Cowboys going old school?

Verdict

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,230
Reaction score
20,501
No, you never have to overpay but if you don't want Alan Ball starting you have to overpay a FA to fill that void. The trick to keep drafting Anthony Browns so you are never backed into the corner of having to choose between those two options.


Right. You can overpay for marginal talent, or pay less for worse talent, or get a bargain in free agency when players are fighting to get on a team late in the process. Of course drafting a good player to replace them is the best option, if need lines up with BPA.
 

gmoney112

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,589
Reaction score
15,694
People think you can just draft every player on your team and win championships.

No, you can't. FA is 50% of the offseason. Like anything else, you have to be smart about it. Most of the time FA is for getting over the hump, or putting butts in the seats. Or even just addressing a serious need so you don't have to reach in the draft.

Next year, with a ton of cap, will be the time to decide if we truly ignore high priced FA's. If there's a player available that addresses a huge need and may get us over the hump, then they probably will, and should, sign him. (See Hardy signing. Just don't sign an idiot)

And saying QB's don't need chemistry with their WR's is pretty weird. Of course they do. I expect Dak/Dez to be better next season, as should everyone.
 

Verdict

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,230
Reaction score
20,501
ratliff.jpg

I think it was pretty clear that Jerry felt snake bitten when he gave Jay Ratliff a new contract, he basically refused to play and he got paid big $$$ for it anyway. Combine that with the big $$$ we gave Marion Barber and Ware and they didn't come anywhere close to the value that he paid for, that was when he finally turned on free agency. Barber and Ware just happened, but it really got stuck in Jerry's craw about the Ratliff deal. And that's when we saw us generally negotiate much tougher on deals with our own players and shy away from FA pickups.

I'm sure Stephen has had an influence as well. I think the entire 'Jerry was picking up the draft card to get Manziel' was merely Jerry and Stephen joking around and Peter King was either too stupid to catch on or too busy throwing his 6th hot dog down his gullet to comprehend.

However, the point was clear that Jerry started to believe more in Stephen's theory on the team.

Yup, we did sign Greg Hardy in FA...but that was more of a 'pay-for-play' type of deal and we could get out of it quickly.


Another thing that happened was the entire Sharrif Floyd mess. The scouts wanted Floyd because they had him graded the highest. However, Marinelli didn't want Floyd (and neither did Garrett, don't listen to the nonsense...Garrett wanted who Rod wanted and Garrett also badly wanted a center). This caused a riff between the scouts and Jerry, but it really was an embarrassing moment for the organization. Tom Ciskowski had taken over for Jeff Ireland and while Ireland got all of this praise while in Dallas (again, showing how overrated the GM position is in the NFL)...Ireland's job was to basically coordinate the efforts between the scouts, assistant coaches, Garrett and the Jones'. For Ciskowski to miss such a glaring point about Floyd, it was a poorly done job.

Fortunately, we made the right move and getting arguably the best center in the game. But afterward, that is when Will McClay took over Ciskowski's job and we put Ciskowski more where he belongs in charge of the scouts.

And I think Jerry has over time bought into Garrett's philosophy of developing a 'program' much like a college football 'program.' A few NFL teams have a 'program' in place. You know what you're going to get with the Patriots...a well coached, boring team that cheats. You know with the Steelers you're going to get a tough defense and players that block and tackle well. Soft WR's don't make it on the Steelers. Defensive players that don't tackle well don't last long in Pittsburgh. There's also a great consistency in their coaching staffs as far as staffs go.

Garrett has been very much about the role that assistant coaches play and their ability to coach players up...from the UDFA rookie to the 10+ year veteran that is a multi-time All Pro performer. They will be coached if they are with the team.

For all of Garrett's faults (and he has quite a few of them), he has a very valuable strength...he has created an environment that has consistently developed talent.

The problem with FA's is that they may have already been predisposed to a different coach's style of coaching and techniques and it may be too hard to break them of those habits. I'm sure Garrett feels he is generally better off drafting a player and molding them the way the organization wants to mold the player.

Our entire starting offense was home grown last season. Our defense OTOH had numerous FA's. You're always going to need some FA's, but more often than not you don't get the production that you're paying for in the end. And Day 1 or Day 2 FA's are notorious for being poor value signings.


I think if you're relying on FA's...then you're just not doing a good job of coaching in whatever area you're bringing in those FA's. We've brought in and struggled with defensive back FA's and the fact was it was long overdue to get rid of Jerome Henderson because he wasn't doing the job. We tried our hand at O-Line FA's and they constantly failed and the reality is that Hudson Houck didn't have it anymore as Bill Callahan got more out of Doug Free and Ron Leary than any Houck O-Lineman we brought in.

