D.Smith Updates

[InmanRoshi]

I think Davis goes to SS and put Watkins out there. Hey why not? I think Davis is the second best SS we have now anyway.

And don't give me the "Watkins-Petitti" fate stuff...

Petitti was an injured (coming into camp), overweight LT who had to shed pounds and learn a new position.

I don't think Watkins has those challenges. PLUS Watkins had a much better pedigree coming out of college than Rob P. did. Maybe you didn't read all the posts in this thread but many draft publications had Watkins as a second rounder. His 5th round selection was a shock-- it wasn't expected.

You're grasping "at straws" and have gotten a pretty short one there mate.

Yeah, banking on a 5th round draft pick to start as a rookie is erring on the side of logic.

I know why Canty dropped to the 4th round. He had potential blindness in one eye and was coming off major reconstructive surgery on a knee where he tore two major ligaments heading into the draft process. I'm still waiting for an explaination as to why Pat Watkins dropped to the 5th round. Especially considering he had a clean bill of health, played for a major high profile program, every one knew who he was and was well scouted.

 

[DLCassidy]

What sort of year would you expect an FS to have if you moved him to SS after 3 games? It isn't like they let him practice at SS during camp and pre-season or anything.

The point was the move to cut Smith wasn't financial. Even if you planned to use him as a backup it would have cost them less against their cap to do that then cut him and sign Keith Davis.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

What sort of year would you expect an FS to have if you moved him to SS after 3 games? It isn't like they let him practice at SS during camp and pre-season or anything.

In many systems the SS and FS positions are interchangeable. There isn't as much separating the two as what most laymen think.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Yeah, banking on a 5th round draft pick to start as a rookie is erring on the side of logic.

I know why Canty dropped to the 4th round. He had potential blindness in one eye and was coming off major reconstructive surgery on a knee where he tore two major ligaments heading into the draft process.

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why Pat Watkins dropped to the 5th round. Especially considering he had a clean bill of health, played for a major high profile pgoram, every one knew who he was and was well scouted.

You want the explanation on why Watkins dropped? Here it is... It was even mentioned on day 2 of the draft.

You see there has never been a 6'5" safety in the NFL... and because he's such an unusual "shape" for a safety most teams instantly took him off of their draft boards just because he didn't "look the part".

His draft drop was in a large measure to NFL position "prejudice" much more so than the guy not having talent.

I think NFL talent evaluators have tunnel vision on what a player is suppose to look like at a respective position and if he doesn't then that player is discounted.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

In many systems the SS and FS positions are interchangeable. There isn't as much separating the two as what most laymen think.

Unfortunately for Smith, NO wasn't one of those "interchangeable" systems.

 

[AbeBeta]

The point was the move to cut Smith wasn't financial. Even if you planned to use him as a backup it would have cost them less against their cap to do that then cut him and sign Keith Davis.

And they'd have an actual SS rather than an FS playing out of position.

 

[AbeBeta]

In many systems the SS and FS positions are interchangeable. There isn't as much separating the two as what most laymen think.

Yeah, folks keep saying that. But if the positions were so interchangeable then why were the Saints starting Jay Bellamy and leaving Bullocks on the bench early in the season?

If the spots are truly interchangeable then why not play your rookie -- it wasn't like the Saints were going to win games anyway.

 

[junk]

But right now we just cut our cap space by a couple million with the Witten contract... plus how much for Roy's deal and maybe Brady's.

Plus I'm looking at more than this season.

At some point we're going to have to pay a QB.

And our best defender, Newman is also due soon.

How much are you guys expecting him to get? You want to tell me how lousy he is, but then in the next sentence you think he is going to get a huge deal. Which is it?

NO had him on the block and nobody made an offer to him. That tells me that no one will offer him more than he was previously getting. If a team does, they are stupid. You could have tossed a 7th rounder or conditional pick to NO and saved some change (that means the Vikes will probably give him a double digit signing bonus).

So, I'd suspect his deal will be less than his previous deal....which would be cap friendly for a potential solution to the FS issue.

I think he is a better player than Chris Hope who, I believe, got significantly more money.

 

[junk]

Wrong. Smith was cut because he had a bad year. KC Joyner: "To be perfectly blunt, he had a terrible season. He had to move to strong safety after Bellamy got hurt. He didn't adjust well to the new position and ranked dead last among strong safeties in a large number of categories. Add to this that Josh Bullocks did so well at FS and he ended up being an overpriced backup".

NO took a 2.8m cap hit to cut him. Even if they opted to divide that hit over 2 seasons they only saved 500k this year by cutting him and it would have left them with 1.4m in "dead money" for next year. The offer sheet they signed Davis to called for Davis to earn 2.1m in 2006, which would have meant a cap # of around 1.1 million. If they had kept Smith, his cap # this year would only be about 1.9m. So it would appear they cut Smith because they didn't want to play him, not for financial reasons.

