Signed by Cowboys Cowboys sign LB Joe Thomas

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Sydla

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does it matter what order its in? do you think the DC FO doesn't know now that Cooper is no longer available that its need they have to fill? do all you guys on here feel they have zero ideas on their current and future needs? im sure they have long list of available guards and tackles that they have or already contacted for a look..juts because its not reported 24/7 doesn't mean they aren't coming up with solutions..LBs and Saftey are much less of need at this point IMO than shoring up the OL at LG and Swing tackle..they know this im sure, they saw last year that this was the main issue in that slide mid season after Smith went down etc ..Maybe Bowman comes in or someone similar the ex skins LB etc..maybe we get the hitchens replacement in the draft or hes on the roster..you cant have PB type guys at every position..finding a solid guy who knows the position and can simply play, he doesn't have to be a star, the NFL faces are starts but the real glue IMO is the role players and the players that sometime go unnoticed.. The NBA is built of the Super Star(s) but the NFL is built on managing the cap and that means building 60+% of your team with solid players, not big names..

I quibble with the idea that LG is more of a need than a staring LB. They are both equally big needs.

Which is why they should have been more proactive in FA in addressing one of those needs to free up the draft for other positions, etc.

And no, I actually am not sure the Cowboys FO knows what they are doing when it comes to FA. I keep waiting for signs they have learned from their mistakes in the recent past and yet they keep doing the same things over and over.
 

Jumbo075

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look i detect much sarcasm but really Frazier and Woods are very young and show promise, they could be more than fill ins.. developing your own talent before over paying and over reaching for FAs that are no guarantee pother than killing the cap and becoming progress stopper for the young guys..Im not fan of heath but as a backup im good, im pretty much out on Jones but id rather keep him at S and let the new DB coach find whats missing with him..hes got size, speed, and talent but his natural instincts aren't there and he needs Honing for sure..if they aren't thrilled with any of these guys as front line starters id rather than trade up and get James than trade for Thomas for S..id luv thomas on the roaster but not for the price it will take for guy on the downside of his career..

Jones is probably the top cover guy for big tight ends in the NFL. With all the new athletic receiving tight ends, that is worth having on the defense. Here's the key question: If Brandon Carr had not been pulling as much salary, and if the Cowboys had not still been trying to give Claiborne a reasonable chance to prove his value, would they ever have moved Jones to safety? I always interpreted that as them trying to get the best 5 players on the field in the defensive secondary. Carr and Claiborne couldn't play safety. Neither could Scandrick. But Jones could. So playing him at safety was the option they chose to get the best 5 players on the field (along with Barry Church).

Well, now Church, Carr, Claiborne and Scandrick are all gone. The Cowboys have drafted Frazier and Woods in the last two drafts, and each shows promise. The reason that the Cowboys didn't make a run at Mathieu is because Woods played really well in the same type role as Mathieu. But they do need an "umbrella" type free safety. Jones is better suited as a coverage guy. So moving him back outside, with Awuzie as the other outside CB, Lewis as the nickel CB, and Brown as the Dime CB makes more sense now that Frazier and Woods are available. For now, Heath has the deep safety role, but he is a weakness in the secondary that needs to be addressed with either Derwin James or Jessie Bates III in the draft, or a trade for Earl Thomas.

Can Jones blanket outside receivers like he blankets TE's? We are about to find out. When he comes inside to cover the TE, can Brown recover his rookie form, and play better as the dime back? We are going to find out. Can the Cowboys upgrade Heath with a true umbrella coverage safety? We are going to find out.

If there is a trade made for Earl Thomas, it won't happen until the draft, because if Derwin James falls to the Cowboys, then they won't pull the trigger on the trade, which would be for the 2nd round pick, plus other consideration. One other reason why the Cowboys may not be making a big push for a high-priced free agent is that they are keeping the space open for Thomas, just in case. If James doesn't fall to the Cowboys at 19, then they could trade back for a later pick in the 1st round, and a 2nd, and then package two 2nd round picks for Thomas - while using the later pick in round 1 for a LB or OL.
 

LACowboysFan1

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No one has said they should sign a top free agent.

Please note I said "IF anyone expects".

And if you think NO ONE has said they should, you've missed some posts here. When someone says signing Thomas is "churning the bottom of the roster", the implication is that they should sign top free agents....
 

blueblood70

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Jones is probably the top cover guy for big tight ends in the NFL. With all the new athletic receiving tight ends, that is worth having on the defense. Here's the key question: If Brandon Carr had not been pulling as much salary, and if the Cowboys had not still been trying to give Claiborne a reasonable chance to prove his value, would they ever have moved Jones to safety? I always interpreted that as them trying to get the best 5 players on the field in the defensive secondary. Carr and Claiborne couldn't play safety. Neither could Scandrick. But Jones could. So playing him at safety was the option they chose to get the best 5 players on the field (along with Barry Church).

