Dak needs weapons, but these weapons need Dak!

[cnuball21]

You realize this started because I responded to a different poster who referenced mahomes, Brady and Rodgers in the same breath as dak right?

Saying that those 3 guys didn’t have nearly the weapons that dak did? Those guys are unfair comparisons to dak.

Sure, quarterbacks need help but those 3 guys are ceiling raisers just by merely having them on the team. They guarantee you 10 wins, contender status and a playoff birth for the overwhelmingly large % of their career.

You keep going back to last year with Rodgers - again he’s 38 and on the down slope of his career.

That’s fine…I’ve never claimed Dak was as good as any of those guys in their prime.

I posed the question what QB has made a big run without weapons? Brady aside I’ve heard crickets. My question / argument has nothing to do with Dak.

Yes, Rodgers may be on the decline but didn’t he win the MVP or was a top vote getter the year before? And you can call him a team raiser all you want, but again, when did he elevate his team to a Super Bowl without weapons? It never happened.

 

[cnuball21]

On the other hand, maybe average players become weapons because their QB knows how to utilize them.

Maybe, but the pedigree of their weapons is still rock solid. It’s not a bunch of late rounders and UDFAs. Here’s your last 3 Super Bowl winners:

Chiefs
- 1st ballot HOF TE
- Traded for 1st round WR
- Moore and JuJu (2nd round WRs)
- FA WR MVS

Rams
- Kupp (all pro)
- OBJ (all pro)
- Van Jefferson (2nd rounder)

Bucs
- AB (HOFr)
- Evans (1st round)
- Godwin (3rd round)
- Gronk (HOFr)

 

[CTcowboy203]

That’s fine…I’ve never claimed Dak was as good as any of those guys in their prime.

I posed the question what QB has made a big run without weapons? Brady aside I’ve heard crickets. My question / argument has nothing to do with Dak.

Yes, Rodgers may be on the decline but didn’t he win the MVP or was a top vote getter the year before? And you can call him a team raiser all you want, but again, when did he elevate his team to a Super Bowl without weapons? It never happened.

I mean do you need to hear crickets to know that mahomes just did it? I’m old enough to remember 2 weeks ago.

Perhaps I over estimated you. I guess I’m even confused why are you replying to me at all….this conversation started because someone else said mahomes and Rodgers had less help than dak.

My counterpoint is that those guys are (Brady mahomes Rodgers) are in a league by themselves so any comparisons to those 3 guys really is built on a faulty premise

 

[cnuball21]

I mean do you need to hear crickets to know that mahomes just did it? I’m old enough to remember 2 weeks ago.

Perhaps I over estimated you

Chiefs
- 1st ballot HOF TE
- Traded for 1st round WR
- Moore and JuJu (2nd round WRs)
- FA WR MVS

Still waiting.

 

[CTcowboy203]

Chiefs
- 1st ballot HOF TE
- Traded for 1st round WR
- Moore and JuJu (2nd round WRs)
- FA WR MVS

Still waiting.

The first round receiver that did nothing in New York?

Ju ju and Moore both receivers who were not productive enough that they needed to go out and make a trade in season as you mentioned?….way to contradict yourself.

Where a guy was drafted doesn’t matter the day they play in the league. So you can say 2nd round wide receivers and first round wide receiver all day but if their production isn’t matching where they were picked- who cares. Tolbert was a 3rd rounder and he sucked this year.

Mahomes once again elevated and put the team on his back. Toney was nothing in New York- comes to the chiefs and becomes productive. Coincidence? I think not.

This is such a silly argument. By any metric those 3 guys are generational all time greats who make you a contender by merely having them. Of course they need help- but they need significantly less than 80% of quarterbacks who have played before them.

My point is and was a correct one- that comparing daks situation with those guys is silly. Your just buzzing around like a little gnat for what reason- I don’t know.

Take mahomes off the chiefs and they are a 4-6 win team. Brady made a career of it. Rodgers again- I listed several receivers careers who he made.

 

[Shane612]

Maybe, but the pedigree of their weapons is still rock solid. It’s not a bunch of late rounders and UDFAs. Here’s your last 3 Super Bowl winners:

Chiefs
- 1st ballot HOF TE
- Traded for 1st round WR
- Moore and JuJu (2nd round WRs)
- FA WR MVS

Rams
- Kupp (all pro)
- OBJ (all pro)
- Van Jefferson (2nd rounder)

Bucs
- AB (HOFr)
- Evans (1st round)
- Godwin (3rd round)
- Gronk (HOFr)

Fair enough...
You can also name plenty of solid WRs who were selected in later rounds of the draft. And some who weren't drafted at all.

 

[cnuball21]

The first round receiver that did nothing in New York?

Ju ju and Moore both receivers who were not productive enough that they needed to go out and make a trade in season as you mentioned?….way to contradict yourself.

