Cowboys Rated Best Offensive Line - Again

[khiladi]

Nope.

Uh.. Yep..

 

[gmoney112]

Uh.. Yep..

Negative. We actually decided to use top picks on OL, mainly because Tony was getting killed. That was the difference.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Callahan built the line.. So yes, Callahan.. Otherwise we'd still have guys like Phil Costa.. We weren't picking gems until that guy got here and implemented a zone-blocking scheme..

BTW, our red-zone scoring sucked.. So our OL couldn't simply impose their will down there..

I believe Callahan should get a ton of credit for coaching up a young o-line and having them play like vets, however, it's not accurate to suggest he's the reason we picked any of those guys. Not sure if you remember, but our draft board leaked several years in a row after the draft and it was quite obvious that the team just didn't value o-linemen. Jerry believed that we could get them cheap via free agency or late in the draft, because we had every o-lineman graded much lower than they actually went. After watching Romo go down in 2010, the mindset changed and we selected Tyron Smith in the 2011 season, when Callahan was still with the Jets.

Now in 2012, we did still try and go cheap, adding Nate Livings, Mackenzie Bernadeau and attempting to start Phil Costa, but I do not think Callahan is the reason we drafted Frederick. I think at this point Jerry knew he had to protect Romo and the team was locked in on o-line. And after watching a run of o-lineman (Cooper, Warmack, Long, Pugh) they traded down hoping to still get Frederick.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

Of course he was. Defenses kept more guys near the line of scrimmage and in the box more than Murray has ever seen. The passing game was absolutely no threat, so teams keyed on the run.

lol. On your PS4 Madden.

 

[percyhoward]

Let's not underestimate the Randle factor. He reeked in the first quarter of the season being the lead back.

Randle pretty much followed along with the rest of the running game, going for 3.4 ypc in the first two games, and 4.7 in the rest.

 

[Nightman]

But there's a few on here that said Tyron Smith is overrated because of the sacks he gave up this year.

I'm guessing, like most suspected, most of Smith's sacks came due to the QB holding onto the ball too long.

That is not accurate. TSmith was beat straight up a few times this year, especially against PHI.

He is still one of the best but he is far from perfect.

 

[khiladi]

Negative. We actually decided to use top picks on OL, mainly because Tony was getting killed. That was the difference.

Oh, so we waited 4 years with Houck to realize Romo was getting killed that we needed to start revamping our line? Genius?

Why was Garrett first pick as HC, Mo Claiborne, leveraging the draft? Why did they have Sharif Floyd rates as their number 1 pick on the Board hat year, but Jerry over-ruled and they went Frederick, who was from
Wisconsin and Callahan's alma mater and the guy he personally worked out and begged Dallas draft? Leary was an Undrafted free agent, brought here by Callahan his very first year here. Why the very next year, did Jerry say they had 3 defensive players as BPA slotted before Zach Miller but they were all picked of what you say is true?

 

[khiladi]

I believe Callahan should get a ton of credit for coaching up a young o-line and having them play like vets, however, it's not accurate to suggest he's the reason we picked any of those guys. Not sure if you remember, but our draft board leaked several years in a row after the draft and it was quite obvious that the team just didn't value o-linemen. Jerry believed that we could get them cheap via free agency or late in the draft, because we had every o-lineman graded much lower than they actually went. After watching Romo go down in 2010, the mindset changed and we selected Tyron Smith in the 2011 season, when Callahan was still with the Jets.

Now in 2012, we did still try and go cheap, adding Nate Livings, Mackenzie Bernadeau and attempting to start Phil Costa, but I do not think Callahan is the reason we drafted Frederick. I think at this point Jerry knew he had to protect Romo and the team was locked in on o-line. And after watching a run of o-lineman (Cooper, Warmack, Long, Pugh) they traded down hoping to still get Frederick.

We had Sharif on the board at 1, as Stephen even admitted. Jerry over-ruled based on Marinelli in the board room, confusing everybody.

Frederick was the guy they picked. It was Calkahan who worked him out and was familiar with him, because of his Wisconsin ties.

Why would people assume Callahan wasn't involved in evaluating guys for the OL, when Jerry over-ruled the draft board of Floyd based on Marinelli's output? Who knows zone blocking schemes?

That's my point.. Callahan would be the guy saying what type of guys they needed for his schemes and go over the tape. We were drafting BIG lineman for power blocking schemes with Houck. All of that changed when Callahan came.

