Dak summed up in a sentence and a question

[ABQCOWBOY]

And just where are those two 1st round picks coming from?
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Read the thread.

 

[Kaiser]

I did know the Cowboys had some free agents after the season but I will admit I didn't know there were that many.
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Every team has this many FAs in the offseason. Dak and Amari get signed, no question. Guys like Cobb will be also.

3T and RDE are either resigned or replaced with a similar player. Not hard to do.

Witten is replaced and they upgrade from Heath, that isn't hard to do in either the draft or free agency.

 

[shabazz]

I mean that's subjective. Overpaid to me? Yes. But if everyone is overpaid then you can't really say its overpaid. At some point you have to come to the realization that is simply market value and that's the real question. Do you want to pay market value or do you want to just draft a guy very 4 or 5 years?

I just don't think we have enough data to say what will or won't win a Super Bowl. Like right now everyone says you can't pay a quarterback and win a Super Bowl. But at some point every good quarterback is going to be overpaid and that myth will be put to rest. Especially once Watson, Mahomes, etc. get paid.

Hindsight is 20-20 but can the Eagle really be happy paying Wentz that kind of money? I understand what you are saying concerning the market so I guess its not a matter of the amount more than it a question of is that player Worth that amount. Either pay him or lose him. With Wentz they gave up 4 picks to get him at #2 so they have an investment. we gave up nothing for Dak so its not that kind of situation here. For those of us that would like to see Dakota stay here for non-elite money, I guess that's not gonna happen but if the FO feels hes worth it than that's what will happen and we can hope it works out for the best.. Doesn't seem to be any middle ground here

 

[Northern_Cowboy]

Yeah ID on't know what the hell they are talking about. I'm convinced they haven't seen him play.


So if you don' think the Eagles backed into the division then you think the Cowboys reached their potential with a 8-8 season? I'm sorry but if you are 8-7 and are leading your division you didn't go out there and win it you backed into especially when you hadn't been leading it all year. The Eagles are so bad that they can still lose on Sunday and miss out on the playoffs.....that's WITH the Cowboys losing what? 4 out of 5 games?

And btw, I'm not saying the Cowboys didn't back into either. Even if they won on Sunday they would've backed into it. They have done nothing but beat bad teams all year(well they lost to the Eagles and Jets and Bears) and lose to the good teams. That's backing in to me.

So you believe Wentz would win 11 or 12 wins with our supporting cast even though he couldn't do it last year with a Super Bowl winning supporting cast? I can't say I agree with that.

I also disagree with you about Romo. He would've failed in 2016 like he failed his whole career. Why? Because of who is head coach is. I get it. Its the uncertainty. We will never know what Romo would've done win or lose. Hell to be honest there is no evidence to even say Romo's body would have even held up if they brought back in that year. He probably would've got hurt again. Who knows how the team around him plays.

I'm of the belief that year the Cowboys were going to lose regardless. Because mind you, Dak played good enough to win in that Packers game. Hell he even had a lead. They didn't lose because of Dak. They lost because as usual they always found a way to lose in the Garrett era. Hell even the Wade and Parcells era. They find ways to lose. In that game they let Jared Cook run free which set up the field goal. In 2014 how did they lose? The "catch"? Its always something.

I think the Cowboys definately underachieved this season and i think the Eagles and Wentz with all their injuries both on Defense and offense (that directly affects him) overachieved to be at 8-7 with a chance to go 9-7 and win the division and get into the playoffs. There are not alot of teams that can lose their top 3 WR their top RB along and still post a winning record for the season. If you are trying to say the Eagles backed in because the Cowboys sucked, i get that argument but if the Eagles had their injured players on offense for the season like the Cowboys had what would their record be? My guess is a couple of more victories at the least

And yes i believe Wentz would win 11-12 games with our offense. As for last season well it is hard to come off an ACL tear especially one that happens late in the season, and you could see Wentz was unsure not doing the things last year that he did the year before, but this year he is again and it shows in his play

 

[shabazz]

Is this a fact?

I'm neither a Dak hater, nor a Dak "slobberer" or whatever their called now a days.

