Dak Ranked 9 on Chris Simms QB Big Board

[erod]

Mahomes
Brady
Rodgers
Allen
R. Wilson
Stafford

And soon to be....
Herbert
Burrow
Mayfield
Murray

Followed by......
Lawrence
Z. Wilson


I would take Dak over Jackson. Watson is in limbo. Dak is currently around 10-13 in today's NFL with the aging and retirement of Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Brees.

I don't care about garbage-time stats. I care about what players do when it matters in big moments.

Dak needs to keep this team in games all the time, no matter if it's a shootout or a defensive struggle. That's his problem to fix.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Mahomes
Brady
Rodgers
Allen
R. Wilson
Stafford

And soon to be....
Herbert
Burrow
Mayfield
Murray

Followed by......
Lawrence
Z. Wilson


I would take Dak over Jackson. Watson is in limbo. Dak is currently around 10-13 in today's NFL with the aging and retirement of Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Brees.

I don't care about garbage-time stats. I care about what players do when it matters in big moments.

Dak needs to keep this team in games all the time, no matter if it's a shootout or a defensive struggle. That's his problem to fix.

I can agree with how you want to rate them, but how does Stafford make your list by your own standards of keeping his team in games over the years. Also J. Allen has one bad year and one good (I'll agree i think he is going to be good BTW) but is that enough to move him that high based on your Criteria?

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

well, my question was specifically on Kyler. of all the young upcoming QBs he is at the bottom 3rd IMHO. I like Allan and how he has Matured. I am curious to see Burrows and Herbert in year 2. I think Tua is a lost cause, he has to show a lot for him to be the future in Miami and what we hear even from miami players isn't flattering. Daniel Jones is pretty much what we have seen. an adequate starter to keep the seat warm for the next guy. I put Mayfield ahead of Murray. I even put Darnold ahead of Murray.....

For QBs, specifically Burrow and Herbert, I have an incumbency rule. You don’t really know what they are until they’ve done it over and over again. That still applies to Kyler, just a bit less so

EDIT: Darnold ahead of Murray? Why? Murray has played substantially better than Darnold

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

For QBs, specifically Burrow and Herbert, I have an incumbency rule. You don’t really know what they are until they’ve done it over and over again. That still applies to Kyler, just a bit less so

EDIT: Darnold ahead of Murray? Why? Murray has played substantially better than Darnold

perhaps jumping ahead on Darnold a bit....I am more interested in seeing him in a new environment....we know what Murray is, not a pocket passer. scrambler that will extend plays, but probably fizzle in the playoffs, needs very strong supporting cast..... and I like pocket passers and Darnold was possibly on the worst run team in the NFL....so we will see how he does this year....its not really ranking. but who I like more....

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

perhaps jumping ahead on Darnold a bit....I am more interested in seeing him in a new environment....we know what Murray is, not a pocket passer. scrambler that will extend plays, but probably fizzle in the playoffs, needs very strong supporting cast..... and I like pocket passers and Darnold was possibly on the worst run team in the NFL....so we will see how he does this year....its not really ranking. but who I like more....

I disagree with that assessment. He’s a passer who can scramble. Non-pocket passers don’t throw 67% completion.

maybe he uses the threat of his legs to better open the passing lanes, but that’s what makes him one of the best QBs in the NFL. To me he’s a more jittery Russell Wilson

 

[817Gill]

I disagree with that assessment. He’s a passer who can scramble. Non-pocket passers don’t throw 67% completion.

maybe he uses the threat of his legs to better open the passing lanes, but that’s what makes him one of the best QBs in the NFL. To me he’s a more jittery Russell Wilson

Bingo

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I disagree with that assessment. He’s a passer who can scramble. Non-pocket passers don’t throw 67% completion.

maybe he uses the threat of his legs to better open the passing lanes, but that’s what makes him one of the best QBs in the NFL. To me he’s a more jittery Russell Wilson

sorry, I just don't like murray's game. there are 23 QBs having 65% completion rate....so that's not necessarily the biggest indicator...and like you said, he uses his legs, and its the threat of the running, so I wonder what the stats are throwing from the pocket, vs. on the run....I will check if I can find any info....

 

[dckid]

He made some good points, overall a fair evaluation. I have Dak anywhere from 7-9 so makes sense to me.

Really justifies his highest paid QB in the league. It’s absolutely idiotic that he got paid what he did but that is the Jones boys. He will never live up to his contract. It’s either he gets to a SB or consistently in the championship or second round every year.