 

[percyhoward]

McFadden wasn't facing stacked lines.

This is from Ben Muth, Oct 15, 2015 (before McFadden became the main back).

"It's tough to look good when you're facing eight-man boxes (or seven-man boxes when you're in 11 personnel). It's tough to look good when running backs are only getting what's blocked and nothing more. And it's tough to look good when not a single defender on the field is concerned with getting the ball thrown over his head. Honestly, with how defenses are playing them, I think the Cowboys would be better off going 22 personnel with Jason Witten and a sixth lineman as the tight ends instead of ever going 11 personnel on first or second down."

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-hope-dallas

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I knew somebody would bring up
silliness, while ignoring all the busts we picked and the actual scheme we were running while picking these busts.

Guess what?

Smith was pretty much the best OL to come out of college in years. He was arguably the JJ Watt of the OL that year.

It didn't take a genius to pick him, particularly since Flozell left and Jerry Jones was looking to protect Romo's blind-side. Jerry offered Flozell huge money the previous contract to stay here.

Not really, there wasn't really a consensus that he was the best lineman. Everyone agreed that he had the highest upside, but teams held it against him that he was a RT at USC (never made sense to me, but it was something people talked about) and he weighed like 280 at USC. Now he gained weight by the combine, but didn't put up the gaudy numbers of Trent Williams the year before, who I thought was a bit inconsistent at Oklahoma or as polished a Jake Long was coming out of Michigan.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

McFadden only had one game, when he took the bulk of the carries, where he averaged over 5 YPC before week 14. His performance from week 14 to week 17 really upped his YPC.

His season was nowhere near the season Murray had. McFadden was incredibly hot and cold until that small stretch of strong performances at the end of this season.

http://www.nfl.com/player/darrenmcfadden/284/gamelogs

McFadden wasn't even the starter until week 7......wonder why he did better later in the season

 

[Manwiththeplan]

We had Sharif on the board at 1, as Stephen even admitted. Jerry over-ruled based on Marinelli in the board room, confusing everybody.

Frederick was the guy they picked. It was Calkahan who worked him out and was familiar with him, because of his Wisconsin ties.

Why would people assume Callahan wasn't involved in evaluating guys for the OL, when Jerry over-ruled the draft board of Floyd based on Marinelli's output? Who knows zone defenses?

That's my point.. Callahan would be the guy saying what type of guys they needed for his schemes and go over the tape. We were drafting BIG lineman for power blocking schemes with Houck. All of that changed when Callahan came.

I'm not saying he wasn't involved, any positional coach would be involved with a pick (or should be). I'm saying the mindset changed prior to him coming here and I think given the way the draft fell, there's a good chance we would take Frederick any way. Not like his college film screemed ZBS at this level.

 

[khiladi]

Not really, there wasn't really a consensus that he was the best lineman. Everyone agreed that he had the highest upside, but teams held it against him that he was a RT at USC (never made sense to me, but it was something people talked about) and he weighed like 280 at USC. Now he gained weight by the combine, but didn't put up the gaudy numbers of Trent Williams the year before, who I thought was a bit inconsistent at Oklahoma or as polished a Jake Long was coming out of Michigan.

Whatever it was, Jerry needed a LT for Romo after Flozell. Even Jason said that year was an an exception they drafted according to need, as opposed to BPA because they had to. This was right before they drafted Mo leveraging the draft on a CB in Garrett's first year as HC.

Like I said though, even if he was the best lineman in years, one could argue by the time Dallas picked him he definitely was a candidate for BPA at that time, not simply a draft by need.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

This is from Ben Muth, Oct 15, 2015 (before McFadden became the main back).

"It's tough to look good when you're facing eight-man boxes (or seven-man boxes when you're in 11 personnel). It's tough to look good when running backs are only getting what's blocked and nothing more. And it's tough to look good when not a single defender on the field is concerned with getting the ball thrown over his head. Honestly, with how defenses are playing them, I think the Cowboys would be better off going 22 personnel with Jason Witten and a sixth lineman as the tight ends instead of ever going 11 personnel on first or second down."

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-hope-dallas

He's commenting on the game he saw. I was referring to when Murray saw it the last half of the season. Teams were committed to stopping him. Highly doubt teams had a gameplan on stopping McFadden.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Exactly. The offense stopped itself. McFadden wasn't facing stacked lines.