I was hoping you were going to ask if I thought Dak was a better Ryan Fitzpatrick, with the INTs dialed back a bit.

I was sorely disappointed.

They are calling themselves "Dak's Fluffers", but I'm not aware of that term.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Hindsight is 20-20 but can the Eagle really be happy paying Wentz that kind of money? I understand what you are saying concerning the market so I guess its not a matter of the amount more than it a question of is that player Worth that amount. Either pay him or lose him. With Wentz they gave up 4 picks to get him at #2 so they have an investment. we gave up nothing for Dak so its not that kind of situation here. For those of us that would like to see Dakota stay here for non-elite money, I guess that's not gonna happen but if the FO feels hes worth it than that's what will happen and we can hope it works out for the best.. Doesn't seem to be any middle ground here

Yeah there's no middle ground I agree there. And you're right. The Wentz move was more crucial because they invested so much in him. With Dak they've invested time but they also have their past history of developing quarterbacks in the Jerry Jones era going against them and maybe that scares him to the point he overpays.

But going by past Jerry? Jerry is going to give up on Dak when its too late. Whether he's 40 years old and or whether he's 28. Jerry gives up on guys when its too late. When they are a few years past their prime or a few years from being good. Right now there's still that mystery of what he truly is. So he may get two franchise tags and then a decision made. Wouldn't shock me.

"Jason Whitlock May be the last honest Sports Journalist this Country will ever see"

Yuck. I hope that's not your quote lol.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think the Cowboys definately underachieved this season and i think the Eagles and Wentz with all their injuries both on Defense and offense (that directly affects him) overachieved to be at 8-7 with a chance to go 9-7 and win the division and get into the playoffs. There are not alot of teams that can lose their top 3 WR their top RB along and still post a winning record for the season. If you are trying to say the Eagles backed in because the Cowboys sucked, i get that argument but if the Eagles had their injured players on offense for the season like the Cowboys had what would their record be? My guess is a couple of more victories at the least

And yes i believe Wentz would win 11-12 games with our offense. As for last season well it is hard to come off an ACL tear especially one that happens late in the season, and you could see Wentz was unsure not doing the things last year that he did the year before, but this year he is again and it shows in his play

Ok but let's also be honest about what they lost. They lost Alshon Jeffrey's, Nelson Agolor and Desean Jackson. They didn't even have Jackson last year, Agoholor sucks and Jeffrey's as usually is hurt when he's been hurt his whole career.

Their receivers suck. Fair but let's not pretend like he's missing a Pro Bowl at receiver. The guys he's missing aren't factors in Wentz's game. Wentz is a quarterback who loves throwing to the tight end and the screen pass. If Miles Sanders, Goedert and Ertz were hurt that's one thing. But those are his 3 best players EVEN when those guys are healthy.

In regards to his year last year....Wentz's problem was mental. Had nothing to do with his ACL injury last year. As you can see this year he has more fumbles than anyone. If you think Wentz can overcome this coaching staff then you must think he's the best quarterback in the league. Because I have yet to see a good quarterback overcome bad coaching. Aaron Rodgers couldn't even do it.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

Dak is average.. he can’t be elite if he doesn’t elevate players around him. If Russell Wilson had our weapons they would be sb favorites.

Dak is a little above average.. he should get 28m max because he’s young.

If Russel Wilson had our coaches he'd be no better than Dak/Romo.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You have to draw the line somewhere, 35m is his

Ok so my next question is what do you give him?

 

[Typhus]

Haha I'm not sure if Type 2 is actually a real faction of this fanbase lol. Especially if you go by the posts on this site lol. That fan doesn't exist.

It exists, and it exists even here.
You are a part of it... 2

 

[Mr_437]

IMO if your QB isn't one of top guys in the league who are consensus the best or Top 5 don't pay your team's QB like he is Wilson, ARod, Brees or Mahomes.

As many holes as the Cowboys, now would be a good time to get creative.

 

[Northern_Cowboy]

Ok but let's also be honest about what they lost. They lost Alshon Jeffrey's, Nelson Agolor and Desean Jackson. They didn't even have Jackson last year, Agoholor sucks and Jeffrey's as usually is hurt when he's been hurt his whole career.