Well, now Church, Carr, Claiborne and Scandrick are all gone. The Cowboys have drafted Frazier and Woods in the last two drafts, and each shows promise. The reason that the Cowboys didn't make a run at Mathieu is because Woods played really well in the same type role as Mathieu. But they do need an "umbrella" type free safety. Jones is better suited as a coverage guy. So moving him back outside, with Awuzie as the other outside CB, Lewis as the nickel CB, and Brown as the Dime CB makes more sense now that Frazier and Woods are available. For now, Heath has the deep safety role, but he is a weakness in the secondary that needs to be addressed with either Derwin James or Jessie Bates III in the draft, or a trade for Earl Thomas.

Can Jones blanket outside receivers like he blankets TE's? We are about to find out. When he comes inside to cover the TE, can Brown recover his rookie form, and play better as the dime back? We are going to find out. Can the Cowboys upgrade Heath with a true umbrella coverage safety? We are going to find out.

If there is a trade made for Earl Thomas, it won't happen until the draft, because if Derwin James falls to the Cowboys, then they won't pull the trigger on the trade, which would be for the 2nd round pick, plus other consideration. One other reason why the Cowboys may not be making a big push for a high-priced free agent is that they are keeping the space open for Thomas, just in case. If James doesn't fall to the Cowboys at 19, then they could trade back for a later pick in the 1st round, and a 2nd, and then package two 2nd round picks for Thomas - while using the later pick in round 1 for a LB or OL.
not sure i agree on him being better CB, he has issues at times simply covering a TE..how in the world is he going to cover a quicker WR that will most likely have much more space and route trees to run them..Tes don't do a ton of routes , should be an easier cover in a reduced part of the field....?
 

LACowboysFan1

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ot sure i agree on him being better CB, he has issues at times simply covering a TE..how in the world is he going to cover a quicker WR

Tight ends are nearly always bigger and taller, size has it's uses in catching passes. Just because someone doesn't cover 6-6 tight ends doesn't mean he can't cover a 6-0 receiver.

Or vice versa. Darren Woodson-type DBs are pretty rare...
 

Sydla

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Please note I said "IF anyone expects".

And if you think NO ONE has said they should, you've missed some posts here. When someone says signing Thomas is "churning the bottom of the roster", the implication is that they should sign top free agents....

Except that's wrong. I've said Thomas is churning the bottom of the barrel. Because, that's a fact. He's a dumpster dive, something this FO is all too familiar and comfortable with.

But in saying that, I also did not want them to splurge. Frankly, I think it would have been awful signing Watkins for what he went for.

I've pounded the table for mid-level moves. Go get Tre Boston. Or go get Bowman. Or should have gone after one of these mid-level MLBs. Or signed one of the OGs on the open market. Or make sure you get Fleming to help the OL.
 

lostar2009

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This is one of those I'm smarter than other teams signing. The like the 2016 production and wish to recapture it. I would have just got a more proven vet.
 

LACowboysFan1

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I've pounded the table for mid-level moves

That's fine, but mid-level moves to me means signing average players, and while most teams do have lots of average players, I don't see that the Cowboys are awash with lots of low level players, which signing mid-level players means you think you do have lots of low-level players and are improving your team by signing mid-level guys.

For this team, at this time, I prefer re-signing current players and drafting replacements for departed/old/poor players. Obviously you can't expect to replace 6-8 starters in one draft, but I think that players like Awuzie, B. Jones, Woods and others should be given a chance to shine before trying too many free agents...
 

LACowboysFan1

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This is one of those I'm smarter than other teams signing. The like the 2016 production and wish to recapture it. I would have just got a more proven vet.

Well we don't know, and I can see how you might feel that way. But to realistically to me the Cowboys are saying "we lost a special teams linebacker, an average linebacker that can play multiple spots, so let's sign a guy to fill both those roles"

He's not thought of as a guy that other teams just missed on, he's a cheap (relatively) replacement for depth and backup.

Imo...
 

Sydla

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That's fine, but mid-level moves to me means signing average players, and while most teams do have lots of average players, I don't see that the Cowboys are awash with lots of low level players, which signing mid-level players means you think you do have lots of low-level players and are improving your team by signing mid-level guys.

For this team, at this time, I prefer re-signing current players and drafting replacements for departed/old/poor players. Obviously you can't expect to replace 6-8 starters in one draft, but I think that players like Awuzie, B. Jones, Woods and others should be given a chance to shine before trying too many free agents...

I'd rather have an average player like a Tre Boston or Bowman, that isn't a bad contract, than pay a backup LB nearly $5MM for two years.

We have clear holes - OG, MLB, S, DT, DE........... you can't fix them all in one draft. So go out and grab a Bowman at MLB or sign an OG that doesn't strap you against the cap but does allow a bit more flexibility when the draft comes. We haven't done that. We seemingly think we either don't have that many holes or that they are so great at drafting, they will fill them all in one draft.

We aren't even signing average players. We are signing slop.

