Cowboys Sacred Cows

[LocimusPrime]

I would assume that the touchdown rate and average length of pass would favor Gronk significantly.

It does

 

[Verdict]

I never said we should pay extra for that. If every player was as dedicated to his craft as JW, this team would likely be unbeatable. I can expect others to be as dedicated as JW has been and provide the leadership that JW has throughout his career all I want to, but I will be disappointed because, by human nature, most won't/aren't capable of doing that.
If you don't consider him to be superior to most players when it comes to being a leader and demonstrating a superior work ethic, then that's your opinion and I'll just disagree with it. If you realistically expect that all other players are capable of doing those things at his level then I'll simply disagree with that, too.
As for us setting standards, we can all set whatever standards we want and it won't matter. If your player expectation standards are really higher than mine or anybody else's, how will that affect the player(s) you're applying those standards to? (Ans: It won't) Nor would my lower expectations have any bearing on any player. They're going to perform to the expectations they have of themselves, good or bad, high or low.

I think the piss poor standard that the Cowboys have had historically is one of the reasons for our lack of success.. Gregory is a good example of that.

The Patriots don't have the best players, per se, but they are generally smart football players and are consistent at what they do.

IsEdelman as good as Dez athletically? Hell no. But he is a better football player in some areas including effort, consistency ad football IQ. He is a more precise route runner. That makes up to some degree for the difference in physical ability between Dez and Edelman.

I do think Red Ball is trying to move the team in that direction. But a pick on a guy like Gregory is not in line with that way of thinking. It is wild catting hoping to hit a gusher.

I would hold the standard, but I would not pay a premium for it. I would just draft according to the standard I want to uphold. And no I do not think Witten or Dez and several others are worth their current salary, or overall cap hit.

 

[Verdict]

And that statement shows you know nothing about the salary cap.

His base is only that high this season because he made 2.5 base the two years before...combined.

This is what we did last season.

http://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-cow...cture-jason-wittens-contract-create-cap-space

We have done this 3 times to make room. As you see, the past years are absolutely relevant since this was all done by design.

So what is your point? What he was paid in the past is history. We are talking about this year. Keep up with the issue we are discussing.

 

[LandryFan]

I think the piss poor standard that the Cowboys have had historically is one of the reasons for our lack of success.. Gregory is a good example of that.

The Patriots don't have the best players, per se, but they are generally smart football players and are consistent at what they do.

IsEdelman as good as Dez athletically? Hell no. But he is a better football player in some areas including effort, consistency ad football IQ. He is a more precise route runner. That makes up to some degree for the difference in physical ability between Dez and Edelman.

I do think Red Ball is trying to move the team in that direction. But a pick on a guy like Gregory is not in line with that way of thinking. It is wild catting hoping to hit a gusher.

I would hold the standard, but I would not pay a premium for it. I would just draft according to the standard I want to uphold. And no I do not think Witten or Dez and several others are worth their current salary, or overall cap hit.

You'll get a big AMEN from me on that front! Spending premium resources on highly questionable players has cost us plenty in the last few years. Then, if you also throw in players like Escobar (high pick, zero production), it really has a cumulative affect. I'm just praying that J Smith pans out. We're due for a second rounder to produce, aren't we?

 

[treykin32]

I think the piss poor standard that the Cowboys have had historically is one of the reasons for our lack of success.. Gregory is a good example of that.

The Patriots don't have the best players, per se, but they are generally smart football players and are consistent at what they do.

IsEdelman as good as Dez athletically? Hell no. But he is a better football player in some areas including effort, consistency ad football IQ. He is a more precise route runner. That makes up to some degree for the difference in physical ability between Dez and Edelman.

I do think Red Ball is trying to move the team in that direction. But a pick on a guy like Gregory is not in line with that way of thinking. It is wild catting hoping to hit a gusher.

I would hold the standard, but I would not pay a premium for it. I would just draft according to the standard I want to uphold. And no I do not think Witten or Dez and several others are worth their current salary, or overall cap hit.

Since 2009 Edelman has 103 games 425 receptions 4540 yards 10.7 average 24 TDs 229 First Downs 4 Fumbles 2 Lost
Since 2010 Dez has 97 games 462 receptions 6,621 yards 14.3 average 67 TDs 312 First Downs 7 Fumbles 4 Lost

Yeah...Yeah Dez is slaw..some of you folks are funny.....I'd take Dez...you could have Edelman...haha...this is with a Dez that had a broken finger back in 2013 for half the season & a Dez that has recently dealt with knee and foot injuries. Question: How you all you experience couch dwellers determine who has football IQ and who doesn't? I mean really...

 

[robjay04]

So what is your point? What he was paid in the past is history. We are talking about this year. Keep up with the issue we are discussing.

Point is you don't understand the salary cap.

 

[DandyDon52]

So you're saying he was underutilized because he doesn't draw up the plays.

I agree with that and I think we all do.

yes partly that, he has no control over play calling or the QB seeing him open, or taking a chance on a jump ball if he is covered.
They rarely move him around, or let him run slants or across field routes.
If you look at gb they put cobb in the backfield, slot, out wide, reverse to him whatever to get him the ball. Or they did in 2014.

So if your paying him , the coaches need to find innovative ways to get him the ball more, not just run same wide out go routes
and force the ball into tight coverage.

 

[DandyDon52]

The only argument you can hang your hat on is to say Witten is available to play. That's it.