 

[conner01]

Immobile isn’t a reason to rate Brady low. He’s been immobile his whole career. Ability to play QB is a reason to rate him higher or lower

He’s always had this weird thing about Brady. Tom was the #15 QB last year (and won the Super bowl), and the #9 QB the year before (coming off of winning the Super Bowl)

I get saying he’s not number 1 or even top 3, but there are 14 QBs the Bucs would have preferred to have under center last year? Really?

Mobility is an asset that the goat didn’t need to be the goat
Had he been mobile they probably would have changed the rules and put him in HOF already

 

[cowboyblue22]

I can come up with 2 reasons to defend it:

1. He had a rushing season comparable to Zeke last year. 800+ yards and 11 touchdowns. That’s unbelievable for a QB. Behind Lamar, he’s the most dual threat QB in the league. Add those rushing stats to his passing stats and his stat line looks mighty fine (especially at 67% completion!). That comes to 4800 yards, 37 TDs. Right around what Brady did, as Brady doesn’t run. He put up major pro bowl numbers and he was winning in Arizona, which may be even more impressive.

2. Drew Brees. Drew Brees has more 5000 yard seasons than any QB ever. Does that mean Drew is better than any QB ever? Not really. Does it even mean he was the best QB of his generation? Is Drew greater than Brady because he threw a lot of yards? Is Drew greater than Manning? Than Rodgers? Will he even be remembered as greatly as Favre? Roethlisberger? Maybe at least as much as those two, but maybe not even.

But why is that? Because Drew made 2 NFCCGs his entire career. And in a few of those 5000 yard seasons, the Saints went 7-9. Winning means more than empty stats. That’s a loaded term here, maybe there’s a better one. Losing stats. Or maybe padded stats. Sometimes it’s not always the QB’s fault they lose the games. Sometimes losing is the reason they’re able to put up so many yards. Lots of different contexts there. And last year Dak was prolific, but for what he’s been previously he wasn’t very proficient. Tell any QB to throw more and they’re going to put up more yards. Yet Dak was on pace to throw the most picks of his career, quadruple his interception total from his rookie year. Because of the sacks he was taking due to all those drop backs, his average net yards per attempt were down from his rookie year too.

Now absolutely you could say Dak was asked to do things that weren’t a comfortable place for him. His rookie year Zeke was running wild, so Dak was more free to make better decisions with the ball. Any time you overload the workload, efficiency may dip. On top of that, the team’s failings shouldn’t be considered Dak’s failings. Maybe Dak has a better season than Kyler if he plays 16 games, but you can’t reward someone for something they didn’t end up doing.

I don’t agree with the ranking, I have Dak above Kyler at least, but you can come to conclusions as to why some may feel Kyler looked more impressive in 2020.


Long post short: winning has an impact on perception, and the Cardinals won a lot of games last year people didn’t expect them to. Conversely, Dak and the Cowboys lost games last year people didn’t expect them to. Want Dak to have a better reputation in the NFL? Ask eternally underrated Drew Brees: win more. May not be fair, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

as u stated in the nfl winning matters really thats the name of the game

 

[visionary]

Sounds about right

 

[817Gill]

Really justifies his highest paid QB in the league. It’s absolutely idiotic that he got paid what he did but that is the Jones boys. He will never live up to his contract. It’s either he gets to a SB or consistently in the championship or second round every year.

Any top 7ish QB is going to get a top 3 contract when it’s their time. It literally happens every single time. Lamar, Allen, and maybe even Baker (which will be a huge overpay) will all get a contract in the coming year and beat Dak. That would make him the 5th highest paid QB (Mahomes plus all these guys).

He’s seen as a 6-10 guy. If he plays like he did last year with an average defense for a whole season he’ll be a top 7 QB without a doubt. Really not an egregious contract man.

 

[Whirlwin]

How do you know he could? Nobody has ever kept a pace like that before, so why should I believe Dak, who is not known for being a prolific passer was going to be the one to do it?

Because I receiving corps is much better. So is the offense of line. Have some faith

 

[Whirlwin]

even I say, that may not have happened. the first 5 games we played against 3 playoff teams and defense was horrid. the offenses we played later on (including last 4 games), were putrid, so we probably wouldn't need to pass as much....so averages would have come down....defintley in the top 5 though...

Still the point was, he was on pace. Whether it happen tonight only time was going to tell.

 

[Whirlwin]

How do you know he could? Nobody has ever kept a pace like that before, so why should I believe Dak, who is not known for being a prolific passer was going to be the one to do it?

