Dak vs. Romo - Deep passing

[HungryLion]

Does anyone really believe Romo was bottom 20 in throwing downfield?

Come on man.

I'm keeping it real you're not even keeping it realistic.

I’m not saying that at all. The OP is a simple comparison being made, to see if “dink and dunk”
Is an accurate description of Dak or not. The information you’re posting doesn’t really prove either.

You then brought up yards per attempt. So I countered with Dak’s rookie season yards per attempt. I am keeping things realistic. There isn’t anything about my posts that are unrealistic.

I never criticized Romo or questioned his ability to throw deep. You just took it that way.

I don’t think Dak is a better QB than Romo was at this point in his career. At least not as a pure passer.

 

[Aviano90]

Does anyone really believe Romo was bottom 20 in throwing downfield?

Come on man.

I'm keeping it real you're not even keeping it realistic.

How much is that attributed to throwing deep passes vs. say throwing 10 yards passes instead of 6 yard passes?
Give us some deep numbers.

 

[AdamJT13]

Dak's intended air yards per attempt put him in the bottom 20 range EACH of the last two years.

"Bottom 20 range" ... nice choice of words for a 32-team league.

 

[Captain-Crash]

Dak's the best ever. They will pass down the tales of the legend for years. Your great great grandchildren will hear the tales of Dak and the Legend Rico. They might even make a cartoon of them.They will have a slogan like "remember the Alamo"....."remember the Daka-mo"

 

[zerofill]

One thing like I said... if you base everything on stats, then Tony was the greatest QB Dallas ever had. Is everyone sure they only want to use stats for arguments? Because if we do that, then Dak better play a long time.

 

[Cowpolk]

Romo is better than Dak in every category .

 

[Captain-Crash]

Dak has the best glitch. Dak has the best glitch in the NFL

 

[Cowpolk]

Dak has the best glitch

Dak inherited the glitch

 

[Captain-Crash]

Dak invented the glitch. he perfected it in high school, college and in the pros.

 

[zerofill]

Dak invented the glitch. he perfected it in high school, college and in the pros.

Definitely has a good chance at being an all pro hopscotch player... with some of that hop skip stuff when throwing.

 

[Captain-Crash]

he beats every QB past and present in the "cup to trash can throw"... even when he misses he picks it up...

 

[AdamJT13]

I just showed you a breakdown of the fact that he first doesn't take many shots down field

Yes, we know he doesn't take that many shots down the field. Our offense hasn't done that in quite a while, and our receivers have been noted in recent years for their lack of deep speed.

and also hits on a lower percentage of these throws than desirable.

You are forgetting that your "breakdown" conveniently left out passes thrown 31-40 yards downfield, where Dak completed 40 percent and Romo completed 22.2 percent. Combine those passes with the handful of 41-yards-plus attempts for each quarterback, and Dak is at 37.5 percent and Romo is at 28 percent. (Just for comparison, Russell Wilson was at 29.7 percent last season, Tom Brady at 26.7 percent, Philip Rivers at 25 percent, Ben Roethlisberger at 25 percent, Matt Ryan at 20 percent and Carson Wentz at 18.8 percent).

So what was that you were saying about how Dak's 33.3 percent completion rate on passes thrown at least 41 yards downfield (and 37.5 percent on passes at least 31 yards downfield) is "less than desirable"?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I understand your argument, but the answer is not what you think. ("Something amongst the remainder would have to be far below average.") His passer rating was SLIGHTLY below average on passes shorter than 20 yards. When all of the splits are combined, it comes out to about average. Being 20 points higher on less than 9 percent of your total passes doesn't raise your overall rating that much.

this was the first time you actually argued it. If you had understood prior you sure liked to argue something else anyway.

Longer passes lead to more yards and tend to more scores giving that 10% in quantity a much greater qualitative weight.

You can crow about how great these outlets think he is a great deep passer. Meanwhile they put him in clear mediocre range for the overall.

 

[zerofill]

Blah just for laughs lets look at the last time they both played Denver in regular a regular season game when they both lost... Since we only pull out stats that are useful for arguments lol.

Dak:

Dak threw 50 times
Dak averaged 4.8 yards
Dak 238 Yards

Romo:

Romo threw 36 times
Romo averaged 14.1 Yards
Romo: 506 Yards

The team Tony faced was a far superior Denver team as well.

But those stats are still meaningless in the grand scheme of things, just like the rest of the stats throughout this thread.

Although Dak did do something I didn't really know was possible... that was throw for less then 200 yards in 50% of the games last season.
I know... I know... receivers weren't getting separation...

Tony threw for under 200 yards 2 of his games his last full season to though... One of them was 199...

I don't know if Tony ever threw for only 102 yards in his career in a full game though... Like Dak against Washington.

Stats mean jack $#^$ when you actually watched the games... You can spin stats into any narrative you want. But the fact is... there are too many variables related to those stats.

