Dak vs. Hurts

buybuydandavis

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Belichick took a huge risk too. If Seattle scores a TD with 19 seconds left, I am willing to bet NE does not have a chance at winning that game. He would be shredded forever. But he made a gutsy call by not calling timeout. He did not want Seattle to get another chance to review things. He saw they were confused and let it play out.
Yeah, that was an interesting one.
With a minute left from the 1 yard line, a score was next to inevitable, and The Hoodie should have been worrying about leaving time for Brady.
But he makes the "mistake" of letting the clock run. Jedi Mind Trick to get the Seahawks to pass instead of run? Did he decide only after he saw they left in a 3 WR personnel package?

Just a weird coaching scenario on both sides.
Coaches just get befuddled against him.

I vaguely remember us doing some weird punt alignment against Hoodie, and they counter by leaving our wide out entirely uncovered.
Just hike it and throw him the damn ball! But we got all befuddled and ended up running out the play clock and taking a 5 yard penalty.
Jedi Mind Tricks. It's the only explanation.
 

Hawkeye0202

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He's really not close to Mahomes. We actually don't know yet, but I'm betting no. Keep in mind that when Hurts drops back to pass, 80% of the time or more it's against a full on run defense. Because that's what the Eagles are good at, and needs to be stopped. Lets see how well Hurts does when he's facing 7 or 8 guys in coverage. We saw that last year and it was pretty ugly. Once their run game isn't top notch, we'll see it again. Then we'll see how far Hurts has come.
This ^^^^^^but this kid strikes me as one with the "it" factor. What I mean is his physicality, mindset, speed and determination make him way more serious threat with legs/feet than any other QB IMO, yes including Lamar Jackson, Fields and Dak. Remember what they use to say about him, he's a running back playing QB. Well, his QB talent has now caught up with the RB's physicality and mindset.
 

DZSierra

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This ^^^^^^but this kid strikes me as one with the "it" factor. What I mean is his physicality, mindset, speed and determination make him way more serious threat with legs/feet than any other QB IMO, yes including Lamar Jackson, Fields and Dak. Remember what they use to say about him, he's a running back playing QB. Well, his QB talent has now caught up with the RB's physicality and mindset.
Honestly, I was impressed with Hurts since I saw Hurts when I saw him taken out of the Alabama game the first time and replaced. The guy (Hurts) played it out as backup and finally transferred his final year and set records at Oklahoma (not certain how true it was, but I read Saban talked him out of Maryland to Oklahoma when it wasn't in Saban's best interest).

Hurts was far from good his first year, but I think everyone can agree he's improved leaps and bounds where he was at.

Could be talent, could be the front office giving him the tools he needs.

What I'm really curious about is how Hurts approaches his next contract. Take the money and run and play it out for the money for "short term", or structure a long term deal that will set him for life and be the franchise's "face"?

I don't know, is his contract up this year? Depending on who comes in and who goes out this year, it will tell you a lot about Hurts as a QB and if it was luck with the team this year or if he has great potential. No doubt he's gotten better, but how much as his team helped?
 

Flamma

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This ^^^^^^but this kid strikes me as one with the "it" factor. What I mean is his physicality, mindset, speed and determination make him way more serious threat with legs/feet than any other QB IMO, yes including Lamar Jackson, Fields and Dak. Remember what they use to say about him, he's a running back playing QB. Well, his QB talent has now caught up with the RB's physicality and mindset.
He's better than I gave him credit for. You know how we sometimes say, stop the run, force him to beat you through the air? He can beat you in those situations. He did it all year. I'm just wondering if he can do it when it comes a time that teams don't have to sell out to stop their run.
 

Hawkeye0202

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Honestly, I was impressed with Hurts since I saw Hurts when I saw him taken out of the Alabama game the first time and replaced. The guy (Hurts) played it out as backup and finally transferred his final year and set records at Oklahoma (not certain how true it was, but I read Saban talked him out of Maryland to Oklahoma when it wasn't in Saban's best interest).

Hurts was far from good his first year, but I think everyone can agree he's improved leaps and bounds where he was at.

Could be talent, could be the front office giving him the tools he needs.

What I'm really curious about is how Hurts approaches his next contract. Take the money and run and play it out for the money for "short term", or structure a long term deal that will set him for life and be the franchise's "face"?

I don't know, is his contract up this year? Depending on who comes in and who goes out this year, it will tell you a lot about Hurts as a QB and if it was luck with the team this year or if he has great potential. No doubt he's gotten better, but how much as his team helped?
He has 1 year left on his rookie deal
 

ghst187

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By your same assumption, the same can be said for offensive players.

When # 11 started playing last year for the Cowboys, who was he compared to? He was compared to #56, who played from 1981 to 1993.

Sometimes it a matter of time, but sometimes it's just some freak play, being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Same can be said for any position, but remember this, no matter when pro NFL players played, the QB was generally a top target of the defense.