Using KC Joyner as any sort of argument isn't going to help your cause with me.

The guy is grading players, but admits to not seeing all the games, watches a TV feed and doesn't have any idea of the coverages that teams are running.

His work is a slightly more organized approach to guessing.

 

[InmanRoshi]

How much are you guys expecting him to get? You want to tell me how lousy he is, but then in the next sentence you think he is going to get a huge deal. Which is it?

NO had him on the block and nobody made an offer to him. That tells me that no one will offer him more than he was previously getting. If a team does, they are stupid. You could have tossed a 7th rounder or conditional pick to NO and saved some change (that means the Vikes will probably give him a double digit signing bonus).

So, I'd suspect his deal will be less than his previous deal....which would be cap friendly for a potential solution to the FS issue.

I think he is a better player than Chris Hope who, I believe, got significantly more money.

Tampa is reportedly offering just a 1 year deal.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

How much are you guys expecting him to get? You want to tell me how lousy he is, but then in the next sentence you think he is going to get a huge deal. Which is it?

NO had him on the block and nobody made an offer to him. That tells me that no one will offer him more than he was previously getting. If a team does, they are stupid. You could have tossed a 7th rounder or conditional pick to NO and saved some change (that means the Vikes will probably give him a double digit signing bonus).

So, I'd suspect his deal will be less than his previous deal....which would be cap friendly for a potential solution to the FS issue.

I think he is a better player than Chris Hope who, I believe, got significantly more money.

A lot of lousy players get great deals... this is the NFL-- it's how this stuff works.

There must be a good reason we're not pursuing him.

Let it go Junk... just let it go.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Yeah, folks keep saying that. But if the positions were so interchangeable then why were the Saints starting Jay Bellamy and leaving Bullocks on the bench early in the season?

If the spots are truly interchangeable then why not play your rookie -- it wasn't like the Saints were going to win games anyway.

And don't ever remember anyone giving the Saints credit for a ever making a "smart decision". We aren't talking about the Steelers here are we?

 

[DLCassidy]

So let's start Coleman who Joyner deemed to be even worse.

Smith currently has 3 teams bidding to bring him in as their starting free safety, including all of his former coaches who he played for at Tampa. How many teams do you think would be bidding on Davis right now to be their starting free safety if he were released today?

Just because another team deems a player to be expendible doesn't mean he's not an upgrade over what we have on this team. Considering the NFL grants teams every opportunity to keep and retain talent they've developed with franchise and transition tags, every player that hits the market is deemed expendible or not worth the money.

Tampa may be planning to have Smith start for them and it would seem he's a good fit there. He's probably better than Will Smith. But if you think Smith is better than either Darren Sharper or Ed Reed you're nuts. Minny and Baltimore can't be offering him starter money. My guess is the reason we didn't bite is we weren't willing to either. Keith Davis is only a 2nd year starter so he should get better.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Keith Davis is only a 2nd year starter so he should get better.

Impossible.

Guys never get better in this league.

Davis.
Petitti.
Watkins.

Never... it doesn't happen.

 

[DLCassidy]

Using KC Joyner as any sort of argument isn't going to help your cause with me.

The guy is grading players, but admits to not seeing all the games, watches a TV feed and doesn't have any idea of the coverages that teams are running.

His work is a slightly more organized approach to guessing.

How many Aint's games did you catch last year?

 

[junk]

A lot of lousy players get great deals... this is the NFL-- it's how this stuff works.

There must be a good reason we're not pursuing him.

Let it go Junk... just let it go.

Hey, I want Dallas to win games and fill holes.

I guess I should just stick my head in the sand and refuse to try to improve the team because I have a man crush on an unproven rookie.

It is admirable the way you stick up for him in this day and age of "height prejudice" in the NFL.

 

[junk]

Tampa may be planning to have Smith start for them and it would seem he's a good fit there. He's probably better than Will Smith. But if you think Smith is better than either Darren Sharper or Ed Reed you're nuts. Minny and Baltimore can't be offering him starter money. My guess is the reason we didn't bite is we weren't willing to either. Keith Davis is only a 2nd year starter so he should get better.

Minny is playing cover 2.

Ed Reed has played SS for the last couple of years already.

 

[junk]

How many Aint's games did you catch last year?

A few. I also caught quite a few bucs games prior to last year.

I also not trying to pawn off incomplete analysis for $60 a pop either.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Hey, I want Dallas to win games and fill holes.

I guess I should just stick my head in the sand and refuse to try to improve the team because I have a man crush on an unproven rookie.

It is admirable the way you stick up for him in this day and age of "height prejudice" in the NFL.

With all this "mean" talk j I don't think I love you as much now.

 

[Fletch]

And don't ever remember anyone giving the Saints credit for a ever making a "smart decision". We aren't talking about the Steelers here are we?

You had to bring up the Steelers, didn't you? I only live in near Pttsburgh.