The only way you can use stats to compare players, and be 100% accurate, is if every situation was the same.

 

[AdamJT13]

this was the first time you actually argued it. If you had understood prior you sure liked to argue something else anyway.

Longer passes lead to more yards and tend to more scores giving that 10% in quantity a much greater qualitative weight.

Longer passes also lead to a lower completion percentage and more interceptions (and a lower average passer rating than other depths). And 10 percent is still only 10 percent.

You can crow about how great these outlets think he is a great deep passer. Meanwhile they put him in clear mediocre range for the overall.

PFF is the only one of those outlets that put him in the "mediocre" range overall. The one that focuses on deep passes put him second overall, and the other one put him at fifth overall.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Longer passes also lead to a lower completion percentage and more interceptions (and a lower average passer rating than other depths). And 10 percent is still only 10 percent.



PFF is the only one of those outlets that put him in the "mediocre" range overall. The one that focuses on deep passes put him second overall, and the other one put him at fifth overall.

FO had him at 17th in both DYOA and DPOA last season.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

And it is interesting that you bash PFF's grading when you linked us the method they used for grading QBs accuracy yesterday. And you trust their subjective calls on what is a drop and the like but you don't trust their grades.

 

[Aviano90]

Blah just for laughs lets look at the last time they both played Denver in regular a regular season game when they both lost... Since we only pull out stats that are useful for arguments lol.

Dak:

Dak threw 50 times
Dak averaged 4.8 yards
Dak 238 Yards

Romo:

Romo threw 36 times
Romo averaged 14.1 Yards
Romo: 506 Yards

The team Tony faced was a far superior Denver team as well.

But those stats are still meaningless in the grand scheme of things, just like the rest of the stats throughout this thread.

Although Dak did do something I didn't really know was possible... that was throw for less then 200 yards in 50% of the games last season.
I know... I know... receivers weren't getting separation...

Tony threw for under 200 yards 2 of his games his last full season to though... One of them was 199...

I don't know if Tony ever threw for only 102 yards in his career in a full game though... Like Dak against Washington.

Stats mean jack $#^$ when you actually watched the games... You can spin stats into any narrative you want. But the fact is... there are too many variables related to those stats.

The only way you can use stats to compare players, and be 100% accurate, is if every situation was the same.

The stats I provided are really basic math based upon simple counts and percentages to address a claim that has been continuously repeated by our fanbase the last 2 years....Dak does not throw deep and only dinks and dunks.

I gave both Dak and Romo’s % of total passes thrown downfield according the splits on ESPN. It is based on simple counts and averages...nothing complex. So, Dak either throws downfield or he doesn’t, like has been claimed over and over and over and over.

In Is like if I state New England and Dallas have 5 Super Bowls and someone needs to state # of SBs is misleading and NE is lucky because they got the tuck rule and played in a weak division in the parity era and they couldn’t have beaten the Cowboys of the 70’s and 90’s. Yeah, but they still have 5 and that isn’t misleading LOL

I find it rather amusIng the numbers seems to rub people the wrong way and they seem to need to be discredited in some way. It is probably because Romo was mentioned and people feel like it is a slight on Romo that Dak throws downfield at similar %’s as he did. Because the people doing the discrediting seem to have one goal in mind while doing it —-try to make the argument Romo is better than Dak.

 

[Galian Beast]

Yes, we know he doesn't take that many shots down the field. Our offense hasn't done that in quite a while, and our receivers have been noted in recent years for their lack of deep speed.




You are forgetting that your "breakdown" conveniently left out passes thrown 31-40 yards downfield, where Dak completed 40 percent and Romo completed 22.2 percent. Combine those passes with the handful of 41-yards-plus attempts for each quarterback, and Dak is at 37.5 percent and Romo is at 28 percent. (Just for comparison, Russell Wilson was at 29.7 percent last season, Tom Brady at 26.7 percent, Philip Rivers at 25 percent, Ben Roethlisberger at 25 percent, Matt Ryan at 20 percent and Carson Wentz at 18.8 percent).

So what was that you were saying about how Dak's 33.3 percent completion rate on passes thrown at least 41 yards downfield (and 37.5 percent on passes at least 31 yards downfield) is "less than desirable"?

Oops, you're right. I forgot the 4 completions he had on 10 attempts... for a total of 178 yards

Compared to Romo's 2007
7/14 for 289 yards.

His 2014 numbers aren't nearly as good, you're right about that though.

 

[Doomsday101]

Romo is better than Dak in every category .

Passing wise yes Romo a vet QB of 12 years is better than a 2nd year player.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

"Bottom 20 range" ... nice choice of words for a 32-team league.

I didn't have the numbers handy at the time. Though I had remembered generally where he was.

For accuracy:

Dak finished 19th last year and 22nd his rookie season.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2016/all#yards