Their receivers suck. Fair but let's not pretend like he's missing a Pro Bowl at receiver. The guys he's missing aren't factors in Wentz's game. Wentz is a quarterback who loves throwing to the tight end and the screen pass. If Miles Sanders, Goedert and Ertz were hurt that's one thing. But those are his 3 best players EVEN when those guys are healthy.

In regards to his year last year....Wentz's problem was mental. Had nothing to do with his ACL injury last year. As you can see this year he has more fumbles than anyone. If you think Wentz can overcome this coaching staff then you must think he's the best quarterback in the league. Because I have yet to see a good quarterback overcome bad coaching. Aaron Rodgers couldn't even do it.

How many teams have pro bowlers at the WR position? not many but that's not the point they were the top guys on the team and they each filled a special role. Jackson is the speed guy Jeffries the possessions guy and Agolor the slot guy. To say they are not factors in the game is silly. So last year Jeffries had 65 receptions in 13 games and Agolor had 64 rececptions in 16 games and your right Wentz problem with his knee was probably more mental last year as it is for most players coming off that kind of injury. When the chips were on the line Wentz led hs team to victory without 40% of his starters on offense our guy couldn't put up 1 lousy TD against a mediocre defense. One guy is Elite and one guy isn't. There has been alot of talk in this thread about Money some of it by guys saying the Eagles made a mistake paying Wentz the money he got, well i say the Eagles gave him that contract and money to win just the kind of game he was in last week against us and he did. I'll say it again take away Cooper Gallop and Cobb from Dak and what happens?

 

[Northern_Cowboy]

Ok so my next question is what do you give him?

Well you already know my feelings. I don't think he is the guy so i would just move on from him but that aside, maybe Cousins money and for the same 3 years and the same guarantee if i had to, that would be my max

 

[gjkoeppen]

This isn't always the case. Heck, Rogers was taken late in the first. Lots of QBs are taken late in the first or early in the 2nd and develop. To me, it's more about the environment that they are developed in, more then anything else. Seen way too many talented QBs get ruined by being drafted into the wrong situation. That's the honest truth.

Some what you said is true. I'm surprised that you didn't mention Brady who went in the 6th round. But that still doesn't explain ALL of the QB's drafted that turned out to be busts. Also if those QB's you think turned out to bust because they went to the wrong situations, my answer for that is if they were as good as you think they were they would have been able to adapt and still shined. To many people want to place blame for players failure on someone, anyone other than the player. We both mentioned Rodgers and Rodgers got to sit on the bench for 3 years learning, Prescott did his learning and developing in live fire. There are many of the Prescott haters that started their hatred after his very first game and the Cowboys lost. But then the Cowboys went on a 11 game winning streak, the longest in Cowboys history, yet those haters kept on hating. Do you know what's funny about that, Prescott was named the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year. Now this season people complain about Prescott passing yet he's thrown for more yards than any Cowboys QB ever and for most of the season lead the league in completions or 20 + yards and still leads the league in completions of 40+ yards. Also unlike 2017 when Bryant led the league in drops and was 1 drop from leading the league in 2016 too, this season as a team the Cowboys lead the league in team drops. Yet there are some that want to blame Prescott passing even though the team has dropped a lot of passes.
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[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah I disagree. I don't let 5 million stop me from having a franchise quarterback. That's insane. We gave Nolan Carrell and Cedric Thornton 5 million. So basically we are letting a Cedric Thornton stop us from signing a franchise qb? That's insane.

But I say that to say this. If 5 million is stopping us....let Dak go. This is all a big charade. If you have a franchise quarterback you don't play this game. Rams didn't with Goff and Eagirls didn't with Wentz. So what that tells me is maybe they don't think Dak is that guy or want him to prove it. So if you have those questions then yeah I wouldn't give him 30 million. Maybe a 2 year 50 million dollar deal or something along those lines. That's far too much money to have those type of concerns. Let him walk if that's how they feel.