The flip side of that is that Gronk gives you waaaaaaaay better production/value on a per/game basis comparatively when he does play.

You should breakdown what production/value each player gives you on a per game basis.

yes and you also have to look at what a player does in games, at key points, to help win a game.
Like Edelman made the great catch in SB, so what is a play like that worth?? It will show in stats as only 1 catch.

Then there is coaching, if witten played for NE the past 5 years, how would he have done there? Better I think.
Many things come into play, but the OP was about rep and star status maybe being overpaid and not criticized like other players,
not is witten better than gronk, or Dez compared to edelman.

Coaching plays a big part in how a player does stat wise.
It is obvious NE gets more production out of their players due to coaching and strategy.

 

[Verdict]

Point is you don't understand the salary cap.

Smh. Ok professor, if you say so it must be true.

 

[Verdict]

yes partly that, he has no control over play calling or the QB seeing him open, or taking a chance on a jump ball if he is covered.
They rarely move him around, or let him run slants or across field routes.
If you look at gb they put cobb in the backfield, slot, out wide, reverse to him whatever to get him the ball. Or they did in 2014.

So if your paying him , the coaches need to find innovative ways to get him the ball more, not just run same wide out go routes
and force the ball into tight coverage.

Or maybe he should learn how to run constant routes and gain separation and that would take care of itself.

 

[Proximo]

Exactly my point. If all our active player were flagged at that rate we would have 15 per game just on our team... that's double the current NFL rate.

LOL

You clearly do not understand what the word "rate" means. How embarrassing (assuming you're not trolling, which you may be).

Hint- you'd want to use "per snap", not "per game" when judging how often a player does or doesn't do something.

Some of you guys...

 

[JoeKing]

LOL

You clearly do not understand what the word "rate" means. How embarrassing (assuming you're not trolling, which you may be).

Hint- you'd want to use "per snap", not "per game" when judging how often a player does or doesn't do something.

Some of you guys...

If you would go on to read the rest of my post in the thread you would find that I was playing devil's advocate to test the "sacred cow" label applied to Witten. You clearly object to my critique of Witten which suggests a validation of the sacred cow label.

 

[Proximo]

If you would go on to read the rest of my post in the thread you would find that I was playing devil's advocate to test the "sacred cow" label applied to Witten. You clearly object to my critique of Witten which suggests a validation of the sacred cow label.

No....just no.

I do not object to criticism of ANY player, as long as it's a valid criticism and there's sound logic at work.

What I do object to is illogical nonsense (i.e., your post that I quoted).

But, continue trolling. And by the way, my posts in this thread have nothing to do with Witten. Just your failed logic.

 

[visionary]

All I'll say is that IMO only 1 player on the Cowboys in the last 10 years deserves to be in the ROH and that is Witten

 

[JoeKing]

No....just no.

I do not object to criticism of ANY player, as long as it's a valid criticism and there's sound logic at work.

What I do object to is illogical nonsense (i.e., your post that I quoted).

But, continue trolling. And by the way, my posts in this thread have nothing to do with Witten. Just your failed logic.

You love Witten and you know it. It's okay to admit it, you're in a safe zone.

 

[mahoneybill]

I can certainly see how Witten's contract vs. performance could be viewed as him not playing up to his contract. Looking at it from a simple black and white perspective (Pay vs. Production), it looks out of whack. However, football teams deal in many shades of gray and things aren't always clear cut. What Witten means to this franchise goes well beyond his on-field production... and I'm not talking about sentimental aspects either. I mean the leadership and work ethic that he brings to the team. The stability and the precision. The pressure he puts on defenses to just keep an eye on him helps those around him and his run blocking is still near the top of the league for TE's.

There are a ton of things that he does that helps Dallas win games and none of them have anything to do with legacy.

Can he stretch a defense down the seam much? No. Can he get yards after the catch? Hell no. But there are so many things that he does that helps the W/L column... in the locker room. At practice. And still on the field.

Now, would I like to see what an O.J. Howard could do with Dak and Elliott? Oh, hell yeah. The passing game would be harder to stop with that kind of athleticism at TE. However, his run blocking wouldn't be as good as Witten's. His leadership would be a tiny fraction of what Jason brings to the huddle, and his reliability would be much less for Dak at least for a couple of seasons.

Bottom line is, I would love an athletic TE too but fans don't see everything that Witten brings to the table and his significant contributions that can't be quantified are all too often overlooked or forgotten about entirely.

And I consider you to be a pretty well informed fan verdict, so I'm not putting down anything you said... just giving my perspective on this subject.

As for Dez... I'm too sleepy to get into that one. Maybe another day, lol.

Nice, well rounded post Asthma....

 

[Proximo]

You love Witten and you know it. It's okay to admit it, you're in a safe zone.

Troll.

 

[JoeKing]

Troll.

Witten worshipper

 

[Proximo]

Witten worshipper

I haven't mentioned Witten once in this thread.

Just your flawed logic.

As a side note, you should be glad I'm going with theory that you're just trolling. Because if you're not trolling...I've got some bad news.

 

[JoeKing]

I haven't mentioned Witten once in this thread.

Just your flawed logic.

As a side note, you should be glad I'm going with theory that you're just trolling. Because if you're not trolling...I've got some bad news.

I'm trying to keep this about Witten and his fans but you insist on making this about me and insults.