Cutting Vandy was a bad move

[blindzebra]

cutting vanderjagt...

:shootfoot

i don't want to lose games, but i don't think we have to worry that much about this guy.

i mean, the Commanders game kick was NOT his fault. he shouldn't take the blame for that.

and the two he missed the other week were not "gimmes" -- they were mid-40s. yes, he should have made them. but that's one bad game. you have to figure that the most accurate kicker in nfl history would make that up over time.

and his replacement? holy cow, gramatica's career percentage is hardly better than what vandy's percentage is for this season.

and considering that you still have to pay vandy his signing bonus and possibly all of his contract for this season, PLUS whatever you're paying gramatica directly, you have to look at it as if you're paying gramatica ALL of that combined -- because that's what you're paying for your kicker.

does anyone really think that gramatica is worth the price of TWO kickers?!

First off, I saw the replay of the block again on ESPN and that thing was too low anyway, it was going to get blocked at the LOS and that WOULD BE ON HIM...and by some miracle it gets past, do you really think it doesn't go wide right?

20 yards had been his safe zone...extra points...and even from that range he has been near doinking the upright.

 

[Rampage]

What are you talking about? Everytime the Cowboys lose it is a fix.

no. the world series was fixed way back when with the white sox(shoeless joe and them). my point is championships have been fixed yet some of you guys think its totally insane to think a KICKER of all things might be missing on purpose. hey for all you know somebody could be paying him more to miss a few kicks here or there.

 

[blindzebra]

There is a good chance it was a bad move unless Grammtica returns to his early form which is a big risk.
I think we should have given Vandy more time but I don't understand the lockeroom situation.

Vandy has been hitting the ball solid just pushing to the right slightly. All but one of his misses hit the upright. It is a slight adjustment.

Also, his kickoffs had been improving.

I really thought he would be ok.

He was pushing it right in TC...slight adjustment didn't happen.

He pushed it right all preseason...slight adjustment didn't happen.

He pushed it right all season to the last FG from 22 yards nearly doinked...slight adjustment never happened.

So tell me, were we supposed to wait until he doinked a game winning kick in the playoffs, NFC Championship game or Super Bowl to see if that slight adjustment happened yet?

 

[notherbob]

Signing Vanderjagt in the first place was a bad move. Particularly when Vinatieri was available.

My thoughts, exactly. JJ has now paid for Venatieri but hasn't got him...and the beat goes on. Whose idea was Vandy, anyway. JJ's or BP's?

In fairness to Vandy, even though I don't like his personality, kickers can pick up a hitch in their motion and not be aware of what it is like a golfer or batter can. A good coach, or temporary tutor, can help them study film and discover what it is and a good sports psychologist can sometime help them deal with the mental aspects. Neither of which will help his personality any but maybe this failure willl jar him into learning to keep his mouth shut and focusing on the kick instead of himself.

 

[Stautner]

My thoughts, exactly. JJ has now paid for Venatieri but hasn't got him...and the beat goes on. Whose idea was Vandy, anyway. JJ's or BP's?

In fairness to Vandy, even though I don't like his personality, kickers can pick up a hitch in their motion and not be aware of what it is like a golfer or batter can. A good coach, or temporary tutor, can help them study film and discover what it is and a good sports psychologist can sometime help them deal with the mental aspects. Neither of which will help his personality any but maybe this failure willl jar him into learning to keep his mouth shut and focusing on the kick instead of himself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - this kind of thinking just isn't based in reality or logic.

Just because Vinateiri was a free agent DOES NOT mean he was ours for the taking, and just because we didn't sign him DOES NOT mean we didn't persue him.

To act as if we unquestionably can sign anyone we want at any time and at a price that makes sense is totally irrational.

And to act as if we should have been able to see in advance that signing the most accurate kicker in NFL history would have turned out to be a bad move is just as irrational.

 

[blindzebra]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - this kind of thinking just isn't based in reality or logic.

Just because Vinateiri was a free agent DOES NOT mean he was ours for the taking, and just because we didn't sign him DOES NOT mean we didn't persue him.

To act as if we unquestionably can sign anyone we want at any time and at a price that makes sense is totally irrational.

And to act as if we should have been able to see in advance that signing the most accurate kicker in NFL history would have turned out to be a bad move is just as irrational.

Actually if memory serves Vinateiri was scheduled to come here after meeting with Indy and some other teams, and the Colts did what Jerry is famous for...when your guy visits, you don't let him leave.

 

[utrunner07]

no. the world series was fixed way back when with the white sox(shoeless joe and them). my point is championships have been fixed yet some of you guys think its totally insane to think a KICKER of all things might be missing on purpose. hey for all you know somebody could be paying him more to miss a few kicks here or there.

