Dak Prescott "Garbage time stats" Question

[charron]

I have noticed a common theme here when it comes to Dak. There are 2 sides of the fence. Those that like him and see that he can lead this team to a Super Bowl. And those that dont like him, no matter how he performs for whatever their reasons are.

Now with that being said. My question hinges on certain statements I have seen on this board about his "garbage time stats".

Now people like to say he pads his stats etc. But the same people then sit there and say he threw a game ending pick to seal the win for the other team.

Now correct me if I am wrong here, but if he is just padding his stats in garbage time. How is he throwing a game ending pick? I mean the game is already over in your eyes. It cant be both. So either he is getting garbage time stats and padding his resume, or he is playing to win and throwing a game ending pick. Pick one. It cant be both.

It can be both. When the cleveland game was close we struggled to move the ball. When they went into more prevent defense we scored 24 points in 8 1/2 minutes untill they clamped down again. It's great we score 38 points in a loss, yippie. Offense shouldn't be blamed for the loss but he aint no hero either.

 

[CWR]

If you have to ask the question you’re not watching enough film. Look at what CLE’s defense was doing in quarters 1 to 3, versus what they were doing in the 4th with a four TD lead.

No part of their 4th quarter defense allowed Dak to cut the lead to 3. If you are to tell me you saw prevent defense at the beginning of our run and even half way through then Ill believe you, but were they really still running the same defense when the lead was cut in half? Did you actually watch the film or not? People made this same argument against Seattle and Atlanta and it has already been debunked.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I have noticed a common theme here when it comes to Dak. There are 2 sides of the fence. Those that like him and see that he can lead this team to a Super Bowl. And those that dont like him, no matter how he performs for whatever their reasons are.

Now with that being said. My question hinges on certain statements I have seen on this board about his "garbage time stats".

Now people like to say he pads his stats etc. But the same people then sit there and say he threw a game ending pick to seal the win for the other team.

Now correct me if I am wrong here, but if he is just padding his stats in garbage time. How is he throwing a game ending pick? I mean the game is already over in your eyes. It cant be both. So either he is getting garbage time stats and padding his resume, or he is playing to win and throwing a game ending pick. Pick one. It cant be both.

On those that say he threw the pick and sealed the loss is Prescott really or more to blame or Cooper? But I'm one of those that say they aren't garbage time stats but a QB doing whatever he can to come back and win. Even if the chances are slim I'd rather have a QB that never gives up than one that will just go through the motions and has given up.
.
.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

This is your defense of the offense - “ all teams do this” - did the Tampa Bay Bucs turn the ball over in 3 games on back to back possessions? Yea the defense sucks thanks to a combination of lack of talent and injury but your slavish devotion to the offense putting the defense in bad spots is laughable. Three weeks in a row this offense has coughed the ball up and put the defense in a bad spot, three weeks in a row that has led to the team getting behind early. Hell the game against the Browns and Seahawks was almost identical, first quarter start off and the teams each score, game is tied and the Cowboys have a chance to go into half time tied or up if they hold on to the ball and score. They cough it up and go down to the Seahawks, then come out in the 3rd and proceed to turn the ball over in the first possession. Same thing against the Browns, two quick turn overs in a blink of an eye you go from 14-14 to 28-14. Whip on the defense all you like but at what point do you hold the offense accountable or is that not allowed in the era of Saint Dak?

its not a defense of what has happene, its reality of NFL which you want to conveniently ignore.

so if you say back to back, would you be ok if that was only one? or would you be here and argue we had a turnover? I mean we are in the middle of the pack in the league in offensive turnovers....

and lets say that it was only one turnover...so the score would have been 41 instead of 49....is that your point. 41 points is acceptable?

and like I said, reality check...Tampa threw a pick 6....yet they over came....

and this offense know how bad this defense sucks. they know if they don't take risks, if they don't push, if they don't score in bunches, we have zero chance of winning. they played against these guys in practice and fully understand how much they suck.

