News: Cowboys' FA strategy taking shape with pursuit of R McClain and Mo Claiborne

[ElGatoGrande]

Bottom line, this team needs one of almost everything so they will have to settle on a few roster spots being manned by long shots or JAGs.

 

[Chuck 54]

Only we would "pursue" these two

silly....they will both play somewhere...guaranteed.

 

[BigStar]

That's so far from true. Mo is a serviceable CB in this league as much as fans here don't think so

In the zone scheme Marinelli has said he wants to run as he did as DC with the Bears? Just why cling to a man corner...for any reason? bite your lip and let go already. Same to McClain. Status quo and Marinelli's Cover 1 man D (working with what he had) created the least TOs in the league.

 

[conner01]

In the zone scheme Marinelli has said he wants to run as he did as DC with the Bears? Just why cling to a man corner...for any reason? bite your lip and let go already. Same to McClain. Status quo and Marinelli's Cover 1 man D (working with what he had) created the least TOs in the league.

One very good reason to hang on is so you can cut the much more expensive Carr
You can't play with no CB and you don't want to go into the draft forced to take a CB
I'm wanting to add a CB in the draft if the opportunity is there and I think it will be but don't want to have to take one just to have enough to play

 

[BigStar]

One very good reason to hang on is so you can cut the much more expensive Carr
You can't play with no CB and you don't want to go into the draft forced to take a CB
I'm wanting to add a CB in the draft if the opportunity is there and I think it will be but don't want to have to take one just to have enough to play

I would prefer let both go and go with zone corners mentioned (Heyward/Hosley) by @texbumthelife as mid tier replacements not forcing you to draft CB high. Zone CBs are generally cheaper in FA and go later in the draft as well. Scan, Heyward, Hosley, draft pick (hopefully in 4-5 range if its fits BPA)/Mitchell and Otaye (ideally; picking up both FAs or others who fit zone schemes).

SS is a more important issue now (cutting Church; just too slow to cover modern TEs/Wrs/Rbs but is your ideal 3rd S but he's being paid starter money, etc.) with Jones confirmed to be the full time FS (packages excluded) and Church's replacement should be more in the "talks" than it currently is. Status quo is not working with either and unfortunately for Mo, he played well last season but in a converted scheme by need; man cover 1/2 that didn't do well in TO department,

Marinellie got by as DC in CHI by having zone coverage and pass rush to cause TOs. We had two man corners the last 2 season (outside of Scan can adapt to zone play bc of his smarts/athleticism) and bad S play outside of Jone's potential @ FS.

 

[conner01]

I would prefer let both go and go with zone corners mentioned (Heyward/Hosley) by @texbumthelife as mid tier replacements not forcing you to draft CB high. Zone CBs are generally cheaper in FA and go later in the draft as well. Scan, Heyward, Hosley, draft pick (hopefully in 4-5 range if its fits BPA)/Mitchell and Otaye (ideally; picking up both FAs or others who fit zone schemes).

SS is a more important issue now (cutting Church; just too slow to cover modern TEs/Wrs/Rbs but is your ideal 3rd S but he's being paid starter money, etc.) with Jones confirmed to be the full time FS (packages excluded) and Church's replacement should be more in the "talks" than it currently is. Status quo is not working with either and unfortunately for Mo, he played well last season but in a converted scheme by need; man cover 1/2 that didn't do well in TO department,

Marinellie got by as DC in CHI by having zone coverage and pass rush to cause TOs. We had two man corners the last 2 season (outside of Scan can adapt to zone play bc of his smarts/athleticism) and bad S play outside of Jone's potential @ FS.

The problem is who will actually be availible and what will they cost
I know many don't believe it but teams have a pretty good idea of what the market is going to be and if you are paying Carr money for a mod tier CB are you helping yourself

 

[BigStar]

The problem is who will actually be availible and what will they cost
I know many don't believe it but teams have a pretty good idea of what the market is going to be and if you are paying Carr money for a mod tier CB are you helping yourself

As far as I was led to believe, Heyward and Hosley wouldn't be anywhere near Carr money and you get corners that fit your scheme. Cut/let go of the unfit players (Carr/Clai) and go FA/draft route as zone corners aren't demanding anywhere near avg. FA corner starter money (not 1st tier FAs like Jenkins/Johnson, Norman, etc.). Keeping Carr in anyway form (new players signing similar; Norman/Jenkins, or current turd (Carr) is a big mistake, pay cut or not)

 

[conner01]

As far as I was led to believe, Heyward and Hosley wouldn't be anywhere near Carr money and you get corners that fit your scheme. Cut/let go of the unfit players (Carr/Clai) and go FA/draft route as zone corners aren't demanding anywhere near avg. FA corner starter money (not 1st tier FAs like Jenkins/Johnson, Norman, etc.). Keeping Carr in anyway form (new players signing similar; Norman/Jenkins, or current turd (Carr) is a big mistake, pay cut or not)

I would certainly cute Carr but I'm not so sure cb's are gonna be much cheaper with any talent but we shall see
I wouldn't be opposed to a Johnson or Jenkins if they hit the market even if they cost as much as Carr but not sure they will hit the market and could even be higher. Just have to see the market
If you look at cb's last year, take out the top 5 who were either elite or thought to be, the next tier made 5 to 6 mil a year and it will be higher this year with the rise in cap space. That's what I'm looking at. I'm all for replacing both if you can but hard to know if you can till past the time you have to make a decision on them is the issue

 

[CCBoy]

In the zone scheme Marinelli has said he wants to run as he did as DC with the Bears? Just why cling to a man corner...for any reason? bite your lip and let go already. Same to McClain. Status quo and Marinelli's Cover 1 man D (working with what he had) created the least TOs in the league.