QBs aren’t generally built, used to, or capable of taking the beatings of RBs…which is why many running QBs eventually get serious injuries and then are never the same. Esp those whose effectiveness is predicated upon defenses being opened up by the threat of said QB taking off running. The more a qb runs, the more hits they take and % of likely injuries goes up. Feels silly you are arguing these facts.
Dak was one of the sturdier-built QBs in the league and got his leg broken. Now, he’s more reluctant to run which was a big part of his game….now he’s forced to stay in the pocket more and we saw that didn’t work out great for us.
 

Whirlwin

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I used to think it was ok to pass because they didn't have time left on the clock.

But on 1st down Lynch went down at the half yard line with a minute left. They had plenty of time to get 3 plays off, even with a run first.

They purposefully ran the clock down to 24 seconds before snapping the ball. They were too afraid of Brady coming back after they scored. Counted their chickens before they had hatched.

With only 24 seconds, yeah, I say pass first to make sure you will have time left for your 3 cracks at the end zone.

They cut it too close, too afraid of Brady, leaving themselves too little time to just run it and have enough time to line up again and still get two plays.

With a 2nd down run for a td, the extra point, and the kickoff, at most Brady is left with 45 seconds if you got the play off immediately. But NE was letting them run down the clock anyway, and they didn't need a full minute to run 3 plays, even starting with a run.

Could have run the clock just down to 40, minimizing the time for Brady, but still leaving you time for 3 plays, even starting with a run.
If you make a td on 2nd down, Brady gets the ball back with under 30 seconds.
If not, you still have plenty of time to run a 3rd down pass play, then run or pass on 4th down.

Bad clock management.

But I'd still argue that the play called was the biggest problem. I'll trust Russell Wilson to roll out and run for the TD, pass, or throw the ball away as a high percentage play all day long.

Instead, they went for a bang bang pass between the numbers in the most crowded field a QB ever faces. They took the judgment and evaluation out of Wilson's hands, and put everything on play design. Just a very bad call.
It’s like you watched the game yesterday
 

buybuydandavis

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It’s like you watched the game yesterday
Yeah, I went to youtube to watch the ending again.

I don't like to talk out of my ***. It was like 1 minute of game time. How hard is that?

I know it's a peculiarity to care about such things on the intertubes, but I yam what I yam.
 

DZSierra

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The more a qb runs, the more hits they take and % of likely injuries goes up. Feels silly you are arguing these facts.
Should be no problem for you to provide the stats on these facts, correct? Just try to stay away from places like reddit please.

If you do any research on the subject, you may find your facts really aren't facts. It's only an assumption we make.
 

basel90

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Dak cannot come close to Hurt. . Heck , Hurt outpplayed mahomes in the SB. The fumbles happen .but he rushed for 3 TDs and threw for 1 and 307 yards . That is something Dak cannot touch . The eagles defense failed in the 2nd half
 

ghst187

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Should be no problem for you to provide the stats on these facts, correct? Just try to stay away from places like reddit please.

If you do any research on the subject, you may find your facts really aren't facts. It's only an assumption we make.
These truths are self evident…
Let’s argue about the color of the sky…
 

DZSierra

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These truths are self evident…
Let’s argue about the color of the sky…
I only asked for a simple stat LOL

Read below...(you can easily find the article, do a little work will ya? LOL).... The reality is we assume since a QB isn't built like a running back he's going to get his bell rung harder by taking a hit running. All you need to do was look at the NFC championship game this year to understand that a QB doesn't have to be running to get injured.

NFL quarterbacks that run the most are not injured the most, according to NFL injury data compiled from the last decade (2010-2019). In fact, Run Frequency isn’t even a reliable predictor for NFL quarterback injuries.

In other words, one cannot predict from observed data that a signal-caller like 2019 MVP Lamar Jackson is more prone to injuries simply because he runs more than other NFL passers.

These observations were made after reviewing a decade’s worth of regular-season injury reports for all quarterbacks from all 32 NFL teams. To discover whether there was a correlation between Run Frequency and injuries, the percentage of games a QB missed due to injury was charted versus his Run Frequency (see charts below in subsequent sections).

This study yielded many findings, but among them were two key observations: 1) Run Frequency didn’t reliably predict QB injuries and 2) quarterbacks that run most are injured less frequently than the NFL QB average.

In addition to examining the relationship between QB Run Frequency and injuries, this study also measured the connection between Run Frequency and a quarterback’s effectiveness. QBs’ effectiveness was measured and charted in terms of Winning Percentage, Touchdown to Turnover Ratio, Yards per Start and Quarterback Rating.

The results showed that quarterbacks that ran most typically graded either at or above the league average in all the aforementioned categories.

Finally, all this data was applied specifically to Jackson to observe how he compared to the rest of the league. Jackson had superior measurements in almost all categories.

The outline of this study is as follows:

  1. Methods and Definitions
  2. QB Injury Observations
  3. QB Effectiveness Observations
  4. Lamar Jackson Observations
  5. Final Thoughts and Future Study
 

ghst187

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I only asked for a simple stat LOL

Read below...(you can easily find the article, do a little work will ya? LOL).... The reality is we assume since a QB isn't built like a running back he's going to get his bell rung harder by taking a hit running. All you need to do was look at the NFC championship game this year to understand that a QB doesn't have to be running to get injured.

