Dak needs weapons, but these weapons need Dak!

[CTcowboy203]

Mahomes out there dragging a HOF TE and a bunch of early draft pick WRs to the finish line with a top OL was fun to watch. I agree.

Wide receivers that were so good that they had to trade for a receiver in season whose done nothing in his career so far. with a defense with rookies everywhere. 6 win team without him

Cool story. Now stop replying to me

 

[cnuball21]

Wide receivers that were so good that they had to trade for a receiver in season whose done nothing in his career so far. with a defense with rookies everywhere. 6 win team without him

Cool story. Now stop replying to me

Exactly…mid season trade. Always looking to continue to add weapons and talent. Talent acquisition should always be on.

FYI - 10-6 and won the division before Mahomes took over.

The Jones should take a note.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Totally wrong approach. What a qb really need is blocking and a clean pocket. First and foremost.

Then every qb needs a weapon or two he can trust and makes plays.

The great oline play will also translate into a run game.

Cowboy roy is telling dsk fails because of bad blocking. Fine.
But zeke shouldnt have any need for good blocking hes just a bum.

This is why i still use the term zeke hater.

 

[Adreme]

Murray is a culture killer. You must not have been paying attention the last year plus. You taking him over Goff would out you in very small company. Did you watch Goff at all this year? He was great and had DETROIT knocking at the playoff door. Goff is a way better player and a much better person.

1 good year after 3 awful ones does not make you a good player. I am not saying he is a scrub, obviously I have him on the list, but he was simply not good enough for a long time. There is a reason the Rams basically gave him away (and were effectively paying Detroit to take the contract off their hands). Before this year the notion was that they were stuck with him for 2 years when the trade happened.

Either way though even if you do not believe in Murray then there are still 4 alternates who all have reasons to believe in them still meaning that there are at least 15 Super Bowl QBs in the NFL which means half the teams have a shot and the other half simply do not.

 

[khiladi]

The argument you need an OL is true, but Dak fans are trying to re-write the narrative he never had an OL. I said we’d be right back here when we need a rebuild though your OL was in fact completely fine this year, blaming everybody but Dak.

It’s teams like the Giants with Daniel Jones that had horrible OL play.

 

[khiladi]

Rodgers won his Super Bowl with Jennings, Jones, Driver and an up and coming Nelson. So that’s false. GB rolled the dice this year and trotted Rodgers out there without weapons and he was awful…like not in the top 15.

So the benchmark is Brady and Mahomes? Likely The 2 best of all time when it’s all said and done. No.

Last year the Cowboys OL was near the bottom of the barrel in pass pro win rate and Dak had 1 above average receiving option in Lamb. 1 starter WR option that had a positive EPA / play when targeted. Not gonna get it done. Coops last year was the closest roster we’ve had and the OL couldn’t stay healthy and completely broke down during the final stretch. Got whooped by the 49ers.

Pass block win rate is a completely bogus stat to measure the quality of an OL. A OL could let his defender go to be blocked by another lineman and the claim would be the original OL didn’t sustain his block. Plus, 2.5 seconds tells us nothing regarding when the QB released the ball, as less than 3 second release is common and Dak throws almost exclusively out of shotgun and if he’s under center, it’s a quick pass, meaning the pass block win rate tells us nothing really statistical meaningful about Dak’s protection. I could have more plays designed to get the ball out quickly which could obfuscate the numbers

 

[PAPPYDOG]

The argument you need an OL is true, but Dak fans are trying to re-write the narrative he never had an OL. I said we’d be right back here when we need a rebuild though your OL was in fact completely fine this year, blaming everybody but Dak.

It’s teams like the Giants with Daniel Jones that had horrible OL play.

Dak has had it all roster-wise from HB to offline to WR to a top 10 defense and still fell flat when it counted the most.
I laugh at the Dak Zoids as their excuses are off the wall and they are few now and this is sad as the laughter they spread is dwindling every season.
Wait till Moore is rocking with Herbert and they are blaming the new playbook and MM/OC for our offensive woes once again.

 

[khiladi]

Dak has had it all roster-wise from HB to offline to WR to a top 10 defense and still fell flat when it counted the most.
I laugh at the Dak Zoids as their excuses are off the wall and they are few now and this is sad as the laughter they spread is dwindling every season.
Wait till Moore is rocking with Herbert and they are blaming the new playbook and MM/OC for our offensive woes once again.