Where a guy was drafted doesn’t matter the day they play in the league. So you can say 2nd round wide receivers and first round wide receiver all day but if their production isn’t matching where they were picked- who cares. Tolbert was a 3rd rounder and he sucked this year.

Mahomes once again elevated and put the team on his back. Toney was nothing in New York- comes to the chiefs and becomes productive. Coincidence? I think not.

This is such a silly argument. By any metric those 3 guys are generational all time greats who make you a contender by merely having them. Of course they need help- but they need significantly less than 80% of quarterbacks who have played before them.

My point is and was a correct one- that comparing daks situation with those guys is silly. Your just buzzing around like a little gnat for what reason- I don’t know.

Take mahomes off the chiefs and they are a 4-6 win team. Brady made a career of it. Rodgers again- I listed several receivers careers who he made.

Toney scored a TD in the Super Bowl and had a game changing punt return. JuJu was arguably the top WR this year for them outside of Kelce and Moore was a rookie.

Mahomes is obviously elite, but the difference in us and the Chiefs is how they effectively run the team. Lost the Super Bowl a few years ago due to OL play immediately made it a strength. Move on from Hill - immediately add vet WRs and draft a WR early to contribute.

Meanwhile in Dallas we let one of our top WRs walk, extended a WR coming off a big injury and then drafted a 3rd rounder expecting him to contribute big year 1.

See the difference?

 

[cnuball21]

Fair enough...
You can also name plenty of solid WRs who were selected in later rounds of the draft. And some who weren't drafted at all.

Of course. You can find good players in any round. The point is even good QBs (better than Dak) need weapons to win.

Outside of Brady, no one is out there dragging bad WRs across the finish line to Super Bowl wins.

So whether you like Dak or not, this is a major problem that needs to get fixed. Whether it’s to help Dak out or the next QB. It’s not a Dak thing, it’s how to build a contender thing.

 

[CowboyRoy]

that’s ridiculous. Go look at the receivers that Leave Green Bay and never do anything again. Cobb, Nelson, Jennings, James jones.

Over the course of his career he has elevated teams multiple multiple times. Same with Brady and same with mahomes. Having Rodgers on your team means 10 wins and the playoffs for majority of his career just because you have him.

Sure, at 38 he can’t do it at as high as a level as he once did- that’s not really a knock on him. We literally just watched a great quarterback do it on his own this year.

Is it much harder? Absolutely. There’s no question about it but these 3 guys have shown over their career just having them on your team makes you a contender.

Always get a kick out of guys like you trying to convince the world that having a QB like Mahomes, Brady, or Rogers is better or what we need.

Ever see a captain obvious commercial? Thats pretty much how most look at your post.

So what is your point exactly? Mahomes isnt walking through that door. Brady just retired and Dak and the Cowboys just smoked him in the playoffs. Rogers salary is 40 million next year and we would have to give up lots of trade assets to get his old version. Then we still have Dak. If we cut him or trade him there is something like 50 million in dead cap money.

So again, that idea doesnt work. Any other bright ideas?

Here's an idea. How about we draft a guard in the first round, WR and RB in the next two rounds, sign a good RB cheap in FA, and sign a stud DT.

Seems a lot easier to me then starting your entire team over on a whim that we can strike gold on the next Mahomes.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Toney scored a TD in the Super Bowl and had a game changing punt return. JuJu was arguably the top WR this year for them outside of Kelce and Moore was a rookie.

Mahomes is obviously elite, but the difference in us and the Chiefs is how they effectively run the team. Lost the Super Bowl a few years ago due to OL play immediately made it a strength. Move on from Hill - immediately add vet WRs and draft a WR early to contribute.

Meanwhile in Dallas we let one of our top WRs walk, extended a WR coming off a big injury and then drafted a 3rd rounder expecting him to contribute big year 1.

See the difference?

Other than Mahomes the difference is that KC Oline and Andy Ried. 2 more monster differences. You put Mahomes on the Cowboys with Moore as the OC, Zeke as the featured back, and our Oline from last year and Mahomes doesnt win diddly either.

Give Dak our team with Mahomes Oline and Ried and were a top favorite to win it all.

 

[CTcowboy203]

Toney scored a TD in the Super Bowl and had a game changing punt return. JuJu was arguably the top WR this year for them outside of Kelce and Moore was a rookie.

Mahomes is obviously elite, but the difference in us and the Chiefs is how they effectively run the team. Lost the Super Bowl a few years ago due to OL play immediately made it a strength. Move on from Hill - immediately add vet WRs and draft a WR early to contribute.

Meanwhile in Dallas we let one of our top WRs walk, extended a WR coming off a big injury and then drafted a 3rd rounder expecting him to contribute big year 1.

See the difference?