and lets not forget the shambles that's the OL. we have an UDFA playing RT and last week another one playing LT. looney is in and out of the line up and we were forced to kick Martin to tackle, who has never played the position. yet you complain of a strip sack because a DE waltz through the tackle whiffing in his blocking and strip sacked the QB......you want to come up with excuses for defense and injuries. what about the OL and offense? we lost Jarwin. we lost collins. we lost smith for a couple of games. looney is lost. fredrick is lost. this OL is a mess.

and where is defensive culpability in stopping anyone....lets say the offense coughed it up...shiet happens in football...not an excuse but a FACT of NFL. isn't the defense supposed to step up and make a stop? the fact, undeniable....8 possessions. 7 scores by the browns. ....even if zeke didn't fumble. it would have been 7 possessions and 6 scores perhaps. is that acceptable? is giving up 24 points by halftime acceptable? is it the offenses fault the defense gave up 300 yards rushing...freaking 300 yards.....that has nothing to do with turnovers, fumbles, or anything else.....

and lastly, you made your agenda very very clear. this is all about Dak bashing.....you want to criticize the offense, and tie that into Dak and how he is the cause of the losses.

FACTS. we scored 38, 31, 40, 17. should be good enough to win 3 games at least...yet...defense gave up 49, 38, 39 and 20...
take away those fumbles and still historically bad defense and still we lose those games.

FACTS. Cowboys are middle of the pack in Interceptions...2 of which came in desparation throws at the end of the game.....meaning no interceptions in the middle of the game, so that excuse of yours doesn't cut it.

you want to attack and criticize Dak please do, but at least come up with legitimate points to do so. or just come out blatantly and do so. you have issues with his contract, then just come out and say that, but the spin you are trying to go for, makes ZERO sense. none what so ever.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Garbage time stats is the new "He's dink and dunk". ITs stupid and inaccurate and LAZY.

 

[Vtwin]

The dynamic changes when a team has a big lead. The 'edge' the players have, dulls a bit when the game seems to be in hand. The strategy on both sides of the ball changes from attack the opposition to defend the lead. The strategy of the losing team changes to desperation mode, no-huddle which isn't a viable strategy to use unless circumstances warrant it.

'Desperation mode' offense produces against 'defend the lead' defense. The score tightens. Losing team is able to get a stop on winning team's 'defend the lead' offense. Cycle repeats. Suddenly, the lead is not so big anymore and there is hope. By now the swagger the winning team had through three quarters is gone and with it the momentum.

"Garbage time" can exist for a period of time but due to the above, be replaced with "Oh Crap" time at the end.

"Prevent defense prevents you from winning" is a phrase I've heard all my football life. It's not always true of course but there is a reason it is so often said.

 

[Swagger]

there lies in the problem. wentz never showed anything before....its just that Dak detractors put him on a pedestal to knock Dak....I never thought wentz was that great over the past few years.plus he is injury prone and will probably end up on the bench sometimes this season.

and to your second point. with those recievers, we are making the pass plays. the shoddy OL can't block, can't run block, can't really pass block and thus we have seen a couple of strip sacks, as the tackles have sucked egg really bad for a couple of games. so not sure what you expect....

and so tell me why you haven't made one criticism of defense...historically bad defense.

The previous three seasons Wentz had thrown 81 touchdowns to 21 interceptions. Pretty much a 4:1 TD/INT ratio. That's impressive to me. He was also the overwhelming league MVP favourite with the bookies (4/11 from memory) until he blew his knee out with 2-3 games remaining in 2017/18. Wentz has historically had injury issues. Those are all statements of fact without any emotional bias either way.

How do you expect the defense to perform with the vast majority of investment in terms of premium picks and % of the salary cap invested into the offense? Especially after we let an All Pro Corner walk who we had drafted! You couldn't make this up.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Wentz has been way below the level he previously showed and looked awful at times this season but his wide receiving Corp and o line has been decimated. It's not like he's a progress stopper in an otherwise excellent offense. It's an all round struggle for them.

Yes our o line is banged up but we still have two 1st round receivers and a legit WR2 playing.

Yeah, I know, when other teams have injuries it's the reason the teams don't do well, when the Cowboys have injuries it's not supposed to affect them.

 

[Swagger]

NE turned the ball over twice and only gave up 19 points to the cheifs.