This assumes you or, more appropriately, the incoming Coaching Staff believes he is a Franchise QB. That is not a guarantee. Not everybody in the NFL believes he is. He ain't getting an additional 5 mil. I am not even certain that any team in the NFL will offer 30. That is my opinion and it really hasn't changed. If the incoming coaching staff wants to bump it 5 mil, that's on them but I wouldn't do that. Nolan Carrell was a waste of money. Cedric Thornton was a waste of money and an additional 5 mil would be a waste of money as well, in my view. Goff and the Rams, I don't care. The Eagles I don't care about either. I would actually wonder if either of those teams, if they had a chance to do it all over again, would elect to go another way? I think the Cowboys knew that the day where a new HC might be coming and they didn't want to hamstring themselves in any negotiation. I think that probably played into it a little more but you may be right. I mean, it's not like he proved he was the guy last year and honestly, he didn't that this year either, in my view. I think he is capable of playing much, much better then he did against the Eagles but he also showed that he is capable of playing just as he did last Sunday as well so you have to weigh those things.

 

[Northern_Cowboy]

Some what you said is true. I'm surprised that you didn't mention Brady who went in the 6th round. But that still doesn't explain ALL of the QB's drafted that turned out to be busts. Also if those QB's you think turned out to bust because they went to the wrong situations, my answer for that is if they were as good as you think they were they would have been able to adapt and still shined. To many people want to place blame for players failure on someone, anyone other than the player. We both mentioned Rodgers and Rodgers got to sit on the bench for 3 years learning, Prescott did his learning and developing in live fire. There are many of the Prescott haters that started their hatred after his very first game and the Cowboys lost. But then the Cowboys went on a 11 game winning streak, the longest in Cowboys history, yet those haters kept on hating. Do you know what's funny about that, Prescott was named the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year. Now this season people complain about Prescott passing yet he's thrown for more yards than any Cowboys QB ever and for most of the season lead the league in completions or 20 + yards and still leads the league in completions of 40+ yards. Also unlike 2017 when Bryant led the league in drops and was 1 drop from leading the league in 2016 too, this season as a team the Cowboys lead the league in team drops. Yet there are some that want to blame Prescott passing even though the team has dropped a lot of passes.
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The majority of QB's drafted turn out to be busts along with every other positon, but the stats say that the guys you take in the 1st round have a better chance of success than the guys taken in the later rounds

 

[blueblood70]

Ok well let me do it for you then.

Do you see the good teams.....the ones who for the most part have one consistently for the past 10-20 years do this? You see the Steelers trade 2 1st round picks to get a Jared Goff? You see them draft a Johnny Manziel with their 1st round pick?

Getting quarterbacks isn't easy. But there is a approach you should take especially if you have the ability to coach your guys up.

Ask yourself this...has Andy Reid ever had a bad quarterback? Has he ever traded up and drafted a bad quarterback in the 1st round?
What about Pete Carroll? What about Bellicheat? What about Harbaugh in Baltimore?

Yes, its hard to find a quarterback but there's a way to do it. It takes proper coaching, scouting, culture.......look at what the good coaches do at that position and look at what the bad organization do at it and I bet you will see a consistent trend. Doesn't take that much time. Just pick 5 good organziation and pick 5 bad ones and see what they have done at quarterback.

dude you are making my point. there are 4 teams and four qbs you mentioned out of 32 teams with 3 deep at QB..you know what thos eodds are, also let me reply..

Andy Reid how many SBs appearances? Sb wins=0... So Mcnabb is better than Romo and dak, NOFNWY..about the same type of qbs IMO .he inherited Smith did not draft him and if he or any of the nfl knew what mahomes would become he would have went #1 overall not 13th or wherever he went, again a Elite generational pick, sometimes is luck..

Harbaugh they used up and then overpaid a player who was great one year on the SB run silair to afoles who caught fire, then what? Jackson was flier and they ahd to run an offense to suit his needs vs hiom being eliete , hes not an Elite QB, hes and elite Athlete playing QB..great thing Hrbaugh got the archetect who made Kap good and was abke to use that for Jackson but noone truly knew hed be this good for at least a year..so i did not see any super GM/Coach move for any ogf them that brought a QB, some luck buddy..

