Cowboys eyeing training camp for Zack Martin contract talks

[gmoney112]

For reference...

Zeitler signed this year for 5 years and $60 mil w. a little over 50% guaranteed ($12mil SB + first two years' base and $3.5 mil of base in year 3). This is the top Guard contract in the league.

y1'17 $6mil + $2.4mil SB
y2'18 $10mil + $2.4mil SB
y3'19 $10mil + $2.4mil SB
y4'20 $10mil + $2.4mil SB
y5'21 $10mil + $2.4mil SB​

Surprisingly straightforward but Cleveland has a ton of room and not much talent to keep.

Our recents...

• Frederick signed for 6 years and $56 mil w. 50% guaranteed.
• TSmith signed for 8 years and $97.6 mil w. 23% guaranteed.

A 6 year deal would take him to age 32-33 (Nov. bday). Surprisingly, there are only 2 Guards in the league age 33 and none older. I will bet Jones & Jones goes a million per year average more than Zeitler in exchange for a little more creative accounting and an extra year.

Good post, I had been meaning to look at those numbers but didn't want to look them up. Thanks.

So, they picked up his 5th year option, does this mean an extension takes effect in 2018? Or can they start year 1 this year? That'd help a lot, given Dak's eventual massive contract probably.

I think they could do 6 years 70 mill if they gave him 40 mill guaranteed. Front loaded a bit to take advantage of extra cap, and give us breathing room when Dak needs to be re-signed. It'll be interesting to see what they do with the Signing Bonus, are they going to keep it low like Frederick and just guarantee more in salary the first 1-2 years, or do a more typical 12-15 mill. Personally, my thinking is to keep as less as possible in future years because we'll need to re-sign Dak and young guys in a few years. For this year we know what we have basically, and we've got a little space next year anyway (if it takes effect next year then we'll have some significant rollover). I'd try and keep the Signing Bonus low and cram as much as I can in this year and next.

Signing Bonus 5 mill, try and clear 25 mill in Salary in Years 1 and 2, giving you 30mill guaranteed covered first two years. Guarantee a 10 million salary that vests in Year 3 during that March (like Travis).

That kinda depends though, if the extension doesn't start until 2018 then Dak's contract will be up in Year 3. In that case, honestly, and it sounds funny, but i'd just shove as much as humanly possible against the cap for Martin those first two years, it'd be obscene.. Get as much as we can off his contract early, because he's one guy I'm not worried about at all, before we have to start signing these young guys.

After Romo's gone, we're going to have like 17mill in cap this year, and even with Martin's 5th year option picked up (9 mill on 2018) and no extra room added to the cap yet, we're 13 mill under in 2018. That's with Crawford's contract too. Irving + Collins (La'el)are RFA I believe so that's good. So around 30 mill in cap in 2018 and just a crazy amount in 2019. Dak's contract is up after the 2019 season, we'll extend him that offseason so his cap will be on 2020. We'll need to make decisions on Irving, and La'el, and like Tapper or something but that's really kt.

I mean, why not just keep signing bonus minimal, pay him 18 mill in salary Years 1 (2018) and 2 (2019), with like a 4 mill signing bonus? Then you just just average out 30mill over 4 years however they think they're going to structure future contracts. Given the talent and contracts on the team over the next few years, it makes sense to me. You can always restructure if you really want somebody in FA. Tyron, Travis, Martin, could all do it.

I think they'll end up doing it a little more traditionally, but i'm really interested to see how much they put into those first two years. It just makes too much sense.

 

[DFWJC]

LOL!

 

[DFWJC]

 

[WillieBeamen]

What's your deal?

Some of the stuff in your post was downright unnecessary and egregious.

It is laughable and tiring at the same time, reading the slander thrown at Dez on this site. Only a fool can say with a straight face that Dez didn't deserve that contract at the time he signed it. Look at these articles during the summer before Dez got his deal:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ant-or-antonio-brown-best-receiver-in-the-nfl

https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/07/30/position-rankings-wide-receivers-dez-bryant-antonio-brown

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2015...nt-how-does-he-compare-vs-the-all-time-greats

Dez also had a better 3 year span in terms of wr production than any Cowboys receiver ever has


Dez wasn't worth the money?