Your comment about Awuzie, Jones and Woods makes no sense. I am not suggesting we go sign any CBs. But we have a clear need at S. Heath and Frazier are backup types. Woods can possibly be a starting FS in this league but you still need a good SS next to him.
 

lostar2009

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Well we don't know, and I can see how you might feel that way. But to realistically to me the Cowboys are saying "we lost a special teams linebacker, an average linebacker that can play multiple spots, so let's sign a guy to fill both those roles"

He's not thought of as a guy that other teams just missed on, he's a cheap (relatively) replacement for depth and backup.

Imo...

Wilber was a nobody at LB. If anything a ST player. The vet like Bowman made more sense to me. We know Lee will get hurt. Do you trust this guy on the field taking major reps? Once again the FO is leaving the middle exposed.
 

Nightman

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Just because the Packers didn't give a tender offer to Thomas doesn't mean they didn't want him back. It just means they may have wanted him back at a cost less than $2.9M per season. The Cowboys made the same choice with FB Keith Smith. They wanted him back, but didn't give him a tender offer. The result is that both players left for better offers elsewhere, Smith with the Raiders, and Thomas with the Cowboys.

Now, as it's being reported, Thomas contract must be incentive laden, because the reports talk about the upper limit of his compensation, but don't actually give the details of his contract. He was playing well the year before the Packers selected Blake Martinez, who replaced him in the starting lineup. This is an indication to me that he's best suited for a backup role, but can be a spot starter. Well, the Cowboys need a backup MLB, whether Jaylon Smith is the starter, or the Cowboys sign Bowman or draft a young MLB in April. And I've got no issue with the Cowboys offering Thomas incentive pay if he exceeds expectations. I don't know why any fan would have a problem with that.

Bottom line: The Cowboys now have a backup MLB on the roster. They still need a backup WILL, and either a starting MIKE or starting SAM LB - depending on where they play Smith. Also, LB's are good to have for special teams, because they bring both bulk and speed.
Good recap

I think they replace Hitchens in the early Draft.... a lot of talented 4-3 LBs this year
Might even draft 2 of them

They can still add a cheap vet like Bowman or Derrick Johnson or Cushing
Plus they have Lillard and TJohnson for depth and STs

It is a process but we are covered....Jaylon Smith is going to really surprise people this year
 

Sydla

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Good recap

I think they replace Hitchens in the early Draft.... a lot of talented 4-3 LBs this year
Might even draft 2 of them

They can still add a cheap vet like Bowman or Derrick Johnson or Cushing
Plus they have Lillard and TJohnson for depth and STs

It is a process but we are covered....Jaylon Smith is going to really surprise people this year

So thus far............ we are going to take a LB early, a WR early, a DT early, an OL early, etc.................

This is the folly of the defense of the front office's plan to largely ignore FA because they have the draft still to come............... they can't fill all their holes with an "early" pick.
 

LACowboysFan1

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Your comment about Awuzie, Jones and Woods makes no sense. I am not suggesting we go sign any CBs

Didn't say you were, I was using examples about I'd not draft players to replace young guys. You're reading things into my posts that aren't there...
 

Nightman

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Except that's wrong. I've said Thomas is churning the bottom of the barrel. Because, that's a fact. He's a dumpster dive, something this FO is all too familiar and comfortable with.

But in saying that, I also did not want them to splurge. Frankly, I think it would have been awful signing Watkins for what he went for.

I've pounded the table for mid-level moves. Go get Tre Boston. Or go get Bowman. Or should have gone after one of these mid-level MLBs. Or signed one of the OGs on the open market. Or make sure you get Fleming to help the OL.
It is a tough spot....... we have starters .....we are looking for backups

Why pay big bucks to backups?
Draft a couple and we are set

And LOG is a much bigger need
 

Nightman

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So thus far............ we are going to take a LB early, a WR early, a DT early, an OL early, etc.................

This is the folly of the defense of the front office's plan to largely ignore FA because they have the draft still to come............... they can't fill all their holes with an "early" pick.
Actually they can

The only 'hole' is LG

WR is 6 deep
LB we have all 3 starters
LG we have CGreen and KEdwards

You are being a bit dramatic
 

Sydla

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Actually they can

The only 'hole' is LG

WR is 6 deep
LB we have all 3 starters
LG we have CGreen and KEdwards

You are being a bit dramatic

LOL.

Who is the 3rd starter at LB? Wilson? Thomas? You mean to tell me a guy like Bowman would be a backup here?

LG is clearly a need.

We don't have a legit 1 Tech. Don't give me Price. Collins is a 3 Tech forced to play the 1 Tech because of previous FO screw ups.

We need a starting SS, Frazier and Heath aren't it. We may even need a starting FS as we don't know what Woods actually is.

You are overselling the depth and quality of the roster. There are far more holes than you think. Frankly, I think the front office thinks exactly like you do........... they believe this roster is more talented than it really is. As someone said in another thread, they seem to operate like they are one, maybe two, players from being complete.
 

gimmesix

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So thus far............ we are going to take a LB early, a WR early, a DT early, an OL early, etc.................

This is the folly of the defense of the front office's plan to largely ignore FA because they have the draft still to come............... they can't fill all their holes with an "early" pick.

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think we're going to take a DT early.
 
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