Yeah, you keep trying to defend your rediculous statement, we did not land on the moon either it was all staged, and TO dropped some of the passes this season becuase he had a cousin with money riding on the game...yeah, your idea makes a lot of since.:bang2:

 

[Rampage]

Yeah, you keep trying to defend your rediculous statement, we did not land on the moon either it was all staged, and TO dropped some of the passes this season becuase he had a cousin with money riding on the game...yeah, your idea makes a lot of since.:bang2:

it does make sense smart guy. i said it was my opinion. i didn't say i know this for a fact. think about it, the most accurate kicker in nfl history all of a sudden forgets how to kick a fg. hell even his xps were almost misses

 

[aikemirv]

it does make sense smart guy. i said it was my opinion. i didn't say i know this for a fact. think about it, the most accurate kicker in nfl history all of a sudden forgets how to kick a fg. hell even his xps were almost misses

See, you said it yourself, "even his XP's were almost misses"

That more proves he had a problem does it not.

I guess you will come back with the idea that he was shanking the Xp's just to make the FG misses more believeable!:laugh2:

 

[Stautner]

Actually if memory serves Vinateiri was scheduled to come here after meeting with Indy and some other teams, and the Colts did what Jerry is famous for...when your guy visits, you don't let him leave.

Assuming this is true, then we never even got our shot at him although we thought we would have that shot. Why some automatically assumed that we just chose not to persue him or that he was ours for the taking is beyond me.

 

[Rampage]

See, you said it yourself, "even his XP's were almost misses"

That more proves he had a problem does it not.

I guess you will come back with the idea that he was shanking the Xp's just to make the FG misses more believeable!:laugh2:

read what you just typed and think about it.

 

[aikemirv]

read what you just typed and think about it.

Read what you write and think about it.

So I guess he missed the two in preseason in Minnesota just to set the stage right?

 

[Rampage]

Read what you write and think about it.

So I guess he missed the two in preseason in Minnesota just to set the stage right?

maybe, you never know. he wasn't happy here. so he kicked his way out. just give it a thought instead of totally ruling it out

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

maybe, you never know. he wasn't happy here. so he kicked his way out. just give it a thought instead of totally ruling it out

How about we think about it, than not totally rule it out but instead 99.99999% rule it out.

 

[Rampage]

How about we think about it, than not totally rule it out but instead 99.99999% rule it out.

thats cool with me. you guys act like there has never been conspiracys in sports

 

[5Stars]

How about we think about it, than not totally rule it out but instead 99.99999% rule it out.

I already thought about it, cried about it, laughed about it, and forgot about it!

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

thats cool with me. you guys act like there has never been conspiracys in sports

Nope but usually in conspiracy theories one out of a million might be true.

 

[Stautner]

read what you just typed and think about it.

Use a little common sense Roy.

Assuming for a second you are right and Vandy was missing FG's on purpose because someone was paying him more to miss than his NFL salary.

Consider that by missing he could be cutting his NFL career short, so his NFL salary over the course of the next five or more years might be non-existent ....... in other words by missing FG's he may be eliminating his ability to earn a living at all in the NFL, so those mysterious guys paying him to miss would have to cough up about $15 million or more to replace and go beyond the salary Vandy could have made if he had just kept kicking FG's accurately.

That's a lot of money to pay a guy to miss - especially considering that many of the misses may not even affect the outcome of the game for betters.

Also consider that as the most accurate kicker in history he was on pace for the HOF, yet by finishing his career as a joke he would likely kiss that goodbye.

Finally, consider that off years aren't as uncommon as you think.

Akers had 5 straight years over 80% then dropped to 72.7% last year.

Over 9 seasons Ryan Longwell was accurate on over 80% of his kicks in all but 2 seasons - one at 64.5% and one at 74.1%.

Vinatieri had an uncharacteristically low 73.5% in 2003.

THIS JUST HAPPENS - your argument is way too far fetched to take seriously.

 

[Rampage]

Use a little common sense Roy.

Assuming for a second you are right and Vandy was missing FG's on purpose because someone was paying him more to miss than his NFL salary.

Now consider that by missing he could be cutting his NFL career short, so his NFL salary over the course of the next five or more years might be non-existent ....... in other words by missing FG's on purpose he may be eliminating his ability to earn a living at all in the NFL, so those mysterious guys paying him to miss are going to have to cough up about $15 million or more to replace and go beyond the salary Vandy could have made if he had just kept kicking FG's accurately.

That's a lot of money to pay a guy to miss - especially considering that many of the misses may not even affect the outcome of the game for betters.

Also consider that as the most accurate kicker in history he was on pace for the HOF, yet by finishing his career as a joke he would likely be kissing that goodbye.

Finally, consider that off years aren't as uncommon as you think.

Akers had 5 straight years with over 80% accuracy then dropped to 72.7% last year.

Over 9 seasons Ryan Longwell was accurate on over 80% of his kicks in all but 2 seasons - one at 64.5% and one at 74.1%.

Vinatieri had an uncharacteristically low 73.5% in 2003.

THIS JUST HAPPENS - your argument is way too far fetched to take seriously.

there are some serious cowboy haters. dan snyder has that kind of money. also vandy is set for life money wise

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

there are some serious cowboy haters. dan snyder has that kind of money. also vandy is set for life money wise

Yet according to a recent article it was said that Vandy/Agent required a clause in his contract that he would get an additional $200 K if he made around 85% or more of his kicks.

Just seems too far fetched of a theory.

I mean maybe we never ever really landed on the moon, but the odds are against the theory that we did not.