Demaryius Thomas signed a 5 year $70 million contract with $43.5m guaranteed right after Dez signed a 5 year $70 million contract with $45m guaranteed

Let's compare their numbers:

Dez Bryant (2010-2014)
381 Catches
5424 yards
14.2 yrds per catch
56 TDs

Demaryius Thomas (2010-2014)
351 catches
5317 yards
15.1 yards per catch
41 TDs


Only Cowboys could be unappreciative of an elite player in his prime

Ask other fan bases what they think of Dez Bryant (on the field play only)

 

[dallasdave]

Those guys are funny !!!

 

[Leadbelly]

Good post, I had been meaning to look at those numbers but didn't want to look them up. Thanks.

So, they picked up his 5th year option, does this mean an extension takes effect in 2018? Or can they start year 1 this year? That'd help a lot, given Dak's eventual massive contract probably.

I think they could do 6 years 70 mill if they gave him 40 mill guaranteed. Front loaded a bit to take advantage of extra cap, and give us breathing room when Dak needs to be re-signed. It'll be interesting to see what they do with the Signing Bonus, are they going to keep it low like Frederick and just guarantee more in salary the first 1-2 years, or do a more typical 12-15 mill. Personally, my thinking is to keep as less as possible in future years because we'll need to re-sign Dak and young guys in a few years. For this year we know what we have basically, and we've got a little space next year anyway (if it takes effect next year then we'll have some significant rollover). I'd try and keep the Signing Bonus low and cram as much as I can in this year and next.

Signing Bonus 5 mill, try and clear 25 mill in Salary in Years 1 and 2, giving you 30mill guaranteed covered first two years. Guarantee a 10 million salary that vests in Year 3 during that March (like Travis).

That kinda depends though, if the extension doesn't start until 2018 then Dak's contract will be up in Year 3. In that case, honestly, and it sounds funny, but i'd just shove as much as humanly possible against the cap for Martin those first two years, it'd be obscene.. Get as much as we can off his contract early, because he's one guy I'm not worried about at all, before we have to start signing these young guys.

After Romo's gone, we're going to have like 17mill in cap this year, and even with Martin's 5th year option picked up (9 mill on 2018) and no extra room added to the cap yet, we're 13 mill under in 2018. That's with Crawford's contract too. Irving + Collins (La'el)are RFA I believe so that's good. So around 30 mill in cap in 2018 and just a crazy amount in 2019. Dak's contract is up after the 2019 season, we'll extend him that offseason so his cap will be on 2020. We'll need to make decisions on Irving, and La'el, and like Tapper or something but that's really kt.

I mean, why not just keep signing bonus minimal, pay him 18 mill in salary Years 1 (2018) and 2 (2019), with like a 4 mill signing bonus? Then you just just average out 30mill over 4 years however they think they're going to structure future contracts. Given the talent and contracts on the team over the next few years, it makes sense to me. You can always restructure if you really want somebody in FA. Tyron, Travis, Martin, could all do it.

I think they'll end up doing it a little more traditionally, but i'm really interested to see how much they put into those first two years. It just makes too much sense.

I'm pretty sure the 5th year is only guaranteed for injury, so it is easily discarded in instances of contract extension situations. Maybe it becomes fully guaranteed once the 2018 season starts. I'm not sure. Right now though, they can scrap it to replace it with a better deal.

Looking at other first rounders who have re-upped with their team, some have scrapped the final non-option year. The first four years on a rookie deal are fully guaranteed though. I would imagine this year's remaining base of $1,6 mil guaranteed can just be built into the new bigger contract. If Dallas wanted to front load it some, they could. If the contract was 6 years for $70 mil, it would essentially be $68.4 mil + $1.6 mil carried over from the 2017 year.

- -

La'el Collins should be interesting. There may be a gentlemen's agreement between him and Jerry that enabled Dallas to get him here. He wasn't drafted, so typically the team would have to put a high tender on him to scare off other teams. La'el might have said he'd sign here on the condition that he wouldn't get tendered.

Additionally, it looks like he'll be our RT this year. That's potentially a big jump up in pay from LG. If he looks really good in camp, Dallas might want to sign him up this preseason before he puts good tape up for teams to see. Wait and signing him could be real tough.

- -

Complicating the contracts in 2019/20 is the CBA is set to expire after the 2020 season. The tv contracts are coming up also, in the midst of cable subscriptions cratering. There could be a work stoppage. The team might utilize a Franchise and/or Transition tag just to avoid locking themselves into a long term contract before it's clear what a future CBA looks like.