Of course, you have to give the coaches a chance and bring in the occasional high draft pick for them to work with, but by the same token a coach should be able to pull some production out of low draft picks or UDFA's as well.

So, it's really as simple as that...build primarily thru the draft and if one area of the team is consistently weak...find a new assistant because the current coach isn't getting the job done.

YR

This is an excellent post. I agree with the general premise of most of it. Although I am sure that the MBIII contract and Ratliff contract (you could add Orton to the list as well) really pissed Jerry off, but I don't know if they taught Jerry much since he turned right around and over paid for Dez Bryant. I hope that the organization learned something from it.

I do believe that Brandon Carr's contract burned them back from free agency. I agree that Hardy's contract really doesn't conflict with that premise because it was a pay for play contract.

Very good post overall, YR.
 

Kaiser

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,628
Reaction score
28,430
If you don't think that Dak's ball security helped him hold on to the job over Romo I really don't think you are looking at reality.

There were a lot of reasons Prescott remained the starter but INTs isn't one of them. The transition to the next Franchise QB, Health and injury concerns, "Ain't broke, don't fix it", long term cap ramifications, etc.

Dak having 4 INTs this year to Romo having 9 in his last season - in a season where Dallas scored more points - isn't one of them.
 

Alexander

What's it going to be then, eh?
Messages
62,482
Reaction score
67,294
There were a lot of reasons Prescott remained the starter but INTs isn't one of them. The transition to the next Franchise QB, Health and injury concerns, "Ain't broke, don't fix it", long term cap ramifications, etc.

Dak having 4 INTs this year to Romo having 9 in his last season isn't one of them.
You can't discount the fact that he was pretty good at avoiding turnovers as a reason he kept starting.

Had he had a stinker of a game turnover wise, the clamoring to start Romo late in the season is much louder.

When you have a rookie who does not turn the ball over, it is rare.
 

Verdict

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,230
Reaction score
20,501
There were a lot of reasons Prescott remained the starter but INTs isn't one of them. The transition to the next Franchise QB, Health and injury concerns, "Ain't broke, don't fix it", long term cap ramifications, etc.

Dak having 4 INTs this year to Romo having 9 in his last season - in a season where Dallas scored more points - isn't one of them.


If you think that if Dak had thrown many more interceptions (and likely lost games as a result) it wouldn't have been a factor in deciding whether to give Romo his job back we are not in agreement on that issue.
 

Verdict

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,230
Reaction score
20,501
You can't discount the fact that he was pretty good at avoiding turnovers as a reason he kept starting.

Had he had a stinker of a game turnover wise, the clamoring to start Romo late in the season is much louder.

When you have a rookie who does not turn the ball over, it is rare.

It is a primary reason for him remaining the starter. Everything else would a lot different if he had 15 turnovers last year.
 

StarBoyz83

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,434
Reaction score
11,978
It's a good idea. It just sucks they haven't been good at drafting defensive players or they wouldnt need so much help.
 

DandyDon52

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,791
Reaction score
16,660
last year dallas did good in the draft, but # 4 position and # 28 are different.
It will be much harder to get good players this draft.

I think that is why NE traded all their picks for players, they were # 32.
So is NE doing the right thing this year? or is Dallas who kept all their picks?

I think Dallas thinks they now can draft every year like last year.
No FA or trading they are just gonna draft.
Only time will tell.
 

conner01

Well-Known Member
Messages
28,971
Reaction score
26,613
I believe we could be more active if we wanted to, we just don't feel it's the right route to go to have long term success.

The Patriots are on another level with cap management, typically they are timid in free agency but this year they made some splashes. Besides the Patriots, the other two teams that have continued playoff success every year would be the Packers and Steelers. Both of those teams have been very timid in free agency. Sure they may make a move every now and then, but they don't rely on spending big money in free agency for their team upgrades.
I agree we could be more aggressive but the league as a whole I think see free agents are so high and the actual talent being way over paid for what you get, that more teams will look to the draft. Some teams are good at it, some are not. We've done a decent job of building with the draft but some teams draft in the top 10 every year and can't build a team
 

lukin2006

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,968
Reaction score
19,293
I like FA signings of a top notch splashy signing if this defense was only a player away from being legit...in the cowboys case, this D is more than 1 player away being legit...
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,202
Reaction score
64,709
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Prior to free agency every team built their team through the draft. There were a lot more than seven rounds and no no free agency so you either built the team with draft picks or you sucked.

