Dak vs. other options

[OmerV]

I'm not going to talk about stats, because although Dak's season stats were huge, stats alone don't tell the story. For example, he was really somewhat below what his statistical ranking in yardage reflects. I want to consider championship capability - a much more difficult thing to rank than stats, but ultimately that's the goal.

As for championship level QB's, the proven guys are Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Wilson. And Brady had a down year and both he and Brees are in their 40's. Then there is Mahomes, who hasn't yet won, but has talent above possibly any other QB, and who most feel is capable of winning the Super Bowl. Obviously most Cowboy fans would take him over Dak.

That's a grand total of 5 guys that are considered championship level QB's, and it took 20 years worth of drafts to have those guys at this point in time. They don't grow on trees.

Then what? Watson? Wentz? Cousins? Garoppolo? Ryan? You could make an argument for those guys over Dak, but you could make an argument for Dak too. When it comes to it, Dak falls somewhere in that group, and reasonable people can disagree on exactly where.

Which, at the end of the day, is pretty good company in terms of the hierarchy of NFL QB's. It's not Wilson or Rodgers level, but neither is it Mayfield or Winston level, and nowhere near Dalton and Darnold level.

My conclusion is that while I agree Dak still has questions to answer, and the decision on what the Cowboys should be willing to pay is a tough one, I think fans are unreasonably thinking in terms of the team absolutely having to have a Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Wilson/Mahomes level QB, and that's not realistic. You shoot for it, but do you shoot yourself in the foot blindly hoping for it?

 

[John813]

At a minimum he needs to be tagged. Anyone who wants him to walk is not thinking straight.

That being said, the Jones gang loves him, so I think they'll lock him up long term and even blink in the process so all this talk is moot.

This QB class seems to have talent up top and some guys with potential later on too. Wouldn't mind dipping in the pond again for depth.

It's too risky abandoning a good QB to find a great QB. One thing to have the 1st overall, and have a Luck, Aikman etc type prospect waiting there, another to be hoping that the guy you take at 11th, 25th etc is that franchise stud everyone prior missed on.

Jerry is 77 and wants to win(his way). There will be no reset at QB.

 

[glimmerman]

The only thing holding Dak from signing is the length of contract. Dak wants a shorter contract so he can score twice with huge deals. JJ and SJ want a longer term to lock him up for 7 years and know where there cap is going to be.

 

[MysteryIceGuro]

Here's my post from another thread to what we should do:

I propose we do what the Chiefs do. Here’s why:
Okay. Dak IMO is another Alex Smith. Good against garbage teams. Struggles against good teams. Struggles very badly when the run is taken away or when the defense struggles slightly. Today, we saw what a real QB does when down (Patrick Mahomes). We even saw it last week with Watson against the Bills. Dak has rarely done that. Everyone says he has the 2nd most comebacks in the league but most don’t know that those comebacks occurred during his anomaly of a rookie season.

Anyways, back to my main point. 2017. Mahomes is drafted. However, Smith still starts and Mahomes sits under him for a year. Basically, the Chiefs are giving him a prove it year. He fails to step up to the plate despite having everything going for him. He’s let go. They don’t give him market price, they don’t settle for mediocrity, they don’t fear that Mahomes is a bust. They take the damn risk. We need to do the same. Dak is average. That’s IT. He doesn’t deserve market price just because Wentz and Goff got paid that amount of money (stupidly so I might add).

Also, say we do draft a quote on quote “bust”. I ask, what’s the worst that could happen? We go 4-12 and miss the playoffs? Like we did this year except we went 8-8? What’s the difference? 4 worthless wins that drive down our draft pick? Even so, many act as if we cannot trade or cut said rookie we don’t have faith in. Cardinals did the same to Rosen after he underperformed. We could do the same if our rookie underperformed. Furthermore, what if he plays like Dak (aka, at an average level)? It will actually be more helpful as A. Said rookie QB is cheaper and B. Said rookie QB is younger, meaning he’d be quicker and wouldn’t have as much tape on him.

Even further, we could draft a Mahomes, Wilson, or a more accurate Allen.

We need to take that risk. The only thing stopping us is fear of drafting a “bust” but honestly, I haven’t seen that many busts as of late besides maybe Rosen and Trubisky. Kyler has played pretty well. Allen has played pretty well. Darnold has played pretty well. Watson has played pretty well. Need I go on? Seems more likely we draft an average-great player than a bust. Again, we need to take that chance than to settle for a mediocre/average cap hit QB for 5+ years while our team is still relatively young and in it’s “prime”

Tl;dr: Tag Dak and draft a rookie. Use 2020 for Dak like the Chiefs used Smith in 2017. If he fails to step up to the plate, go with the rookie and let Dak walk or see if he's willing to take a discount once he realizes the market for him isn't high.