You realize…at least I hope you do that we are almost saying the same exact thing. The only difference I’m saying is you can’t use those 3 quarterbacks as comparisons for other teams- it’s apples to oranges. Not apples to apples.

again for the umpteenth time now I’m sayin that using those guys as benchmarks in this comparison is foolish because if those 3 need help in some regards than dak certainly does. Of course how our organization builds the team matters. The difference for those quarterbacks teams is there’s less work to do because the floor is already higher for them than us, simply because they have those mvp quarterbacks.

Your points about toney making plays in the superbowl -doesn’t change the fact that he wasn’t making any plays like that Before mahomes. That’s why these guys are great they take average to good receivers and make them difference makers in huge games. I’m not saying they’ll never ever make plays like toney did with the punt return but they are aided greatly by being with HOF qbs.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Dak needs to be carried, he doesn't have the ability to make lesser players better.

Amazing. So how did we lead the NFL in scoring with Dak at QB? How did Wilson get a big payday last year? Cobb got a huge payday after coming here. Lamb sure looked good. Shultz? The guy is about to cash in. Who was that body catcher guy that disappeared from the NFL after he left here? That might have been Romo.

If you dont like Dak, thats your choice, but dont make up lies.

 

[cnuball21]

Other than Mahomes the difference is that KC Oline and Andy Ried. 2 more monster differences. You put Mahomes on the Cowboys with Moore as the OC, Zeke as the featured back, and our Oline from last year and Mahomes doesnt win diddly either.

Give Dak our team with Mahomes Oline and Ried and were a top favorite to win it all.

100%.

KC has a better coach, OL and weapons.

Obviously Mahomes is in a league of his own but they’re clearly continuing to add resources and weapons to set him up for success.

Meanwhile Dak was throwing to Dennis freaking Houston week 1.

 

[CTcowboy203]

Always get a kick out of guys like you trying to convince the world that having a QB like Mahomes, Brady, or Rogers is better or what we need.

Ever see a captain obvious commercial? Thats pretty much how most look at your post.

So what is your point exactly? Mahomes isnt walking through that door. Brady just retired and Dak and the Cowboys just smoked him in the playoffs. Rogers salary is 40 million next year and we would have to give up lots of trade assets to get his old version. Then we still have Dak. If we cut him or trade him there is something like 50 million in dead cap money.

So again, that idea doesnt work. Any other bright ideas?

Here's an idea. How about we draft a guard in the first round, WR and RB in the next two rounds, sign a good RB cheap in FA, and sign a stud DT.

Seems a lot easier to me then starting your entire team over on a whim that we can strike gold on the next Mahomes.

That’s actually not what I’m saying at all but thanks for giving us a glimpse into your reading comprehension skills.

If you’ve followed me here at all you’d realize that I’m a proponent of keeping dak around because I know how hard it is to find even average quarterback play. I remember the Henson, Vinny, Quincy days. Franchise guys aren’t easily replaced.

you think you are being articulate with your sarcasm but with each paragraph you just keep exposing yourself. I’m advocating for putting as many pieces around dak as possible and fixing up as many holes as we can.

I’m simply saying using mahomes Rodgers or Brady in this discussion is irrelevant because those guys need much less help than what we need here with dak because they are so rare to find at quarterback.

Thanks for playing though

 

[birdwells1]

This. We need everything better for it to work with Dak.

The problem is there is a salary cap and we’ll
Never have a perfect team with a guy like him making elite QB money.

These are the teams that made the divisional round of the playoffs

Cowboys
Giants
Eagles
SF
KC
Cincy
Bills
Jags

The Giants and Cowboys had the worst WR groups of them all and they scored 7 and 12 points respectively.

Mahomes is the best qb in the league but when they traded Tyreek Hill, they didn't say "Pat just take Micole Hardeman and some jags and go win the super bowl because your good enough to elevate anyone". No the went got JuJu, MVS, traded for Kadarius Toney and drafted Sky Moore, all those guys played an important role for them in the playoffs and Super Bowl. What did the Cowboys do? Traded Cooper for a 5th round pick and replaced him with James Washington and Jalen Tolbert while signing Gallup to a big deal coming off ACL surgery and elevating Noah Brown from wr #5 to wr #2.

THIS FRONT OFFICE FAILED THIS TEAM AND ITS FANS ONCE AGAIN!!!!!

 

[CowboyRoy]

You realize…at least I hope you do that we are almost saying the same exact thing. The only difference I’m saying is you can’t use those 3 quarterbacks as comparisons for other teams- it’s apples to oranges. Not apples to apples.

again for the umpteenth time now I’m sayin that using those guys as benchmarks in this comparison is foolish because if those 3 need help in some regards than dak certainly does. Of course how our organization builds the team matters. The difference for those quarterbacks teams is there’s less work to do because the floor is already higher for them than us, simply because they have those mvp quarterbacks.