 

[cnuball21]

Pass block win rate is a completely bogus stat to measure the quality of an OL. A OL could let his defender go to be blocked by another lineman and the claim would be the original OL didn’t sustain his block. Plus, 2.5 seconds tells us nothing regarding when the QB released the ball, as less than 3 second release is common and Dak throws almost exclusively out of shotgun and if he’s under center, it’s a quick pass, meaning the pass block win rate tells us nothing really statistical meaningful about Dak’s protection. I could have more plays designed to get the ball out quickly which could obfuscate the numbers

ESPNs analytics team has done quite a bit to continue to enhance and improve the metric in a few areas over the years…including some of what you referenced. I’d read up on it if you haven’t.

It isn’t the end all be all - but it’s something to reference. Maybe being at the bottom doesn’t mean we’re the worst…but it sure as heck doesn’t mean we’re above average.

 

[Whyjerry]

1 good year after 3 awful ones does not make you a good player. I am not saying he is a scrub, obviously I have him on the list, but he was simply not good enough for a long time. There is a reason the Rams basically gave him away (and were effectively paying Detroit to take the contract off their hands). Before this year the notion was that they were stuck with him for 2 years when the trade happened.

Either way though even if you do not believe in Murray then there are still 4 alternates who all have reasons to believe in them still meaning that there are at least 15 Super Bowl QBs in the NFL which means half the teams have a shot and the other half simply do not.

Do you watch football? His 3 “awful years” were better than Murray last year. He got traded for Matt Stafford, one of the most talented QBs in the league. He has excelled in Detroit the last couple years. Trying watching some football and you will catch on.

 

[birdwells1]

Dak’s had great receiver before and I’m sorry but the receivers aren’t nearly as bad for Dallas as you make them out to be.

Especially considering when there is video evidence of Dak missing wide open guys against San Fran.

So stop blaming wide receivers who are open and aren’t getting the ball.

I'm sorry but no wr not named CeeDee Lamb caught a pass after the 1st play of the second quarter in the SF game. They were bad, how did Noah Brown do in overtime @ the Jaguars, do you really want those hands when it counts? We need proven wrs on this team so guys like Noah can take their rightful place as the #5 wr and special teamer and Gallup can rehab and not be rushed back as to not make the Joneses look bad for the Cooper trade.

Hey where is James Washington anyway!!!!! 1 target no catches but cashing checks though!!! Hey I heard that there's a wr at Southern Alabama that could possibly make us forget about Cooper.....oops...we drafted him last year and he had 2 receptions. Way to go Stephen Jones.

 

[zeke21]

For the Dak haters….

Do you think Dak is terrible or is he just not good enough?

Serious question.

Not many will answer your question.. probably because you lead with 'dak haters'.. which is just another overused insult purposed designed to cause argument.

There may be a few posters who truly 'hate' Dak.. but not many. There is a big difference between believing he shouldn't be our QB and hating the guy.

I also don't see many arguments that he is a terrible QB.. and I don't think he is terrible. I think anyone calling him terrible has either just watched the SF game again or likes to talk in extremes.

I believe that in reality, Dak is probably a very good human being, a great leader and a slightly above average QB on the field. That is actually a pretty good package. That combo will see him consistently ranked around that 12th-16th best in the league. That is nothing to sneeze at.. and a big reason why we have been 'around the mark' for most of Daks tenure.

The point of difference/real issue/pressing trouble is that we are now paying him elite/Top 2 money - which is WAY WAY OVER his value. Even his greatest fan has to admit that he has not lived up to his contract. At no point could you legitimately put him as a top 3 QB in the league.. no way, not even his greatest fan could say that with a straight face.. which means he is, categorically, getting overpaid.

The 'marginal' issue.. and the one that causes most debate is whether a guy that 12th-16th best (irrespective of how much we are paying him and what is around him) could ever be good enough to get the job done. Most of the angst and debate is about what we need to put around Dak to get success. How can you 'nurse' a 12th ranked QB to a SB? How many weapons do you need to give him? What coaches could help scheme him to success? What has to go right?

For me, to answer your question, Dak isn't terrible.. he is just nowhere near good enough to justify his contract and his contract means that we can't have enough talent around him to overcome his shortcomings.. and I believe he has too many weaknesses to ever be good enough to win anything serious. I don't hate the guy.. but I do believe that we need to move on from him ASAP because he is not good enough to win.

