guys because they know they wont make it to them. The Giants did this with banks and we see it all the time with QB's.

 

[Diehardblues]

You do realize that football scouting is not an academic subject and there are no degrees. There is no measure of their "expertise". Only opinions. They don't have any more tape to watch than guys like Kiper and McShay. They all have the same measurable to look at. If anything, the pro draft gurus are more objective b/c they can independently evaluate a player without the biases of an NFL front office and coaching staff.

I’d only add that theses scouts are also attending some games and practices for further detail of some players. Something these TV analyst don’t usually do.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You do realize that football scouting is not an academic subject and their are no degrees. There is no measure of their "expertise". Only opinions. They don't have any more tape to watch than guys like Kiper and McShay. They all have the same measurable to look at. If anything, the pro draft gurus are more objective b/c they can independently evaluate a player without the biases of an NFL front office and coaching staff.

ITs stuff they don't have. How many of these scouts do Kiper and McShay talk to? This is why people think guys like Jalen Carter and Randy Gregory are "steals" even though its right in front of you that you shouldn't take guys like this. But all they look at is tape.

Kiper and Mcshay aren't inviting these guys with top 30 visits. They aren't interviewing these guys. All they are doing is gauging what their "eye test" is and "eye test" said Jimmy Calusen was going to be a great player...or at least Kiper's eye test told him that.

I just think you're fooling yourself if you don't think Teams don't have a edge over these guys.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I’d only add that theses scouts are also attending some games and practices for further detail of some players. Something these TV analyst don’t usually do.

Exactly. Its no comparison. Its just what it is. Its why Mazi Smith is ranked 40 on their board but is #13 on the Cowboys.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Most of the pro draft gurus as you call them also lack vital information. Health and injury concerns, Off the field/Criminal issues. That is why every year 3 or 4 guys who are projected as top prospects sit there all weekend. That is because the non team scout/guru guys usually only have the tape.

also most important, the non team guys are evaluating players just on who they are athletically and what they do. The teams take that same analysis and then apply it to how the guy fits their system/who they already have in the system and how they compare and whether or not they will actually be able to earn snaps in their systems.

the other things the teams have is knowledge on draft day. They know or get a sense of who is taking who and when, regular scout/guru guys have no clue they react to it...they do not have that info. That is why you see teams trading multiple picks to go up and maybe overdrafting guys because they know they wont make it to them. The Giants did this with banks and we see it all the time with QB's.

Yep.....nobody had any idea why Nakobe Dean was falling...or Washington this year. There's stuff that isn't available to Kiper/Mcshay.

 

[Diehardblues]

But it’s so crazy to me. We knock professional teams with professional scouts who interviews guys and they are calling these eye testers “experts” but don’t trust scouts on teams lol.

Yea, it’s not an exact science. Great scouts find the diamonds in the ruff. Like Gil Brandt did from unknown schools and talents , etc.

You can’t always measure the size of a players heart. And some talents need to be developed.

But critiquing drafts aren’t directly knocking scouts or the talents themselves.

 

[Diehardblues]

Exactly. It’s no comparison. It’s just what it is. It’s why Mazi Smith is ranked 40 on their board but is #13 on the Cowboys.

In some Mocks we had Mazi as our 2nd round pick.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think you’re missing the point of these grades. It’s not grading the scouts analysis of talent or how talented the draft picks are. It’s more about the value of where we selected them in the draft.

The draft is more about the priorities of positions by front office and or coaching staff which scouts have no input. Their job is to provide analysis for the positions they are pursuing .

But that's my point. Who determines value? We are basing this on the consensus media picks right?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Yea, it’s not an exact science. Great scouts find the diamonds in the ruff. Like Gil Brandt did from unknown schools and talents , etc.

You can’t always measure the size of a players heart. And some talents need to be developed.

But critiquing drafts aren’t directly knocking scouts or the talents themselves.

My point is these "expert" picks aren't exactly "expert" picks they are opinions of guys who have the same information on these players as you and I do.

Its just a pet peeve of mind.

Don't take running back in the 1st round.