 

[diefree666]

I'm pretty sure the 5th year is only guaranteed for injury, so it is easily discarded in instances of contract extension situations. Maybe it becomes fully guaranteed once the 2018 season starts. I'm not sure. Right now though, they can scrap it to replace it with a better deal.

Looking at other first rounders who have re-upped with their team, some have scrapped the final non-option year. The first four years on a rookie deal are fully guaranteed though. I would imagine this year's remaining base of $1,6 mil guaranteed can just be built into the new bigger contract. If Dallas wanted to front load it some, they could. If the contract was 6 years for $70 mil, it would essentially be $68.4 mil + $1.6 mil carried over from the 2017 year.

- -

La'el Collins should be interesting. There may be a gentlemen's agreement between him and Jerry that enabled Dallas to get him here. He wasn't drafted, so typically the team would have to put a high tender on him to scare off other teams. La'el might have said he'd sign here on the condition that he wouldn't get tendered.

Additionally, it looks like he'll be our RT this year. That's potentially a big jump up in pay from LG. If he looks really good in camp, Dallas might want to sign him up this preseason before he puts good tape up for teams to see. Wait and signing him could be real tough.

- -

Complicating the contracts in 2019/20 is the CBA is set to expire after the 2020 season. The tv contracts are coming up also, in the midst of cable subscriptions cratering. There could be a work stoppage. The team might utilize a Franchise and/or Transition tag just to avoid locking themselves into a long term contract before it's clear what a future CBA looks like.

There are plenty of examples over the years of guards and centers playing into their late 30's and doing very well. So Martin might not think he needs to drain every drop this contract. Just enough more than Zeitler to make a difference.

Collins - this is the year we need to make the decision on. Trying him out at RT would tell us a lot. If he shows he can do it well it would be smart to do his deal right after the season ends.

As regards the Cap for the next 3 years it seems it will go up pretty good. Probably 10 mil a year.

HOWEVER after that I am thinking it will pretty much be stagnant. The advertiser revenue for the networks has pretty much stopped going up; and in some cases is decreasing. Now the NFL is the best deal there is so we will feel the pinch last but I doubt the next contract will be a big raise. So we need to make hay will the sun shines. Get our big deals done in the next three years. If DAK shows that last year was NOT a fluke I would be looking at doing a deal with him after the 2017 season. It will be cheaper then waiting another year. Use these three years to pay down the future cap costs as much as we can.

 

[JoeKing]

This is the guy Nate Newton keeps calling the president because he owns his position. I don't know how much sense that makes, I just remember we had a thread about that a while back. He'll get his pay day after June 1st.

 

[kumizi]

Good bet? He will shatter it.

I really hope not. Love Martin and we need him but not at a number that would "shatter" the Zeitler contract.

 

[Verdict]

Some of the stuff in your post was downright unnecessary and egregious.

It is laughable and tiring at the same time, reading the slander thrown at Dez on this site. Only a fool can say with a straight face that Dez didn't deserve that contract at the time he signed it. Look at these articles during the summer before Dez got his deal:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ant-or-antonio-brown-best-receiver-in-the-nfl

https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/07/30/position-rankings-wide-receivers-dez-bryant-antonio-brown

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2015...nt-how-does-he-compare-vs-the-all-time-greats

Dez also had a better 3 year span in terms of wr production than any Cowboys receiver ever has


Dez wasn't worth the money?

Demaryius Thomas signed a 5 year $70 million contract with $43.5m guaranteed right after Dez signed a 5 year $70 million contract with $45m guaranteed

Let's compare their numbers:

Dez Bryant (2010-2014)
381 Catches
5424 yards
14.2 yrds per catch
56 TDs

Demaryius Thomas (2010-2014)
351 catches
5317 yards
15.1 yards per catch
41 TDs


Only Cowboys could be unappreciative of an elite player in his prime

Ask other fan bases what they think of Dez Bryant (on the field play only)

You are arguing your opinion. I respect your opinion. But I don't view Dez the same way you do. Variety is the spice of life.

I didn't think Dez was worth the money when we signed him to his huge contract. I personally believe the best we could have hoped for when Dez signed his contract was that either the market would catch up with his value or he played out of his mind above the level he was playing at before he signed his contract and was worth what the contract price.

The most likely scenario was that we over paid him. It turns out It looks like that is going to be the case. Maybe that will turn around. So far it's not really even close.

Having blind homerism over Dez is fine if that's how you want to view the world. I just don't see any point in viewing the contract that way.