Pete carroll LOL dude just brought in some overpriced FA to start and took Wilson in the 3rd round but did not know hed be this good or he would have been taken first overall.. before that it was some bad QBs in Seatle..go look it up..BTW forst 2 years when Seatle was great that was an elite defense and run game that gave time for RW to bcome who he did..oh and old PC let aplay call be put in RW hands whwn it shold have been Lynch on the gal line that cost him a SB.

Same goes for old BigBen i remember a super Defense, betis and run game that simply said let the qb not give the game away and we we win.. ben became gret later but he was not the reason they won that first SB, not eve close..there were several mediocre qbs before ben on those PB teams btw, worse then dak..

so even if i gave you the argumanet which im not we can split the difference my point is theres no formula for finding elite players especially at QB and it takes some luck and timing to find those...

now if the argumanet is they had a better GM or HC sure they built a great defense on all those teams, instaled a great Run Game and dint replay on the QB from day one to shoulder the load..

we never gave romo that sufficating of defesne at the same time as a great line and run game and let the game come to them, dak really hasnt got that yet either , some of it yes but those 4 teams all had that in common..some of the best defnses the nfl ever had and a strong run game..

this year NE is doing it with great defense ansd ST because they dont have a good offense, really below avg offense including brady..

Us we had horrioble ST, inconsistent play on defense , and our offense coudnt find an identity ie coaching was sporadic..

so again yes i go Coaches more of an issue then our QB selections..

 

[shabazz]

[QUOTE

"Jason Whitlock May be the last honest Sports Journalist this Country will ever see"

Yuck. I hope that's not your quote lol.[/QUOTE]

That's Max Kellerman's quote,

 

[gjkoeppen]

The majority of QB's drafted turn out to be busts along with every other positon, but the stats say that the guys you take in the 1st round have a better chance of success than the guys taken in the later rounds

This true but there have been bust in the 1st round, as high as the 1st player taken and then there are HOLFers that went in later rounds. there are even great players that went undrafted.
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[ABQCOWBOY]

Some what you said is true. I'm surprised that you didn't mention Brady who went in the 6th round. But that still doesn't explain ALL of the QB's drafted that turned out to be busts. Also if those QB's you think turned out to bust because they went to the wrong situations, my answer for that is if they were as good as you think they were they would have been able to adapt and still shined. To many people want to place blame for players failure on someone, anyone other than the player. We both mentioned Rodgers and Rodgers got to sit on the bench for 3 years learning, Prescott did his learning and developing in live fire. There are many of the Prescott haters that started their hatred after his very first game and the Cowboys lost. But then the Cowboys went on a 11 game winning streak, the longest in Cowboys history, yet those haters kept on hating. Do you know what's funny about that, Prescott was named the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year. Now this season people complain about Prescott passing yet he's thrown for more yards than any Cowboys QB ever and for most of the season lead the league in completions or 20 + yards and still leads the league in completions of 40+ yards. Also unlike 2017 when Bryant led the league in drops and was 1 drop from leading the league in 2016 too, this season as a team the Cowboys lead the league in team drops. Yet there are some that want to blame Prescott passing even though the team has dropped a lot of passes.
.

There are even more QBs who have gone outside of round one or two that this is applicable to but I felt like the discussion was really more around late 1st round guys, as opposed to all QBs in general. Rodgers did sit and I'm a fan of developing QBs this way, especially in todays NFL, rather then just throwing them in. Prescott, in his first year, was the beneficiary of other teams not having tape on him in the NFL, of most of the rest of the NFL being more conscious of Zeke and of having a really good team around him. All of those things, along with a lucky schedule, allowed him to enjoy a good season and to win that award. However, even in that ROY year, it was pretty clear that Dak some issues in his game. He was far from a finished product and we are seeing that now. Dak did well against bad teams this year. He didn't do as well against good teams. Now, it's not all on him but the point is that if you are QB, it's all on you. I know that doesn't sound like it makes sense but it does. He's got to be able to find ways to win when it's all on the line. If he can't do that, then he can't be a top QB in this league. You can say it's a team game and it is but, you can't be the reason the team loses. Unfortunately, for Dak, he absolutely was the reason we lost last Sunday and that's a problem for him. He's gotta be able to avoid that. He can't be the guy if he doesn't step on and find a way to be "The Guy". That's just my opinion.