It may not have been stacked lines but it is a disadvantage for the offense when the only threat you have is the run game. Defenses were allowed to play us conservative and not be too concerned with the pass.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Whatever it was, Jerry needed a LT for Romo after Flozell. Even Jason said that year was an an exception they drafted according to need, as opposed to BPA because they had to. This was right before they drafted Mo leveraging the draft on a CB in Garrett's first year as HC.

Like I said though, even if he was the best lineman in years, one could argue by the time Dallas picked him he definitely was a candidate for BPA at that time, not simply a draft by need.

That same argument can definitely be used to explain the Zack Martin pick, especially since we know the team preferred Aaron Donald and Ryan Shazier who went prior to our pick.

I think there's more evidence to suggest that in prior seasons given the same situation (minus Romo getting knocked around the way he did in 2010), we pass on the LT and attempt to take one in the second or so as opposed to us passing on Frederick if Callahan was not here.

 

[khiladi]

I'm not saying he wasn't involved, any positional coach would be involved with a pick (or should be). I'm saying the mindset changed prior to him coming here and I think given the way the draft fell, there's a good chance we would take Frederick any way. Not like his college film screemed ZBS at this level.

I don't buy it, because they drafted Mo the next year. They then had Floyd on the board and the very next year, 3 defensive players before Martin.

They clearly thought their issues were defense and always had been. Even the year they fired Rob Ryan, Garrett said the reason the offense didn't score more was because of lack of TOs generates by the defense, not giving them more chances. He used the same excuse this year BTW.

Jerry has basically said its been about play-calling on offense, which is why he first tried Callahan than shifted to Linehan, after Garrett kept interfering.

So basically, they essentially got lucky getting Callahan here, because they year he came, they were trying to get Sparano back to help the struggling offense via play-calling. But he went to the Jets and Callahan left the Jets and they got him.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I don't buy it, because they drafted Mo the next year. They then had Floyd on the board and the very next year, 3 defensive players before Martin.

They clearly thought their issues were defense and always had been. Even the year they fired Rob Ryan, Garrett said the reason the offense didn't score more was because of lack of TOs generates by the defense, not giving them more chances. He used the same excuse this year BTW.

Jerry has basically said its been about play-calling on offense, which is why he first tried Callahan than shifted to Linehan, after Garrett kept interfering.

So basically, they essentially got lucky getting Callahan here, because they year he came, they were trying to get Sparano back to help the struggling offense via play-calling. But he went to the Jets and Callahan left the Jets and they got him.

And they were prepared to take Donald and Shazier (there was one more guy, Barr maybe, I forget) the following year, just the board fell that way where Martin was the best player left.

As far as Mo goes, I think Rob Ryan had a ton to do with that. Prior to the senior bowl, I remember him being asked was there anyone they were looking at, and his answer being along the line of "all the DBs." When an opportunity to get the top DB in the draft appeared, they took that chance.

fwiw, Callahan was on staff when we picked Mo, so obviously there was more to it than him or we would have taken DeCastro or Zeitler.

 

[khiladi]

That same argument can definitely be used to explain the Zack Martin pick, especially since we know the team preferred Aaron Donald and Ryan Shazier who went prior to our pick.

I think there's more evidence to suggest that in prior seasons given the same situation (minus Romo getting knocked around the way he did in 2010), we pass on the LT and attempt to take one in the second or so as opposed to us passing on Frederick if Callahan was not here.

Remember though, Jerry was always fascinated by the LT position to protect Romo's blind-side and he paid big money for Flozell to extend here. And this guy was a pro bowler and their best OL during those years of misery.

Outside of that, true their FO strategy they simply filled need via FA, by getting guys like Leonard Davis and Montrae Holland.

Look at 2012, here when they went Claiborne. Not a single OL was drafted. In the third, they went pass rusher, they then picked skill players like TE and receivers.

Most of the changes I think correlates to 2013 when Romo got his new contract and started getting involved in game-planning. That's also when Jerry started experimenting with the idea of Callahan now calling plays.

 

[khiladi]

Callahan's first year here was when we picked Mo. He also brought in Leary as an Undrafted FA.

And after one year here, Dallas was already making him play-caller, which obviously means that he started gaining valuable respect among people that mattered. Then Romo get his new contract, so I'm sure there was some pulling of Jerry's hand by Romo to get Garrett away from absolute control of the play calling.