Signed by Cowboys Cowboys hire Brian Schottenheimer as Offensive Coordinator

CowboyFrog

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I think the OL is solid at best, the skill positions are mediocre and the QB is trash.

Yet the offense produced. Hence my stance on the coordinator.

This isn't complicated.
QB trash doesnt net the 2nd ranked offense in the NFL....you dont have to think Dak is good but the offense was not good inspite of the QB, its not possible over that many games. You can want an upgrade at QB, hell I want one at every position we can get, but with your logic Plugging in your idea of a "Good" QB would have netted the most prolific offense in history...that doesnt seem likley.
 

Haimerej

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No and really what the OC did with Rush is more Praise from me than anything as only an ego maniac (there are plenty of these coaches) plugs Rush in and tries to run the same offense.. so i give KM kudo's for that. My point was simply saying dont use the #2 offense trump card for the OC and tell me it was inspite of the QB. I also do believe it was time for KM to go and for no other reason than Dak can not go right now so something had to give to have a shot at moving forward.
I'll say it was in spite of the QB. Anyone who can take a guy with Dak's limitations to that kind of production deserves praise.
 

CowboyFrog

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I'll say it was in spite of the QB. Anyone who can take a guy with Dak's limitations to that kind of production deserves praise.
And again then what your saying is with what you see as a "Good" QB in this same offense would have produced historical offensive numbers..Ill again say that doesnt seem likley.
 

Haimerej

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And again then what your saying is with what you see as a "Good" QB in this same offense would have produced historical offensive numbers..Ill again say that doesnt seem likley.
Rank Dak and then tell me the guys you have above him wouldn't be more productive. There's a reason he's led that productive offense and people still debate if he's top 10 or not.
 

CowboyFrog

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Rank Dak and then tell me the guys you have above him wouldn't be more productive. There's a reason he's led that productive offense and people still debate if he's top 10 or not.
Thats not the argument, again i too would upgrade the QB if we could, what is being said is KM led the #2 offense inspite of the QB play.. not likley the QB had alot to do with why it was ranked #2. Could we have better QB play, for sure opinions vary on what that number would be... but if i use the logic the QB was hurting the #2 offense then logic dictates that if a QB came in and just played well the numbers go up and if a good QB comes in and lifts the #2 offense the numbers go way up.. and again that just doesnt seem likley.
 

Haimerej

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Thats not the argument, again i too would upgrade the QB if we could, what is being said is KM led the #2 offense inspite of the QB play.. not likley the QB had alot to do with why it was ranked #2. Could we have better QB play, for sure opinions vary on what that number would be... but if i use the logic the QB was hurting the #2 offense then logic dictates that if a QB came in and just played well the numbers go up and if a good QB comes in and lifts the #2 offense the numbers go way up.. and again that just doesnt seem likley.
At the same time, you acknowledge Dak isn't great. So it seems to me if you can recognize he's not the most talented, you have to account for the production. If it's not talent, it's gotta be scheme.
 

CowboyFrog

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At the same time, you acknowledge Dak isn't great. So it seems to me if you can recognize he's not the most talented, you have to account for the production. If it's not talent, it's gotta be scheme.
Dak isnt Mahomes but he is not a bottom tier QB either. KM may be the next Andy Ried who knows, what i do know is that with this franchise and this QB we seem to melt in the playoffs. We have seen Dak play great we have seen him play bad and thats on the player but is it not also the Coaches Job to have him ready? Again there had to be a change and the QB situation was not changin this year so the only real move was to change the OC, well see what happenes now. To further strain the logic of this I would ask WHY in the world an OC who thinks his QB is holding back his offense gets into empty sets many times when QB1 is back? Could be Jerry, could be MM, could also mean KM didnt think his QB was holding him back.
 

beware_d-ware

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This is Mike Nolan all over again. Brian Schottenheimer has been a mediocre OC at every stop he's made, and the only reason McCarthy is promoting him is because he hung out with his dad for seven years.

I'm hugely disappointed with how this franchise continues to do business.
 

doomsday9084

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https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/

I'll re-state this: Dallas was 17th in plays per drive and 18th in yards per drive.

The offense wasn't that good. They couldn't sustain drives as we saw with all of the 3 and outs.

They had some big overall numbers but that was because of turnovers. Dallas lead the league in takeaways (again), had the most points off turnovers and a handful more possessions than the typical team.
 

CowboyFrog

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This is Mike Nolan all over again. Brian Schottenheimer has been a mediocre OC at every stop he's made, and the only reason McCarthy is promoting him is because he hung out with his dad for seven years.

I'm hugely disappointed with how this franchise continues to do business.
To be fair you want even know this guy is the OC, he will be OC in title only as MM calls the plays and draws the scheme.
 

Haimerej

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Dak isnt Mahomes but he is not a bottom tier QB either. KM may be the next Andy Ried who knows, what i do know is that with this franchise and this QB we seem to melt in the playoffs. We have seen Dak play great we have seen him play bad and thats on the player but is it not also the Coaches Job to have him ready? Again there had to be a change and the QB situation was not changin this year so the only real move was to change the OC, well see what happenes now. To further strain the logic of this I would ask WHY in the world an OC who thinks his QB is holding back his offense gets into empty sets many times when QB1 is back? Could be Jerry, could be MM, could also mean KM didnt think his QB was holding him back.
Of course he's not bottom tier. But he's not taking this team to the next level either. That's the point. The production is elite, the talent isn't.