NFL quarterbacks that run the most are not injured the most, according to NFL injury data compiled from the last decade (2010-2019). In fact, Run Frequency isn’t even a reliable predictor for NFL quarterback injuries.

In other words, one cannot predict from observed data that a signal-caller like 2019 MVP Lamar Jackson is more prone to injuries simply because he runs more than other NFL passers.

These observations were made after reviewing a decade’s worth of regular-season injury reports for all quarterbacks from all 32 NFL teams. To discover whether there was a correlation between Run Frequency and injuries, the percentage of games a QB missed due to injury was charted versus his Run Frequency (see charts below in subsequent sections).

This study yielded many findings, but among them were two key observations: 1) Run Frequency didn’t reliably predict QB injuries and 2) quarterbacks that run most are injured less frequently than the NFL QB average.

In addition to examining the relationship between QB Run Frequency and injuries, this study also measured the connection between Run Frequency and a quarterback’s effectiveness. QBs’ effectiveness was measured and charted in terms of Winning Percentage, Touchdown to Turnover Ratio, Yards per Start and Quarterback Rating.

The results showed that quarterbacks that ran most typically graded either at or above the league average in all the aforementioned categories.

Finally, all this data was applied specifically to Jackson to observe how he compared to the rest of the league. Jackson had superior measurements in almost all categories.

The outline of this study is as follows:


  1. Methods and Definitions
  2. QB Injury Observations
  3. QB Effectiveness Observations
  4. Lamar Jackson Observations
  5. Final Thoughts and Future Study
You need stats to believe in gravity?
Your stats are useless and red herring because the issue is paying a guy 40m and hamstringing your salary cap then having him purposely get hit 20x per game by 300+ lb DL and 250 lb LBers.
It’s entertaining that saying increasing the hits a qb takes also increases the likelihood of injury. Arguing that fact is like arguing against gravity. It’s so blatantly obvious that it’s silly to have to argue it. I’ve been here nearly 20 years and haven’t had to block anyone until the past few weeks. Not sure what’s going on or what’s wrong with people, either their brains don’t work properly or they just want to argue nonsense for the sake of arguing….but congrats you’re the second.
 

DZSierra

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You need stats to believe in gravity?
Your stats are useless and red herring because the issue is paying a guy 40m and hamstringing your salary cap then having him purposely get hit 20x per game by 300+ lb DL and 250 lb LBers.
It’s entertaining that saying increasing the hits a qb takes also increases the likelihood of injury. Arguing that fact is like arguing against gravity. It’s so blatantly obvious that it’s silly to have to argue it. I’ve been here nearly 20 years and haven’t had to block anyone until the past few weeks. Not sure what’s going on or what’s wrong with people, either their brains don’t work properly or they just want to argue nonsense for the sake of arguing….but congrats you’re the second.
I'm just asking for some kind of stats on why you believe what you do, and yet you fail to do so.

Just because I think or believe something doesn't necessarily make it true.

For every running QB that goes down you can name a "pocket passer" that goes down as well.

Thing is, back 30-40 years ago, they weren't calling "running QB's" they were called "scramblers" .

If you're too lazy to use your computer, I can't help you.

You can find numerous finding such as this one...

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...ilson-lamar-jackson/opdkjdfw91001uuwfzt4rm82s

Edit, if I'm not allow to post this link, apologies.
 
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stinkface

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I think we need to see at least one more season of Hurts to see whether he just caught lightning in a bottle this year. Also the reality is almost all of the Philly skill players are better then ours. Better wideouts overall, better TE overall. Better Running backs overall. They also have a better O line then us overall. They should have won the division this year. They are loaded right now. However, each year is different. They also got a ton of folks to pay now, and they have some age on top of that. This was their year to win it all. .
 

DandyDon1722

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This ^^^^^^but this kid strikes me as one with the "it" factor. What I mean is his physicality, mindset, speed and determination make him way more serious threat with legs/feet than any other QB IMO, yes including Lamar Jackson, Fields and Dak. Remember what they use to say about him, he's a running back playing QB. Well, his QB talent has now caught ex suited to todays QB position. up with the RB's physicality and mindset.
Excellent observation. He does have unique qualities that are perfect for today’s QB position and the way it is played.

Also, the running game sets up a passing game that is risk adverse, something we just have never figured out, whether it is in our play designs or the decisions our QB makes.
 

DZSierra

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Arguing that fact is like arguing against gravity.
You do realize that you don't argue against gravity because gravity actually has a math equation?

I understand that stats can be interpreted various ways by the people looking at the stats, but statistics actually involve math as well.

Hopefully you understand that some time ago, most people thought that earth was flat? LOL

Your opinion is no different than mine, either can be wrong. I'm just asking for some data behind your belief. Please note, I understand that loving football is very different than loving a God where faith is involved.
 

Jake

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Why they both didn't win anything.
Not really. It's been so long since Dallas even played for one that people forget you win the George Halas trophy for winning the NFCCG. Hurts has one.

e6i9gsh2xcauzg8uytxn.jpg
 

Cmac

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Let's just simplify with Eagles vs Cowboys.......then you'll find more comparisons (top to bottom) to see why we watched while the Eagles played in the SB.
 
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