Your points about toney making plays in the superbowl -doesn’t change the fact that he wasn’t making any plays like that Before mahomes. That’s why these guys are great they take average to good receivers and make them difference makers in huge games. I’m not saying they’ll never ever make plays like toney did with the punt return but they are aided greatly by being with HOF qbs.

Toney never did anything because he was always hurt. In NY and even this year with KC.

Kudos to Ried for creating a scheme to get all these guys the ball and get them open. Kudos to Mahomes for making the plays and getting they the ball.

Cowboys dont have either.

So how do you beat a Mahomes? better have a top 3 defense and better be able to run the ball. Thats what the Cowboys need to focus on. Because Dak isnt Mahomes and the next Mahomes is near impossible to find.

 

[Adreme]

Murray a SB QB…that’s hysterical.

I would take Murray over Goff and Goff has been to a Super Bowl. Heck I would take Murray over Tua and they looked great with all the weapons Miami got. Its all about surrounding your talented QB with weapons. Get a SB level QB and then load up the roster and the teams with the most loaded rosters tend to advance furthest in the playoffs.

 

[CowboyRoy]

That’s actually not what I’m saying at all but thanks for giving us a glimpse into your reading comprehension skills.

If you’ve followed me here at all you’d realize that I’m a proponent of keeping dak around because I know how hard it is to find even average quarterback play. I remember the Henson, Vinny, Quincy days. Franchise guys aren’t easily replaced.

you think you are being articulate with your sarcasm but with each paragraph you just keep exposing yourself. I’m advocating for putting as many pieces around dak as possible and fixing up as many holes as we can.

I’m simply saying using mahomes Rodgers or Brady in this discussion is irrelevant because those guys need much less help than what we need here with dak because they are so rare to find at quarterback.

Thanks for playing though

LOL......No I dont "follow' you. Just see a guy complaining about not having Mahomes like the rest of the QB challenged fans.

And NO Mahomes and all those need help. They need great coaching great Olines, and weapons. Heck they even need defenses too.

Do they need less than a Romo or Dak? Sure.

Mahomes at this time has more than Dak has. Hurts has more, Purdy has more.


And AGAIN..............who cares that those guys are better and are the best. THOSE guys arent here in dallas. Why are you telling us this? You think we dont know? LOL

Like your some kind of guru pointing out to us all how good Mahomes is. LOL



WAAAAAAAA!!! We dont have Mahomes. WAAAA!!! Dak isnt Mahomes.......WAAAAA!!! Dak needs everything perfect around him...................................WAAAAAA!!!!

 

[cnuball21]

You realize…at least I hope you do that we are almost saying the same exact thing. The only difference I’m saying is you can’t use those 3 quarterbacks as comparisons for other teams- it’s apples to oranges. Not apples to apples.

again for the umpteenth time now I’m sayin that using those guys as benchmarks in this comparison is foolish because if those 3 need help in some regards than dak certainly does. Of course how our organization builds the team matters. The difference for those quarterbacks teams is there’s less work to do because the floor is already higher for them than us, simply because they have those mvp quarterbacks.

Your points about toney making plays in the superbowl -doesn’t change the fact that he wasn’t making any plays like that Before mahomes. That’s why these guys are great they take average to good receivers and make them difference makers in huge games. I’m not saying they’ll never ever make plays like toney did with the punt return but they are aided greatly by being with HOF qbs.

Why not? The fact those 3 are in a class of their own, and that their best success has been when they’ve had weapons, all but hammers my point home.

We’re not ranking QBs and comparing them…we’re talking about building a roster and how QBs don’t win Super Bowls when they don’t have weapons in todays NFL.

It’s a very easy concept.

 

[CTcowboy203]

Toney never did anything because he was always hurt. In NY and even this year with KC.

Kudos to Ried for creating a scheme to get all these guys the ball and get them open. Kudos to Mahomes for making the plays and getting they the ball.

Cowboys dont have either.

So how do you beat a Mahomes? better have a top 3 defense and better be able to run the ball. Thats what the Cowboys need to focus on. Because Dak isnt Mahomes and the next Mahomes is near impossible to find.

LOL......No I dont "follow' you. Just see a guy complaining about not having Mahomes like the rest of the QB challenged fans.

And NO Mahomes and all those need help. They need great coaching great Olines, and weapons. Heck they even need defenses too.

Do they need less than a Romo or Dak? Sure.

Mahomes at this time has more than Dak has. Hurts has more, Purdy has more.

Again….exposing yourself. Im not complaining about not having a mahomes. Im literally saying the opposite lol

Those guys are haileys comets. They come around every once in a blue. I also agree with getting dak more weapons.

Know what you are talking about before you quote me