He is known for being prolific. . And so for people who just don’t want to see it for one of the reason or another

 

[DandyDon52]

this is just one guys opinion lol , it doesnt mean much at all.
it doesnt matter who ranks dak where, I will judge him myself, when the real games start.

 

[dckid]

Any top 7ish QB is going to get a top 3 contract when it’s their time. It literally happens every single time. Lamar, Allen, and maybe even Baker (which will be a huge overpay) will all get a contract in the coming year and beat Dak. That would make him the 5th highest paid QB (Mahomes plus all these guys).

He’s seen as a 6-10 guy. If he plays like he did last year with an average defense for a whole season he’ll be a top 7 QB without a doubt. Really not an egregious contract man.

Fair point but I guess time will tell. My issue all along has been the following logic and please stick with me here.
From 2016 through this season the Cowboys had the best value at the QB position over that 5 year period. This is including his franchise tag cost.
Why take that power position and then make it one of the worst contracts in the league?
What is the downside? This year we were 6-10 with Andy, and a good portion of fans kept thinking if we got a break we would be competing. I think differently and I know people come off and think I am crazy to think this way.
To me the goal after 25/26 years is to get a championship game and then a SB. The team should be focused on how can we meet that goal. The biggest problem is Jerry just does not have that as his primary goal.
Signing Dak to a 40 per year contract, I believe brings us further away from that ultimate goal. I could be wrong and at some level I guess I would like to be wrong.

Look at the Rams, they are trying their hardest to win a SB, trading draft picks left, right and center, but they have talent and I can see them making it to the final four teams. If they don't get a SB appearance and SB win I guarantee they will say it's all for nothing. They have talent, confidence, coaching. They fell for the same thing the Cowboys fell for, only two years earlier than us. They overpaid a good player, but they quickly cut their losses and moved on. Goff even after reaching a SB, was not worth the contract he got.
The Niners, made the SB two years ago and if it wasn't for Mahomes pulling a miraculous 3rd and 15 win the SB. They again fell for overpaying a QB in Jimmy G. Even after reaching a SB, they trade a bunch of draft capital and draft a young QB basically resetting the clock and will be competing for SB going forward.

Jerry Jones is very happy to be 8-8 every year for the next 25 if you gave him the choice. Winning a SB is barely on this top 10 things to do as a GM.
He wants a war daddy, want's to print Zeke Tshirts, or pay his guys, whether they are Romo, Dak, Witten, Lawrence,etc, etc.

The Eagles the same story. They overpaid Wentz and immediately regretted it. They took the largest cap hit in the history of the league to get away from that contract.

The Ravens showed us the same thing after 2012 when they overpaid Flacco. Even after he won a SB it was a bad deal to sign him.

Now having all this evidence, and there is a bunch more teams and examples of overpaying a good QB franchise money. It never ends well. Never.

It's just this team having a bad process of managing and running this team. Just look at the past 25 years. I am not negative, as a lot of posters have stated. I think this is a great 30 for 30, a Ringer podcast, etc. I am just dumbfounded that no 60 minutes, HBO real sports has not done a deep dive on the mediocrity of this team.
For the long time fans, I am in my early 40's, and I really don't see anything changing.
Dak has a celing, great person. He is not Russel, Brady, Mahomes, Rogers. He will not win those three games that will propel you to a SB. And I am not saying he needs to be.
The other argument I was making this past season was, why try to win 6 games. Imagine if we won 3 games and then the Niners offered us two first round picks to swap 4 or 5 spots. There is a lack of vision/ teambuilding that needs to be addressed.
This post probably needs to be a thread in its self...
Anyways good conversation.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Immobile isn’t a reason to rate Brady low. He’s been immobile his whole career. Ability to play QB is a reason to rate him higher or lower

He’s always had this weird thing about Brady. Tom was the #15 QB last year (and won the Super bowl), and the #9 QB the year before (coming off of winning the Super Bowl)

I get saying he’s not number 1 or even top 3, but there are 14 QBs the Bucs would have preferred to have under center last year? Really?

Tom get's a team the intangible of feeling they really contend like no other QB.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

He is known for being prolific. . And so for people who just don’t want to see it for one of the reason or another

Dak has ONE season in his career with over 4,000 yards passing. The top QBs average well over 4,000 yards every year.