Now teams have become a lot more reliant on free agents to fill holes that 7 draft picks can't/won't fill. Free agency has become a high priced crap shoot with high priced/high risk lower reward players for the most part.

There is no doubt that the Cowboys have been avoiding the upper tier over priced free agents ever since the Brandon Carr signing several years ago. Whether they learned their lesson, just don't have the money or it is some other reason is somewhat irrelevant because the result is the same.

But the Cowboys of late seem to be taking this one step farther than even we thought they might. We resigned Williams and Butler to team friendly deals, and may by looking internally for a replacement through our practice squad.

We really seem Hell bent on not bringing in new free agents. We have been working on turning Showers into a safety. We have let many players walk which I know was the plan, but I really didn't see us refusing to plug any holes with free agency.

Maybe they will wait until after the draft to plug hoes with even cheaper free agents cut after the draft has been completed. Again, I knew this was the plan to let guys walk, but they seem to be taking it much farther than I thought they would in resigning free agents to replace the players lost.

The question I have internally is whether or not this signals a new way of thinking internally. Is this salary cap driven, a lack of talent in free agency, comp pick driven, or just situational due to what is on the market this year.

This is definitely different than any year in recent memory. .

They did it last year and ended up with 13 wins. That's a big incentive to do it again.
 

haleyrules

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,060
Reaction score
42,877
last year dallas did good in the draft, but # 4 position and # 28 are different.
It will be much harder to get good players this draft.

I think that is why NE traded all their picks for players, they were # 32.
So is NE doing the right thing this year? or is Dallas who kept all their picks?

I think Dallas thinks they now can draft every year like last year.
No FA or trading they are just gonna draft.
Only time will tell.
Yep. Tough call. I like what NE did. They picked up young players also...just starting their upswing. Great strategy.
 

Nightman

Capologist
Messages
27,121
Reaction score
24,038
You can't discount the fact that he was pretty good at avoiding turnovers as a reason he kept starting.

Had he had a stinker of a game turnover wise, the clamoring to start Romo late in the season is much louder.

When you have a rookie who does not turn the ball over, it is rare.
Like Nick Foles
 

big dog cowboy

THE BIG DOG
Staff member
Messages
101,912
Reaction score
112,913
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
The question I have internally is whether or not this signals a new way of thinking internally. Is this salary cap driven, a lack of talent in free agency, comp pick driven, or just situational due to what is on the market this year.

This is definitely different than any year in recent memory. .
The trade for WR Roy Williams and the FA signing of Carr clearly has had a major impact on the Cowboys thinking.
 

Derinyar

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,231
Reaction score
959
Yep. Tough call. I like what NE did. They picked up young players also...just starting their upswing. Great strategy.
They are at a little different of a spot also. They are at the very end of a great QB's career, so I can see the idea of keeping on loading up while you have Brady because it might go lean after he goes. Get actualized talent as opposed to potential to try and make that last run or two. Personally, I think we would be thinking the same if Romo was still the QB and I'm not sure we'd be wrong in that situation.
 

Yakuza Rich

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,043
Reaction score
12,385
This is an excellent post. I agree with the general premise of most of it. Although I am sure that the MBIII contract and Ratliff contract (you could add Orton to the list as well) really pissed Jerry off, but I don't know if they taught Jerry much since he turned right around and over paid for Dez Bryant. I hope that the organization learned something from it.

I do believe that Brandon Carr's contract burned them back from free agency. I agree that Hardy's contract really doesn't conflict with that premise because it was a pay for play contract.

Very good post overall, YR.

The overpayment of Dez is hindsight being 20/20. His contract was exactly the value he was on the open market and if he didn't get injured he would have likely kept performing at a similar rate as he was from 2012-2014. He was 27 years old at the time the new contract was signed and was right in the middle of his prime years.

Ratliff, Ware and Barber were all considered likely past their primes or on the downswing of their prime. Their contracts made less sense than Dez's and were more than they would get on the open market and it burned the Cowboys.

I don't think the Orton deal really bothered him. The guy almost never played because Romo didn't get injured. And when he did play, he played pretty well albeit for 1 game.

I forgot about Carr. He's an example of the problem with free agents...if you switch coaches and change scheme, that player may no longer fit in that scheme. Although that occurred the say time that Ratliff got the contract extension and I still think that the Ratliff deal left a very sour taste in Jerry's mouth. Can't really blame him...the guy took his money and faked an injury so he wouldn't have to play and did it with no recourse.




YR
 
Top