 

[cnuball21]

I'm sorry but no wr not named CeeDee Lamb caught a pass after the 1st play of the second quarter in the SF game. They were bad, how did Noah Brown do in overtime @ the Jaguars, do you really want those hands when it counts? We need proven wrs on this team so guys like Noah can take their rightful place as the #5 wr and special teamer and Gallup can rehab and not be rushed back as to not make the Joneses look bad for the Cooper trade.

Hey where is James Washington anyway!!!!! 1 target no catches but cashing checks though!!! Hey I heard that there's a wr at Southern Alabama that could possibly make us forget about Cooper.....oops...we drafted him last year and he had 2 receptions. Way to go Stephen Jones.

You beat SFs defense by attacking their CBs outside. They focused on Lamb and made Gallup and Noah Brown try to beat them and they couldn’t.

Granted, Dak didn’t play well and Kellen calls predictable hitch routes half the game but the WR group we trotted out there was a joke.

 

[DandyDon52]

Exactly how many weapons does Dak need to have success? Shouldn't GOOD QBs be able to take guys who may not be studs, and the turn them into something meaningful?

I hope we get Dak weapons to have deep success this season, but these weapons we get need Dak to be on point and not just say the right things. Please give your thoughts

what dak needs is better coaching, better play designs, and better game plans.
And good luck on getting those.

 

[CATCH17]

You beat SFs defense by attacking their CBs outside. They focused on Lamb and made Gallup and Noah Brown try to beat them and they couldn’t.

Granted, Dak didn’t play well and Kellen calls predictable hitch routes half the game but the WR group we trotted out there was a joke.

Gallup was running open behind the defense and Dak couldn’t give him a decent pass.

TY Hilton was wiiiide open and the ball wasn’t delivered.

Stop trying to pin that game on our wideouts. Our QB was the reason.

 

[DandyDon52]

Not many will answer your question.. probably because you lead with 'dak haters'.. which is just another overused insult purposed designed to cause argument.

There may be a few posters who truly 'hate' Dak.. but not many. There is a big difference between believing he shouldn't be our QB and hating the guy.

I also don't see many arguments that he is a terrible QB.. and I don't think he is terrible. I think anyone calling him terrible has either just watched the SF game again or likes to talk in extremes.

I believe that in reality, Dak is probably a very good human being, a great leader and a slightly above average QB on the field. That is actually a pretty good package. That combo will see him consistently ranked around that 12th-16th best in the league. That is nothing to sneeze at.. and a big reason why we have been 'around the mark' for most of Daks tenure.

The point of difference/real issue/pressing trouble is that we are now paying him elite/Top 2 money - which is WAY WAY OVER his value. Even his greatest fan has to admit that he has not lived up to his contract. At no point could you legitimately put him as a top 3 QB in the league.. no way, not even his greatest fan could say that with a straight face.. which means he is, categorically, getting overpaid.

The 'marginal' issue.. and the one that causes most debate is whether a guy that 12th-16th best (irrespective of how much we are paying him and what is around him) could ever be good enough to get the job done. Most of the angst and debate is about what we need to put around Dak to get success. How can you 'nurse' a 12th ranked QB to a SB? How many weapons do you need to give him? What coaches could help scheme him to success? What has to go right?

For me, to answer your question, Dak isn't terrible.. he is just nowhere near good enough to justify his contract and his contract means that we can't have enough talent around him to overcome his shortcomings.. and I believe he has too many weaknesses to ever be good enough to win anything serious. I don't hate the guy.. but I do believe that we need to move on from him ASAP because he is not good enough to win.

The one thing I will add , is every qb or offense needs good coaching , playbook, game mgmt, game plans.
Without those being good it is hard to be good, and this is what dallas has lacked since 2007.

Dallas should have beaten the giants in 2007 but they had inferior coaches, wade garrett etc. That cost them a shot at a SB run.
Same thing for 2014,2016,2021,2022.
Coaches make a difference, and jerry wont hire a good HC , tries to create a OC in kellen, tried to create a HC with garrett, and he
hires Mike, cause he heard bells, and he says he wants mike here a long time lol.
I dont think mike is a good HC, he is avg, typical nfl HC. Him getting cowboys to a SB is unlikely, and winning one is even more unlikely.

I read here all the time how many weapons does dak need? lol, but how many does Mike need??
It all starts and ends with coaching, not the QB.
And I am not a fan of dak, but no qb can be good consistently, or in big games, with bad coaches.

