Dak a Tier-2 QB per NFL Coaches and Execs

[OmerV]

Jeez -- I saw where they actually have Dak rated #12. Gotta admit, I think maybe they're right . . .

You just can be a tier 2 QB and expect to be paid like a #1. Jerry knows better and so does Stephen!

I think Dak could be rated by reasonable people anywhere from #7 to #12. All is probably still outside the #1 tier level, but do we really think if Rodgers were negotiating today he wouldn't ask for more than Dak was asking for, just like Mahomes did? Same for Russell Wilson? As for Brees, maybe the fact he is already 41 years old and wealthy and neither he or the team are thinking of a 4-5 year contract would come into play? Same for Brady who will be 43 in a few days.

My point is fans tend to think of it as if all contracts are negotiated at the same time under the same market conditions and there for contract terms can be based on a ranking of the QB's. That's really not the case, and just because a player might get a contract that is high relative to that of a few players that might be better doesn't mean he is being treated as better than those players, it just means he negotiated more recently under different market conditions than they did.

The kink in the plan Dak's agent had may have been the Covid situation. Facing the possibility of not having a 2020 season and losing a boatload of revenue may well have affected how willing the Cowboys were to bend before the deadline.

 

[glimmerman]

It was the outfit known as The Athletic. They polled various NFL owners, coaches and officials. As a result, they had rated Dak #12 as a QB, as compared to other QBs in the league. Everyone has their own opinion as to how they think he rates. I'm not inclined to begrudge anyone if they don't agree with me. Opinions are just that -- certainly not written in stone. Too many here take it way too seriously. I'd be perfectly happy if Dak proves himself as good or better than any QB around this year. I think that's what the FO wants to find out. We're all entitled to our opinions. That's how is see it, anyway.

Great post. I feel the same. The stats since he has been in the league has been great. At first he was a gamer and lead the league in come backs, now all the sudden he can’t beat a good team. Crazy. I wish we were going to have a normal season. But afraid because of the COVID season they will discount anything he does or whatever he don’t do will be blown up. I don’t see this being a fair season depending on how many player and or coaches miss time or dont play..

 

[CouchCoach]

The simple truth is there are two worth's. There is the worth we think Prescott is and there is one where he thinks he is. He doesn't care about ours.

There is another worth. What is he worth to the Dallas Cowboys? A QB challenged team if not for luck and even then, was Romo really that great a QB or was that a comparison of the swinging door QB's that rolled through there before him? What, exactly, did he accomplish?

Some made the same mistake the Joneses did, they overvalued the QB and thought he was better than he really was. They even admitted they didn't give him what he needed.

So, the best thing to come out of all of this is the Joneses realizing they have to be able to fill out the team around the QB and have probably already screwed that up with the other. contracts. But, it is encouraging that they realize their mistakes. Now, whether they can stop making them and actually build a true contender remains to be seen.

The leverage was all Prescott's, it was handed to him just like PIT did when they gave Rothliesberger and Brown those deals. What Prescott wants isn't based on QB comps across the league but within his own team. That seems to get overlooked by many here and it is the problem they created for themselves.

The irony of saying they need to keep his contract where they can afford support after they've already screwed that up is so Cowboys.

 

[glimmerman]

The simple truth is there are two worth's. There is the worth we think Prescott is and there is one where he thinks he is. He doesn't care about ours.

There is another worth. What is he worth to the Dallas Cowboys? A QB challenged team if not for luck and even then, was Romo really that great a QB or was that a comparison of the swinging door QB's that rolled through there before him? What, exactly, did he accomplish?

Some made the same mistake the Joneses did, they overvalued the QB and thought he was better than he really was. They even admitted they didn't give him what he needed.

So, the best thing to come out of all of this is the Joneses realizing they have to be able to fill out the team around the QB and have probably already screwed that up with the other. contracts. But, it is encouraging that they realize their mistakes. Now, whether they can stop making them and actually build a true contender remains to be seen.

The leverage was all Prescott's, it was handed to him just like PIT did when they gave Rothliesberger and Brown those deals. What Prescott wants isn't based on QB comps across the league but within his own team. That seems to get overlooked by many here and it is the problem they created for themselves.

The irony of saying they need to keep his contract where they can afford support after they've already screwed that up is so Cowboys.

Wonder if other teams have the same problems or make the same mistakes. I get so polarized on my team I don’t pay attention.

 

[CouchCoach]

If he is 12, can they win with that? Can they consistently contend with the 12th ranked QB?

Or do they need to see if they can go top 6? And maybe end up with 18?

This is not a brain trust with a great QB record. Anyone here forgetting who they wanted before Prescott and were willing to trade up for one of them? You want that brain trust picking QB's?

 

[Redball Express]

He is a tier 2...: but I always said that Daks greatest attribute is his willingness too improve and work hard..those are the players that get Rings...we need him to take the level and Jerry will be forced to pay up..