Status quo is a bad comparative value...that would include also, Sean Lee. I hardly think he is responsible for any accountability issues...based upon last season.

 

[CCBoy]

As far as I was led to believe, Heyward and Hosley wouldn't be anywhere near Carr money and you get corners that fit your scheme. Cut/let go of the unfit players (Carr/Clai) and go FA/draft route as zone corners aren't demanding anywhere near avg. FA corner starter money (not 1st tier FAs like Jenkins/Johnson, Norman, etc.). Keeping Carr in anyway form (new players signing similar; Norman/Jenkins, or current turd (Carr) is a big mistake, pay cut or not)

With Carr, one has to also value what is being lost in cap money, by not keeping him. He's not a leadership problem or ineffective as well.

With Claiborne, the team can show him cap debt with Carr based upon over payment for services...and Claiborne had at least listen.

 

[ak47kaehu]

Yes to Ro no to Mo.

 

[BigStar]

Status quo is a bad comparative value...that would include also, Sean Lee. I hardly think he is responsible for any accountability issues...based upon last season.

Sean Lee had one year where he stayed healthy for the most part. That's like saying the O sucked, and the team would cut Martin bc of their ranking?

 

[BigStar]

With Carr, one has to also value what is being lost in cap money, by not keeping him. He's not a leadership problem or ineffective as well.

With Claiborne, the team can show him cap debt with Carr based upon over payment for services...and Claiborne had at least listen.

BC they both don't fit this zone scheme that produced terrible results in passing D last season? Neither should be retained for that reason alone...we can find zone corners in FA/draft. Cut bait with the bad investments already.

 

[BigStar]

I would certainly cute Carr but I'm not so sure cb's are gonna be much cheaper with any talent but we shall see
I wouldn't be opposed to a Johnson or Jenkins if they hit the market even if they cost as much as Carr but not sure they will hit the market and could even be higher. Just have to see the market
If you look at cb's last year, take out the top 5 who were either elite or thought to be, the next tier made 5 to 6 mil a year and it will be higher this year with the rise in cap space. That's what I'm looking at. I'm all for replacing both if you can but hard to know if you can till past the time you have to make a decision on them is the issue

I see the top tier (Jenkins/Johnson/Norton if available) getting top dollars, not the Heywards and Hoselys of FA (@texbumthelife . Even then, do what is right and cut bait with a bad investment and man corner who has been stealing from JJ since he got here (he wasn't effective in the 12-4 D either. I hear we can do whatever we want? This is the Dallas PR feeling out the fan-base on retaining these bad investments, etc. and some are buying into it (in general and not aimed at you specifically ,etc.).

 

[CCBoy]

BC they both don't fit this zone scheme that produced terrible results in passing D last season? Neither should be retained for that reason alone...we can find zone corners in FA/draft. Cut bait with the bad investments already.

This one I disagree with...Dallas needs them both. Add a good cornerback via the draft, and the team is even better.

Even add a FA CB and I'm happier...

 

[BigStar]

This one I disagree with...Dallas needs them both. Add a good cornerback via the draft, and the team is even better.

Even add a FA CB and I'm happier...

You think Mo and Carr are zone corners? Scan is the only CB confirmed to have the flexibility to play both coverages; effectively anyway. Last season, they resorted to mostly to man cover 1/2 with zone sprinkled in. We had no TOs bc Marinelli changed his scheme to fit the players but the players proved average at best.

 

[CCBoy]

You think Mo and Carr are zone corners? Scan is the only CB confirmed to have the flexibility to play both coverages; effectively anyway. Last season, they resorted to mostly to man cover 1/2 with zone sprinkled in. We had no TOs bc Marinelli changed his scheme to fit the players but the players proved average at best.

I think they would make for a pretty strong secondary. Add another good cornerback, and yea, this group could be a strength. No, they both are not dysfunctional in a variety of job descriptions.

I'm anxious to see how the linebackers integrate now, with a passing game defensive coordinator for the back half.

How really consistent was this group burned deep? Add some more sacks then maybe check again for turn overs.

 

[BigStar]

I think they would make for a pretty strong secondary. Add another good cornerback, and yea, this group could be a strength. No, they both are not dysfunctional in a variety of job descriptions.

I'm anxious to see how the linebackers integrate now, with a passing game defensive coordinator for the back half.

Agree to disagree on that theory.

 

[CCBoy]

Agree to disagree on that theory.

Fair, but Jones will add to a top umbrella..

 

[BigStar]

Fair, but Jones will add to a top umbrella..

Jones is a great asset no doubt and has the speed and athleticism to play both zone and man coverage if needed. If we're playing the scheme he wants and mirror his success in CHI as a DC, who relied on pass rush and zone coverage to produce TOs we need to let go of Carr and Mo. Last season Marinelli admitted to scheming around his player's "assets; man coverage". They "schemed to average talent" and the schemes displayed last year that resulted in collapses.

If they are going to Man D as a primary coverage, they need to add a top player outside of 1st round bc we need a QB or go to FA. If they do add a top man corner like Norman/Johnson in FA to solidify their position as a Man D Defense, that would be one thing, but Mo/Carr both have proven to be average even in opps in man schemes (last season = no TOs).

Pass rush may be able to hide Mo/Carr not ideally fitting the scheme, but why stick to proven average status quo?