How many times does Dak play bad against untalented defenses? The playoffs are where the more talented players shine. When playing good defenses you have to be on point. You can't make late reads and throw picks. You can't score 12 points and expect to win. You also can't expect everything to be easy.

Most people here would probably take Kyle Shanahan over Kellen, right? But how did his offense perform against Dallas? They weren't dominant. They had plenty of missed opportunities, too. They only scored 19 points. The main difference is they didn't make as many mistakes.

Kellen left a year early for a more talented QB. Seems to undermine your last few sentences.
 

CowboyFrog

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Of course he's not bottom tier. But he's not taking this team to the next level either. That's the point. The production is elite, the talent isn't.

How many times does Dak play bad against untalented defenses? The playoffs are where the more talented players shine. When playing good defenses you have to be on point. You can't make late reads and throw picks. You can't score 12 points and expect to win. You also can't expect everything to be easy.

Most people here would probably take Kyle Shanahan over Kellen, right? But how did his offense perform against Dallas? They weren't dominant. They had plenty of missed opportunities, too. They only scored 19 points. The main difference is they didn't make as many mistakes.

Kellen left a year early for a more talented QB. Seems to undermine your last few sentences.
Well my last sentence wasn't on KM i said it very well could be JJ calling the shots, we dont know. Most would take Kyle because to many including myself think he will scheme to his players strengths. Thats my opinion because I like you am not in that inner circle and can only speculate as to what has gone on. As i said KM may go to LA and be Andy Ried, or he could be Jason Garrett...We do know that the QB position could not change this year without a huge cap problem that would take several years to come out of and if this doesnt work we are in the same spot next year we would have been if we dumped the QB and kept the OC this year. We will find out, i guess thats the good thing in all of this
 

Haimerej

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Well my last sentence wasn't on KM i said it very well could be JJ calling the shots, we dont know. Most would take Kyle because to many including myself think he will scheme to his players strengths. Thats my opinion because I like you am not in that inner circle and can only speculate as to what has gone on. As i said KM may go to LA and be Andy Ried, or he could be Jason Garrett...We do know that the QB position could not change this year without a huge cap problem that would take several years to come out of and if this doesnt work we are in the same spot next year we would have been if we dumped the QB and kept the OC this year. We will find out, i guess thats the good thing in all of this

Obviously we don't know the inner workings. Kellen said at his presser he talked to Jerry for a couple days to work out his leaving. Definitely gave the impression he wanted change. Of course what else is he going to say? I got fired?
 

CowboyFrog

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Obviously we don't know the inner workings. Kellen said at his presser he talked to Jerry for a couple days to work out his leaving. Definitely gave the impression he wanted change. Of course what else is he going to say? I got fired?
He for sure couldve wanted out, most coaches that want to "be there own man" wont stay here..lol And that is the main problem with the Franchise.
 

Stash

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To be fair you want even know this guy is the OC, he will be OC in title only as MM calls the plays and draws the scheme.
Schottenheimer is a glorified ‘running game coordinator’. Kellen Moore is gone because like his predecessors, he didn’t know enough or care enough about the running game.

And the lack of making it a priority, turned what was the best offensive line in football into a finesse line who couldn’t line up and impose their will.

When push came to shove, they got shoved.

Say what you want about Schottenheimer and Solari, they know how to coach and establish a running game.

And that’s why they’re here.
 

Rockport

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Dak isnt Mahomes but he is not a bottom tier QB either. KM may be the next Andy Ried who knows, what i do know is that with this franchise and this QB we seem to melt in the playoffs. We have seen Dak play great we have seen him play bad and thats on the player but is it not also the Coaches Job to have him ready? Again there had to be a change and the QB situation was not changin this year so the only real move was to change the OC, well see what happenes now. To further strain the logic of this I would ask WHY in the world an OC who thinks his QB is holding back his offense gets into empty sets many times when QB1 is back? Could be Jerry, could be MM, could also mean KM didnt think his QB was holding him back.
Daks inconsistency this year is all about scheme. Defenses knew what plays the Cowboys were going to run.
 

JeffInDC

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This is Mike Nolan all over again. Brian Schottenheimer has been a mediocre OC at every stop he's made, and the only reason McCarthy is promoting him is because he hung out with his dad for seven years.

I'm hugely disappointed with how this franchise continues to do business.
Again, Russell Wilson probably had his best 3-year stretch with Schottenheimer as his OC. Seattle scored their franchise points record (459) with him as OC. With him as OC and Solari as OL Coach, they had one of the best rushing offenses for 3 years. He got fired because he wanted to let Russ pass more while Carroll wanted to run the ball EVEN MORE. But, don't let facts get in the way.
 

TheBigEasy

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It has changed for sure. However, even before that we had people running off good posters like Hostile and Idgit.
I've heard that about Hostile which is a bit surprising to me. All of my interactions with him were all positive and he seemed like a cool dude. Disappointing if true...not that I don't believe you.
 
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