If we go with the rookie, honestly, tell me, what's the worst that could happen? Some will say "We will waste the careers of Zeke or Amari or Gallup!" Is Dak not doing that right now? He hasn't lead this team to a Superbowl either. So, at worst, the rookie will do the same.
Others will say "We could go 0-16 with the rookie!"
Truly, what's the difference between 0-16 and 8-8 if you miss the playoffs with 8-8? Ultimately with both records, you miss the ultimate goal (The Superbowl). Only difference is draft pick number. There is no difference. Honestly, right now, tell me, would you rather miss the playoffs at 0-16 with a higher draft pick or miss the playoffs at 8-8 with the #17 draft pick? I understand you can still draft a bust a #1, but the entire draft is literally in your hands. You can pick ANYONE. Can't do that at 17.

 

[jazzcat22]

The only thing holding Dak from signing is the length of contract. Dak wants a shorter contract so he can score twice with huge deals. JJ and SJ want a longer term to lock him up for 7 years and know where there cap is going to be.

He can always sign the longer deal, then go to Cabo and hold out after 3 or 4 years into it.

 

[glimmerman]

He can always sign the longer deal, then go to Cabo and hold out after 3 or 4 years into it.

Don’t give him any ideas.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

I'm not going to talk about stats, because although Dak's season stats were huge, stats alone don't tell the story. For example, he was really somewhat below what his statistical ranking in yardage reflects. I want to consider championship capability - a much more difficult thing to rank than stats, but ultimately that's the goal.

As for championship level QB's, the proven guys are Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Wilson. And Brady had a down year and both he and Brees are in their 40's. Then there is Mahomes, who hasn't yet won, but has talent above possibly any other QB, and who most feel is capable of winning the Super Bowl. Obviously most Cowboy fans would take him over Dak.

That's a grand total of 5 guys that are considered championship level QB's, and it took 20 years worth of drafts to have those guys at this point in time. They don't grow on trees.

Then what? Watson? Wentz? Cousins? Garoppolo? Ryan? You could make an argument for those guys over Dak, but you could make an argument for Dak too. When it comes to it, Dak falls somewhere in that group, and reasonable people can disagree on exactly where.

Which, at the end of the day, is pretty good company in terms of the hierarchy of NFL QB's. It's not Wilson or Rodgers level, but neither is it Mayfield or Winston level, and nowhere near Dalton and Darnold level.

My conclusion is that while I agree Dak still has questions to answer, and the decision on what the Cowboys should be willing to pay is a tough one, I think fans are unreasonably thinking in terms of the team absolutely having to have a Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Wilson/Mahomes level QB, and that's not realistic. You shoot for it, but do you shoot yourself in the foot blindly hoping for it?

This is a balanced, reasonable way to view it. It is very difficult to find a great QB.

The problem is- what if Dak is good, but not good enough to win a championship?

 

[garyo1954]

Tag him. Bring in a QB or two or three, 7, 11......make Dak prove he's the guy. At least make him improve.

Nobody wants to rock that boat. They're fine with bringing in an unproven coach but not drafting a QB? Are you kidding me?

 

[Hennessy_King]

Tag him. Bring in a QB or two or three, 7, 11......make Dak prove he's the guy. At least make him improve.

Nobody wants to rock that boat. They're fine with bringing in an unproven coach but not drafting a QB? Are you kidding me?

Omg don't even become a pop warner coach lol

 

[reddyuta]

Tagging him is not that simple,Dak may not want to play if he is tagged especially when they were so close to a deal.

 

[OmerV]

Here's my post from another thread to what we should do:



Tl;dr: Tag Dak and draft a rookie. Use 2020 for Dak like the Chiefs used Smith in 2017. If he fails to step up to the plate, go with the rookie and let Dak walk or see if he's willing to take a discount once he realizes the market for him isn't high.

If we go with the rookie, honestly, tell me, what's the worst that could happen? Some will say "We will waste the careers of Zeke or Amari or Gallup!" Is Dak not doing that right now? He hasn't lead this team to a Superbowl either. So, at worst, the rookie will do the same.
Others will say "We could go 0-16 with the rookie!"
Truly, what's the difference between 0-16 and 8-8 if you miss the playoffs with 8-8? Ultimately with both records, you miss the ultimate goal (The Superbowl). Only difference is draft pick number. There is no difference. Honestly, right now, tell me, would you rather miss the playoffs at 0-16 with a higher draft pick or miss the playoffs at 8-8 with the #17 draft pick? I understand you can still draft a bust a #1, but the entire draft is literally in your hands. You can pick ANYONE. Can't do that at 17.

The notion of moving on from Dak and going with rookie going into his second season assumes the rookie would be worth going with. That's miles from being assured, which you even alluded to by saying the #17 draft pick is uncertain.

As for whether TODAY I would want to have going 0-16 and have the #1 pick versus being 8-8 and having the #17 pick ..... first, that isn't even a choice to make, so why make it, and second, 0-16 would mean the team is much further away from competing than an if it had an 8-8 record, so even having the #1 pick wouldn't necessarily mean the team would be better anytime soon.