Nobody has ever confused Dak with being a prolific passer.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Fair point but I guess time will tell. My issue all along has been the following logic and please stick with me here.
From 2016 through this season the Cowboys had the best value at the QB position over that 5 year period. This is including his franchise tag cost.
Why take that power position and then make it one of the worst contracts in the league?
What is the downside? This year we were 6-10 with Andy, and a good portion of fans kept thinking if we got a break we would be competing. I think differently and I know people come off and think I am crazy to think this way.
To me the goal after 25/26 years is to get a championship game and then a SB. The team should be focused on how can we meet that goal. The biggest problem is Jerry just does not have that as his primary goal.
Signing Dak to a 40 per year contract, I believe brings us further away from that ultimate goal. I could be wrong and at some level I guess I would like to be wrong.

Look at the Rams, they are trying their hardest to win a SB, trading draft picks left, right and center, but they have talent and I can see them making it to the final four teams. If they don't get a SB appearance and SB win I guarantee they will say it's all for nothing. They have talent, confidence, coaching. They fell for the same thing the Cowboys fell for, only two years earlier than us. They overpaid a good player, but they quickly cut their losses and moved on. Goff even after reaching a SB, was not worth the contract he got.
The Niners, made the SB two years ago and if it wasn't for Mahomes pulling a miraculous 3rd and 15 win the SB. They again fell for overpaying a QB in Jimmy G. Even after reaching a SB, they trade a bunch of draft capital and draft a young QB basically resetting the clock and will be competing for SB going forward.

Jerry Jones is very happy to be 8-8 every year for the next 25 if you gave him the choice. Winning a SB is barely on this top 10 things to do as a GM.
He wants a war daddy, want's to print Zeke Tshirts, or pay his guys, whether they are Romo, Dak, Witten, Lawrence,etc, etc.

The Eagles the same story. They overpaid Wentz and immediately regretted it. They took the largest cap hit in the history of the league to get away from that contract.

The Ravens showed us the same thing after 2012 when they overpaid Flacco. Even after he won a SB it was a bad deal to sign him.

Now having all this evidence, and there is a bunch more teams and examples of overpaying a good QB franchise money. It never ends well. Never.

It's just this team having a bad process of managing and running this team. Just look at the past 25 years. I am not negative, as a lot of posters have stated. I think this is a great 30 for 30, a Ringer podcast, etc. I am just dumbfounded that no 60 minutes, HBO real sports has not done a deep dive on the mediocrity of this team.
For the long time fans, I am in my early 40's, and I really don't see anything changing.
Dak has a celing, great person. He is not Russel, Brady, Mahomes, Rogers. He will not win those three games that will propel you to a SB. And I am not saying he needs to be.
The other argument I was making this past season was, why try to win 6 games. Imagine if we won 3 games and then the Niners offered us two first round picks to swap 4 or 5 spots. There is a lack of vision/ teambuilding that needs to be addressed.
This post probably needs to be a thread in its self...
Anyways good conversation.

I digress from your logic. the league over drafts and over pays for the QBs because its a QB driven league and easiest path to the superbowl. Niners paid Grapolo and they got to the superbowl...and as you said if not for a miraculous throw by mahomes, they would have won it.....KC paid Mahomes, the largest ever contract in the NFL. should they have not? was it a mistake? they just lost the superbowl. should they now move away from Mahomes? GB has paid rodgers, multiple times. should they not have? was that a mistake? would you walk away from Rodgers? NO paid Brees, he won a superbowl for them and multiple CG appearances. should they not have paid him?

you showed a couple of examples of bad signings ala Wentz and Goff. I could have told you prior to the signings that it was going to be a mistake and now we live to see it. there are a bunch of QBs coming up for new contracts as you said, should their teams walk away? Allan, Mayfield? jackson and soon in a couple of years Murray, Burrows, Herbert....because there are only 2 superbowl winners from now till then, and that's 6 young QBs..

every team makes an assessment of who/what gives them the best chance to compete. you sign those players and hope for the best.

and you mentioned Andy, like you said, we saw what happens when you go cheap. we know what he is/was. you are not winning with him.

and the notion that you pay a QB and you will never win a championship is totally absurd and has been debunked.....it starts with the QB. you pay the QB and teams then have some flexibility to restructure, push money to the future and add players they need. the facts are that no team ever builds through FA. you build through the draft and that's been out problem the past 15 years in drafting defensively. we have sucked at it. hopefully this year is a little different (fingers crossed).

and I disagree with the one thing every one points to...Brady...he is the exception rather than the rule. he made his money. been in the league 20+ years. his wife makes triple what he makes. and at this point, its not about money, but championships for him. his situation is totally different. perhaps Rodgers would do the same to get another ring. maybe Roth. all older, towards end of their careers. but I doubt if any of the young guys, getting chance at first big contract are going to give a Brady discount....its just not realistic in the NFL.