And crucially...they lost the game largely due to the turnovers.

 

[Established1971]

I have noticed a common theme here when it comes to Dak. There are 2 sides of the fence. Those that like him and see that he can lead this team to a Super Bowl. And those that dont like him, no matter how he performs for whatever their reasons are.

Now with that being said. My question hinges on certain statements I have seen on this board about his "garbage time stats".

Now people like to say he pads his stats etc. But the same people then sit there and say he threw a game ending pick to seal the win for the other team.

Now correct me if I am wrong here, but if he is just padding his stats in garbage time. How is he throwing a game ending pick? I mean the game is already over in your eyes. It cant be both. So either he is getting garbage time stats and padding his resume, or he is playing to win and throwing a game ending pick. Pick one. It cant be both.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Hennessy_King]

And crucially...they lost the game largely due to the turnovers.

does your back hurt from carrying the goal post around?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

95% of people have picked their side and and sticking to it... there is no rational debate... the other 5% sees his flaws and strengths and just sit back shaking their heads and how ridiculous both sides look.

Dak's not the problem.

Correction - Dak's not THE problem. Sure he needs to cut out or cut way down on turnovers, but he's had a LOT of help in getting to 1-3...

 

[Hennessy_King]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

So glad you could add so much great insight. But it's what to be expected

 

[Swagger]

I don't have an issue with Prescott.

But my point is I would draft a first round QB on a rookie contract (I wanted Herbert this season) and use the money saved on Prescott to be used on a pass rusher in free agency like Za'darius Smith, a top Safety and a coverage corner.

In hindsight would I want the Lawrence contract on the books...of course not, nobody would but that's been and gone. We can't really change that now as realistically who is going to trade for him on that contract with his shoulder history?

We need to stop the bleeding at some point to improve the roster, especially on the defensive side and it either starts with Prescott or...it's rinse and repeat.

 

[zerofill]

Technically, he isn't padding his stats. He just happens to be against completely inept defenses, as far as pass defense goes.

So is he intentionally padding stats? I don't believe so... unless someone has evidence of a lot of audibles out of run plays.

But, he doesn't have a very good track record with teams that do have a pass defense.

Teams like the Chiefs, GB, etc... right now they are imposing their will. It really doesn't matter if you are the best pass defense in the league, Mahomes is going to make some insane throws.
Same with Rodgers seemingly returning to form.

Regardless of what people say, Dak has time to throw. More time than Mahomes, and Rodgers. With those types of QBs, if you do bring the heat and rush them, they will make you pay.

We also have a better receiving group than any of those teams.

You have Cooper, Lamb, Gallup, Wilson at WR...
You have Schultz, and Zeke as other options...

It is virtually impossible for one of these guys to not be NFL open.

Does anyone here have any doubts on what Mahomes and Rodgers could do with this receiving group no matter who we are playing?

If you don't have any doubts, you have just become a Dak hater.

That being said.. Have you ever watched elite QBs play? DBs watch QBs... People like Mahomes, Rodgers, even this Justin Herbert use their eyes, and body language, and
throw DBs off... even if it is just for a fraction of a second, and then they pull the trigger.

Dak is falling into a pattern here lately, where he is literally staring the target down the whole friggin play.

Just like Colin Kaepernick... The reason he isn't on the field has nothing to do with the other garbage, and everything to do with the fact that he is a 1 read QB.

The only reason it is working is because of the crap defensive secondaries we have been lucky enough to play.

There have been a lot of elite QBs that rarely threw over 280 yards a game. Because there is so much more to being an elite QB than yards.

Like I said, if you believe people like Mahomes, and Rodgers would do more with this receiving group we have, then you agree that Dak is not elite.

• Do his teammates like him? Yes
• Does he have intangibles? Yes
• Is he durable? Yes
• Can you win with him? Yes
• Is he great or elite? No

He has average arm talent, and below average speed through progressions.

But he happens to be on a team, that has a lot of talent on offense around him, and has been playing against abysmal secondaries.

Just really disappointing to be a fan of the most valuable franchise in sports, and never having that truly elite talent behind center.

While also, seeming to rarely have a defense worth anything.