 

[Whyjerry]

Not many will answer your question.. probably because you lead with 'dak haters'.. which is just another overused insult purposed designed to cause argument.

There may be a few posters who truly 'hate' Dak.. but not many. There is a big difference between believing he shouldn't be our QB and hating the guy.

I also don't see many arguments that he is a terrible QB.. and I don't think he is terrible. I think anyone calling him terrible has either just watched the SF game again or likes to talk in extremes.

I believe that in reality, Dak is probably a very good human being, a great leader and a slightly above average QB on the field. That is actually a pretty good package. That combo will see him consistently ranked around that 12th-16th best in the league. That is nothing to sneeze at.. and a big reason why we have been 'around the mark' for most of Daks tenure.

The point of difference/real issue/pressing trouble is that we are now paying him elite/Top 2 money - which is WAY WAY OVER his value. Even his greatest fan has to admit that he has not lived up to his contract. At no point could you legitimately put him as a top 3 QB in the league.. no way, not even his greatest fan could say that with a straight face.. which means he is, categorically, getting overpaid.

The 'marginal' issue.. and the one that causes most debate is whether a guy that 12th-16th best (irrespective of how much we are paying him and what is around him) could ever be good enough to get the job done. Most of the angst and debate is about what we need to put around Dak to get success. How can you 'nurse' a 12th ranked QB to a SB? How many weapons do you need to give him? What coaches could help scheme him to success? What has to go right?

For me, to answer your question, Dak isn't terrible.. he is just nowhere near good enough to justify his contract and his contract means that we can't have enough talent around him to overcome his shortcomings.. and I believe he has too many weaknesses to ever be good enough to win anything serious. I don't hate the guy.. but I do believe that we need to move on from him ASAP because he is not good enough to win.

The haters deserve the insult. The amount of scorn thrown Dak’s way is ridiculous. He is a good guy that has had some good moments as a Cowboy. His contract was based on what starters were getting. Look at the Murray and Watson deals for comparison. The people, and there are a lot, that think Dak is the reason Dallas won’t win a SB must suffer from collective amnesia because the ONLY constant over the last 28 years is the clownish GM. The same clown looking at OBJ and keeping Zeke. That’s the guy that deserves the hate. Not a renowned good man that just might not be good enough but tries despite the crappy culture that surrounds the Cowboys.

 

[birdwells1]

Gallup was running open behind the defense and Dak couldn’t give him a decent pass.

TY Hilton was wiiiide open and the ball wasn’t delivered.

Stop trying to pin that game on our wideouts. Our QB was the reason.

Really this game was lost in the offseason when they traded Cooper and never got anything to replace him.

Coaches SF or Dallas? SF
GM and front office SFor Dallas? SF

Coaches KC or Dallas? KC
GM and front office KC or Dallas? KC

Coaches Philly or Dallas? Philly
GM and front office Philly or Dallas? Philly

Dak and Romo, for that matter, has never had a coaching or front office advantage.

THIS ORGANIZATION HAS BEEN BLESSED WITH OBTAINING PRO BOWL LEVEL QB PLAY (ROMO AND DAK) FOR 17 YEARS FOR ONLY ONE 4TH ROUND DRAFT PICK AND STILL CAN'T MAKE THE NFCCG!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cnuball21]

Gallup was running open behind the defense and Dak couldn’t give him a decent pass.

TY Hilton was wiiiide open and the ball wasn’t delivered.

Stop trying to pin that game on our wideouts. Our QB was the reason.

Maybe for a play or 2, but that happens in every NFL game with every QB. Sure Dak didn’t play well but that’s almost every QB against SF.

If “our guys” were consistently separating and getting open this thread wouldn’t even exist.

 

[CATCH17]

Really this game was lost in the offseason when they traded Cooper and never got anything to replace him.

Coaches SF or Dallas? SF
GM and front office SFor Dallas? SF

Coaches KC or Dallas? KC
GM and front office KC or Dallas? KC

Coaches Philly or Dallas? Philly
GM and front office Philly or Dallas? Philly

Dak and Romo, for that matter, has never had a coaching or front office advantage.

THIS ORGANIZATION HAS BEEN BLESSED WITH OBTAINING PRO BOWL LEVEL QB PLAY (ROMO AND DAK) FOR 17 YEARS FOR ONLY ONE 4TH ROUND DRAFT PICK AND STILL CAN'T MAKE THE NFCCG!!!!!!!!!!!

We had Cooper for several years. Made no difference.