This year yes.

Next year..no.

The cap will change so much next year because of the revenue losses across all teams.

Then there will be some completely different offers going back and forth.

 

[CouchCoach]

Wonder if other teams have the same problems or make the same mistakes. I get so polarized on my team I don’t pay attention.

I think most of them realize every move they make with contracts is first being observed from the inside. Laveon Bell's point was as valid as it gets. He accounted for the greatest % of his team's offensive plays of any player in the league, why should he take less than the WR?

One guy doesn't do that and I believe he is acutely aware of the effect of opening the cash register with so many hands around. He has established that no player will break his formula. He wouldn't tag Trey Flowers, who is as good as Lawrence, because he didn't want that figure to float around his locker room. He knew Collins and Jones would break his formula so he made the move to preempt that.

How could anyone not see this coming? 21M for a DE, 20M for a WR and 15M for a RB, what did anyone here think the QB would want? Not one of those players is the best at their position but they are paid like it so why does a QB relegate himself to 12 ranked money. And I don't think he shares the belief in that ranking.

And what about all of those glowing remarks Booger and the lucky sperm made about the QB. Can't have it both ways. When our mouth gets us in trouble we usually pay for that.

 

[Bullflop]

I do think Stephen made an awful tactical error when he praised Dak to high heaven early-on and then, as an afterthought, lowballed him at the start of bargaining. Nobody with a good sense of how the bargaining process works makes that mistake if he's smart. As soon as a player's agent like Todd France hears that, he's highly encouraged to go for the moon and the stars as a result. They heard Stephen and went for it.

I'm hoping Dak gives a good account of himself this year because, if he doesn't his previous stance won't hold water. I really don't believe the Dallas FO considers him inferior. I think they'd like nothing better than to see him prove himself worth more than their present notion of his worth, though. We'll see what happens this season, assuming everything works out for a season lasting long enough to assess things. Let's hope it does.

 

[OmerV]

Wonder if other teams have the same problems or make the same mistakes. I get so polarized on my team I don’t pay attention.

This is an astute observation most aren't willing to make about themselves, not just on the QB contract issue, but many other things related to the Cowboys. All of us that are serious Cowboy fans naturally pay much more attention to, and have much more of an emotional reaction to, everything related to the Cowboys than we do with issues related to other teams. Fans often ignore that fact and instead assume other teams just don't go through the issues the Cowboys do. Sure, sometimes an issue with the Cowboys may be unique, but most issues are just things that arise with being part of the NFL.

 

[basel90]

Dak is a mediocre QB with mediocre results . If he did not play for the cowboys , no one would have heard or talked about him. I doubt he sees the field if he was behind a proven starter . His luck was that romo got hurt .

 

[CouchCoach]

One thing about it, only for the 3rd time in NFL history a QB is betting it all on himself. He's betting that he will be worth more after this year to his team, or another, and if he loses that bet, may wish he'd taken the deal that was on the table. However, none of us really knows what that deal was.

What I do not agree with is posters getting pissed at the player because he didn't take that deal or even at the Joneses for not getting it done. They just couldn't get it done, for whatever the reason. I don't blame anybody for that.

I gotta say, I am all in on a player betting on himself and this one is doing it back to back, most QB's take that early extension and wouldn't even try that contract year. As if this season didn't have all the drama one would need with will there be a season to a new coaching staff and add the cherry on the sundae, a QB playing for a contract. It's not like the Cowboys need reasons for media coverage but this one could be one for the ages. And that's saying something.

I don't see how anyone here can feel anything but admiration for a player willing to take the chance his taking. On top of that, in this season which has all of the opportunity to go sideways on everyone.

If you know Dak Prescott's background, you know how important his Mom was to him, she was the confidence builder and was always in his corner even when he couldn't beat out the QB1 in high school or college and probably wouldn't have done that in the pros either. She was a bit of a stage door Mom according to his high school coach so she was hands on with his love of the game.

I can't help but believe that hovering above him is Peggy Prescott and the driving force in the decisions he makes in his life. Can't you just hear her? "Dak, don't ever sell yourself short, believe in yourself". I believe this is every bit about that and I do not underestimate the last family tragedy he had to experience affecting his decisions as well. This isn't just about money.

 

[Redball Express]

They came up short in every negotiation then upped their offer later when that was no longer sufficient.
They aren't holding their ground they just really behind.

Next year they'll 35AAV and get laughed at.
Watson will sign for 40M AAV and then Dak will ask for 37-38.

And unless we are in the SB this year..

Dak will go elsewhere where they have no talent to support what he needs to succeed.

About 2 All Pro WRs, an All Pro RB and an OL with at least 2 Pro Bowlers.

No team is going to have all that AND pay Dak $40+mil /yr.

Nope.