 

[Jake]

This is a balanced, reasonable way to view it. It is very difficult to find a great QB.

The problem is- what if Dak is good, but not good enough to win a championship?

He may not be, but until this team gets serious about defense and special teams they aren't winning a championship with anyone.

The salary cap and crazy QB salaries make it difficult to commit to anything less than a QB who looks like a future hall of famer. You end up overpaying or rolling the dice on a new QB every few years.

 

[OmerV]

This is a balanced, reasonable way to view it. It is very difficult to find a great QB.

The problem is- what if Dak is good, but not good enough to win a championship?

That's the tough question. Well, I say that - I think he clearly can win a championship because lesser QBs have. But for him to win may require a better supporting staff than another QB might need. It also may require less than another QB might need. But, admittedly it seems unlikely he will ever be the Brady/Rodgers type that can overcome as many shortcomings as they can. Ultimately though, that "what if" is always going to exist until a team does win under the QB it has, and all a team can do is make a choice on whether they feel they can win with a particular QB.

Of course, there are other sides to the "what if" game as well. What if Dak does have a chance to win given the right supporting staff, but we make a change and end up with a QB that gives no chance?

It's a lot to weigh, but that's the nature of the beast.

 

[DIAF]

There aren't any good options. Even if you dislike Dak and don't think he's a top 10, 15, or 20 QB - here are your options.

Teddy Bridgewater (going to sign a big deal somewhere to start)
Marcus Mariota
Jameis Winston
Ryan Tannehill (likely getting extended)
Brady (washed)
Rivers (washed)
Brees (likely going to sign another 1 year deal in NO)
Case Keenum (lol)

or whoever you draft and probably needs 2 years to develop.


That's it. Those are your choices. Asides from Teddy, Brees, and Tannehill who are all very likely to not be available to the Cowboys, its a bunch of washouts and old guys that need to retire.

No thank you. Give me Dak.

 

[erod]

I would figure out some way to get Cincinnati's pick. Pay what's necessary.

Joe Burrow please.

Tag Dak in the meantime.

 

[erod]

We could very well see Ryan Tannehill and Jimmy Garrapolo in the Super Bowl.

Why pay Dak $175 million?

 

[garyo1954]

Omg don't even become a pop warner coach lol

Don't even have a clue what you are trying to say. If you're going to cry cause Dak has to earn something join the Dak crybaby circle....

 

[Hennessy_King]

Don't even have a clue what you are trying to say. If you're going to cry cause Dak has to earn something join the Dak crybaby circle....

"earn" something. Everything that kid has done in life has been "earned". You would have cried in a corner going through what he's been through in life. Played 4 years for 2.3 million. Is a top 10 QB now you want him to give the cowboys a deal. LOL. just for comparison wentz and goff contracts were 18 million in comparison. He's already made 16 million less than them lol. while playing better

 

[DasTex]

I think you only need to lock up a QB with that type of money if you know he's someone that can carry you by himself - I'm not sure if Dak can do that. So with that in mind

Tag and trade Dak - best deal you can get. It won't be 2 1st - might not even be 1 1st. This only happens though if you know Brady would come on a 1 year deal.
Brady to a 1 year deal - would take less than the tag would cost.
Use the money on the rest of the team. Lock up Jones and Cooper.
Draft a QB - keep doing this every 4-5 years unless he is that Franchise QB who can carry a team. Use the cap savings to surround that QB with talent.

Worst case - Brady is done, you have a top pick to grab a QB in the draft in 21. The window on winning with a QB on a rookie deal is up - no reason to be worried about wasting a year of having a cost control QB.

If you can't get Brady here next year - then tag Dak is probably the best option - but still draft a QB. Dak on a long term deal is gonna be hard to swallow. Talent will start going down around him due to his cap cost. That is not an ideal situation.

College QB's can succeed early now due to how the NFL and College have moved closer to each other.

 

[Creeper]

Anyone who thinks the Cowboys were 8-8 this year because of Dak is just wrong. I will admit, Dak had a few games that cost the Cowboys. He is probably the single biggest reason they lost to the Eagles in December. But Dak is not the biggest problem with this team. I love these fans who talk about signing Brady to a 1 year deal. Did you watch him play in 2019? Brady is old and its starting to show. Why signed a guy who is more than likely over the hill, ruining your good young QB in the process? Then when Brady can't get this team to the SB these same people will blame the Cowboys for letting Dak go. And what do you do after 2020 when Brady retires? Chasing these 1 year miracles is what got Jerry into a 25 year funk. This team is not one QB away from a Superbowl.

During the course of 2019 there was not a single area of the Cowboys that did not falter in some way. Special teams were a disappointment. The pass rush disappeared at times. The LBs looked like the Keystone Cops. The secondary created no turnovers. The offensive line could not run block. The receivers dropped passes. The RB looked slow and indecisive. They all showed flashes in some games and all put it together in a couple of games. Putting it all on Dak is just dumb.