• I also don't understand why this team completely gives up on the running game.
• I don't understand why we have a DE with an elite contract that can't do anything.
• I don't understand why we paid a LB crazy money, that can't seem to produce either.
• I don't understand why a player gone for 4 seasons is the best player on our defense.

While, I don't feel Dak is elite in any way... This team has so many problems, in so many areas... it is just astounding.

 

[Hennessy_King]

I don't have an issue with Prescott.

But my point is I would draft a first round QB on a rookie contract (I wanted Herbert this season) and use the money saved on Prescott to be used on a pass rusher in free agency like Za'darius Smith, a top Safety and a coverage corner.

In hindsight would I want the Lawrence contract on the books...of course not, nobody would but that's been and gone. We can't really change that now as realistically who is going to trade for him on that contract with his shoulder history?

We need to stop the bleeding at some point to improve the roster and it either starts with Prescott or...it's rinse and repeat.

Prescott is playing like a top 10 qb. possibly top 5. I get what you are saying because you are right we have a lot of holes to fill especially on defense. But it's a huge gamble

 

[Swagger]

Prescott is playing like a top 10 qb. possibly top 5. I get what you are saying because you are right we have a lot of holes to fill especially on defense. But it's a huge gamble

I will hold my hands up and agree that Prescott has been playing like a top 5-10 QB this season. But he/we have no chance to win anything substantial until the defense is improved upon. I will be interested to see what happens in the off season as he can dine out over this stats from this season and last and earn a load more money elsewhere as I doubt we will franchise tag him again. It's either a long term deal here or he goes elsewhere.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

The dynamic changes when a team has a big lead. The 'edge' the players have, dulls a bit when the game seems to be in hand. The strategy on both sides of the ball changes from attack the opposition to defend the lead. The strategy of the losing team changes to desperation mode, no-huddle which isn't a viable strategy to use unless circumstances warrant it.

'Desperation mode' offense produces against 'defend the lead' defense. The score tightens. Losing team is able to get a stop on winning team's 'defend the lead' offense. Cycle repeats. Suddenly, the lead is not so big anymore and there is hope. By now the swagger the winning team had through three quarters is gone and with it the momentum.

"Garbage time" can exist for a period of time but due to the above, be replaced with "Oh Crap" time at the end.

"Prevent defense prevents you from winning" is a phrase I've heard all my football life. It's not always true of course but there is a reason it is so often said.

Yes, people tend not to remember when the "prevent" defense actually works and the team that does that wins the game. It's not as dramatic as blowing a lead when you play the "prevent" defense. That people remember. But don't take my word for it:

Hall of Fame coach John Madden:

“The only time that fans don’t like prevent defense is when it doesn’t work,” Madden said. “When it does work, you don’t even notice it. It’s like good officials and a well-officiated game, you don’t notice them at all. If you have poor officials, then the whole game is based on officiating.

“If the prevent works, no one ever talks about it or writes about it or mentions it.”

That said, Madden never liked the prevent.

“I thought it made the players play too conservatively,” he said. “Pretty soon they’re aware of everything and doing nothing. But I bet if you did the statistics on it, the amount of times that you use it and it works and you win the game would be a pretty high percentage.”

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Besides, there's no fixed formula for a prevent defense, generally it involves dropping more into coverage, dropping deeper and putting less into rushing. So to say the prevent didn't work doesn't mean they did it correctly, maybe they dropped too deep, didn't rush enough, etc. What aggravates me is when a team just rushes 3 against a top quarterback, especially a mobile one. Gives the quarterback way too much time, no defense can consistently cover every receiver for 6-8-10 seconds while the quarterback peruses the defense at his leisure...

 

[nobody]

Correction - Dak's not THE problem. Sure he needs to cut out or cut way down on turnovers, but he's had a LOT of help in getting to 1-3...

Sure, he's made mistakes. All QB's do. He needs to minimize them and try to help keep them from having to play catch up so much, but like Romo, he's not the problem. It's the team culture. It's the defense. He's contributed, but is very good. It's a huge combo of things all at once. The off-season issues because of Covid, the new coaching staff, Jerry's culture, etc.