Not with a collapsing financial structure like what is happening.

 

[kskboys]

Really? Carson and Jarrod and Kirk says hi Tony Romo says hi. It’s the way of the nfl of recent
I honestly think playing on the tag is best for everyone it gives them 2 years to win it or move on and look for a replacement if necessary. I don’t care either way I just don’t think Dak is nearly as bad as some in here make out

Of course not.

If you're going to evaluate what people are saying about Dak on here, simply remove the top 10 Dak supporters and the top 10 Dak bashers, and you'll start getting more of a true feeling of what he is. Basically, a very few posters obnoxiously and boisterously bash/defend him, when most really believe he's pretty good but not great.

 

[kskboys]

well I read somewhere they offered 25 mil per yr, probably 5 yrs, as the initial offer.
this made dak and france mad, so they inflated their demands, and it all got out of control, due to steve's initial lowball offer.

If that's true, then France should give up being an agent. Offers are made followed by counteroffers, that's how this works. You guys insisting that it was a lowball offer are simply being silly. It was a first volley, I can't for the life of me get why that first offer upsets some people.

And if that's truly the problem, then both Dak and his agent are some childish sonofaguns.

 

[OmerV]

If that's true, then France should give up being an agent. Offers are made followed by counteroffers, that's how this works. You guys insisting that it was a lowball offer are simply being silly. It was a first volley, I can't for the life of me get why that first offer upsets some people.

And if that's truly the problem, then both Dak and his agent are some childish sonofaguns.

I doubt it's true, first because I doubt the initial offer was ever that lowball, unless perhaps that were the offer after the offseason a year ago, but also because, like you said, professionals like France know how negotiations work. Guys like France wouldn't be in their positions if they reacted emotionally rather than accept something like this as a first step in a negotiation.

 

[kskboys]

I doubt it's true, first because I doubt the initial offer was ever that lowball, unless perhaps that were the offer after the offseason a year ago, but also because, like you said, professionals like France know how negotiations work. Guys like France wouldn't be in their positions if they reacted emotionally rather than accept something like this as a first step in a negotiation.

I'm thinking this is simply people placing their own emotions into this contract negotiations. I seriously doubt if Dak/France has either one been very emotional through this whole process.

 

[cern]

If that's true, then France should give up being an agent. Offers are made followed by counteroffers, that's how this works. You guys insisting that it was a lowball offer are simply being silly. It was a first volley, I can't for the life of me get why that first offer upsets some people.

And if that's truly the problem, then both Dak and his agent are some childish sonofaguns.

well said. sometimes when dealing in unknown territory, you have to establish a starting point. the bargaining table is no place for tantrums. often people whose largest negotiation has been an automobile or in some cases a mortgage don't fully understand the problems associated with making 100+ million dollar deals. no way i would ever believe dak and his agent became so incensed at a low offer they would virtually refuse to negotiate.

 

[kskboys]

well said. sometimes when dealing in unknown territory, you have to establish a starting point. the bargaining table is no place for tantrums. often people whose largest negotiation has been an automobile or in some cases a mortgage don't fully understand the problems associated with making 100+ million dollar deals. no way i would ever believe dak and his agent became so incensed at a low offer they would virtually refuse to negotiate.

And it's been amazing watching so many buy into this ultra inane idea and propogate it. Prolly the same ones who built a fort for Y2K.

 

[glimmerman]

I think most of them realize every move they make with contracts is first being observed from the inside. Laveon Bell's point was as valid as it gets. He accounted for the greatest % of his team's offensive plays of any player in the league, why should he take less than the WR?

One guy doesn't do that and I believe he is acutely aware of the effect of opening the cash register with so many hands around. He has established that no player will break his formula. He wouldn't tag Trey Flowers, who is as good as Lawrence, because he didn't want that figure to float around his locker room. He knew Collins and Jones would break his formula so he made the move to preempt that.

How could anyone not see this coming? 21M for a DE, 20M for a WR and 15M for a RB, what did anyone here think the QB would want? Not one of those players is the best at their position but they are paid like it so why does a QB relegate himself to 12 ranked money. And I don't think he shares the belief in that ranking.

And what about all of those glowing remarks Booger and the lucky sperm made about the QB. Can't have it both ways. When our mouth gets us in trouble we usually pay for that.

The money Dak was offered was second highest at his position. Third highest at the most. His agent was asking and I think JJ caved at the end. But I do think they worked out the structure to get this done next year. It will go up a few million and maybe some more guaranteed money. I think Daks deal is about done unless we make the SB. Then it starts over.

 

[cern]

And it's been amazing watching so many buy into this ultra inane idea and propogate it. Prolly the same ones who built a fort for Y2K.

lmao. the rise of the machines. the world would quit spinning on its axis and all life would be destroyed. every year there is still a gathering of those who have predicted the date and time of the world's end.