Bijan goes 8 and Gibbs goes 12.

So they are bad picks because they are running backs. Its just a flawed system and fans eat it up every year and determine how bad our draft is because guys had Fredericks as a 3rd rounder and the Cowboys took him in the 1st.

 

[Diehardblues]

But that's my point. Who determines value? We are basing this on the consensus media picks right?

Of course , it’s a broad stroke.

The bigger point is did we draft a bonifide 1st rounder or was this more of a 2nd round pick that we elevated over need?

Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It could definitely turn out fine. He may have turns out to be an early 2nd rounder which wouldn't have been as much of a stretch.

Players are often drafted higher out of need,especially QB’s.

 

[Diehardblues]

My point is these "expert" picks aren't exactly "expert" picks they are opinions of guys who have the same information on these players as you and I do.

Its just a pet peeve of mind.

Don't take running back in the 1st round.

Bijan goes 8 and Gibbs goes 12.

So they are bad picks because they are running backs. Its just a flawed system and fans eat it up every year and determine how bad our draft is because guys had Fredericks as a 3rd rounder and the Cowboys took him in the 1st.

Like I said it’s flawed, not a exact science. Some fans aren’t looking for these outside analysis and shouldn’t be interested in the discussion.

 

[ESisback]

Stephen Moore and other top local Cowboys beat writers were from B-C. Most of the national experts like Kiper graded B. Which isn’t bad .

The general consensus is we didn’t land an immediate impact player. I’m not saying I necessarily agree with all of these analysis but I would agree our 1st round pick must become more than a rotational player.
Time will tell but I’m always interested in what those closet who follow the Cowboys think.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/202...qtZQ-BCmRpKztbr2nlEC62ujEfrks&mibextid=q5o4bk

I think there would be massive griping no matter who they picked. I think it’s annoying/amusing, the number of people that think they’re more qualified than those immersed in it for a living. I trust McClay, McCarthy and Quinn, and I’m honestly optimistic that we’ll be better in 2023, provided that we stay relatively healthy. We have a good mix of veteran and youth, and lots of speed.

 

[Diehardblues]

ITs stuff they don't have. How many of these scouts do Kiper and McShay talk to? This is why people think guys like Jalen Carter and Randy Gregory are "steals" even though its right in front of you that you shouldn't take guys like this. But all they look at is tape.

Kiper and Mcshay aren't inviting these guys with top 30 visits. They aren't interviewing these guys. All they are doing is gauging what their "eye test" is and "eye test" said Jimmy Calusen was going to be a great player...or at least Kiper's eye test told him that.

I just think you're fooling yourself if you don't think Teams don't have an edge over these guys.

I agree. Scouts should be more knowledgeable or at least have more depth insight than TV personalities. But more so on the players they have been scouting.

If you’re on the road which these scouts are most of the time watching talent then you might not have as broad of view as you’ve been focusing on where your interest and priorities are.

 

[Diehardblues]

I think there would be massive griping no matter who they picked. I think it’s annoying/amusing, the number of people that think they’re more qualified than those immersed in it for a living. I trust McClay, McCarthy and Quinn, and I’m honestly optimistic that we’ll be better in 2023, provided that we stay relatively healthy. We have a good mix of veteran and youth, and lots of speed.

That’s great. And a nice optimistic overview . Then you’d really have no interest in critiquing or over analyzing the draft.
Go Cowboys!!

 

[atlantacowboy]

I’d only add that theses scouts are also attending some games and practices for further detail of some players. Something these TV analyst don’t usually do.

Kiper is not a tv analyst. He's a talent evaluator 365 days year and has been publishing his own draft guide since the mid 70's. There is nobody in todays NFL whose seen and evaluated more players.

 

[Diehardblues]

Kiper is not a tv analyst. He's a talent evaluator 365 days year and has been publishing his own draft guide since the mid 70's. There is nobody in todays NFL whose seen and evaluated more players.

Yea, I was making a broader statement on these other tv personalities not just Kiper who is no doubt the foremost expert in gathering information. Which doesn’t necessarily mean he has a better eye for talent.

 

[morasp]