Dak vs Zone

[Gambit]

Dallas has 2 players that are deserving of a big contract. Zach Martin Micah

Interesting, please tell us if the following players have earned a 2nd contract, yanno one that is "big"

Ceedee
Tyler Smith
Daron Bland
Ferguson
Oza
Diggs (since he just got his)

 

[Pola_pe_a]

Man vs Zone Coverage

MAN COVERAGE THROW RATE	COMPLETION PERCENTAGE VS MAN	COMPLETION PERCENTAGE VS ZONE	PASSER RATING VS MAN	PASSER RATING VS ZONE	ACCURACY RATING VS MAN	ACCURACY RATING VS ZONE
52.9% (47.1% vs zone)	66.7%	70.5%	93.0	109.5	7.2	7.4
#9	#2	#14	#15	#3	#6	#11

 

[1time4urMind]

Im simply saying that by short memory and eye test...Dak seems to have thrown a majority of INTs at short TE attempts. Or his dumbest INTs have been to TE's within like 10 yards that were a dumb throw. I could be wrong. Seems like there have been a few of those.

Im a Dak Supporter not a hater.

Short memory and eye test? Smh

You "could be wrong"? This is your response? After, having the facts broken broken down for you?

You have typed a whole lot of words on this thread to say very little, man. What is it you really want to say? Why can't you qualify your opinions? Do you have anything concrete to say? Come on, get outta here.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Provide proof. All Im asking if for visual proof.

Khalid and a number of his supporters have claimed Dak reads Zone bad. Show me proof Dak is bad vs every other QB in the league against zone.

Its not that difficult. Lets get to the bottom of this.

Dak may well be unreliable in a Playoff setting...but thats on coaches relying on Dak, imo.

Lets get to the bottom of it.

Not sure what you are REALLY getting at here. Looks like a supreme game of trolling. "you are really gonna show them what's what!". Is that it? "HAH...*I* exposed you, ya frauds!"

I see your tone here...when you refuse to give dak his due criticism in lack of playoff success. "Oh but THAT...that's the coaches".

You don;t seem to be disagreeing Dak *could* be bad....you need to pull in any other QB that could be bad too. "look SEE...they are bad too why are you complaining!".

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Short memory and eye test? Smh

You "could be wrong"? This is your response? After, having the facts broken broken down for you?

You have typed a whole lot of words on this thread to say very little, man. What is it you really want to say? Why can't you qualify your opinions? Do you have anything concrete to say? Come on, get outta here.

Ah...you beat me to it I see. Kid is playing games.

 

[RonnieT24]

Im simply saying that by short memory and eye test...Dak seems to have thrown a majority of INTs at short TE attempts. Or his dumbest INTs have been to TE's within like 10 yards that were a dumb throw. I could be wrong. Seems like there have been a few of those.

Im a Dak Supporter not a hater.

You ARE wrong. 4 of his 6 INTs this season have been throws to wide receivers. The two intended for tight ends account for one third of his INTs. That means TWO passes out of his 300 attempts ( 0.67%) have been interceptions intended for tight ends. Your eyes and your memory are both failing you. Please don't allow these brain dead narratives to influence how you watch the game. Dak is ballin.. He's torching defenses every which way. If not for that 4th quarter against the 49ers he'd be running away with pretty much every statistical category you can think of.

What we must all come to terms with is that the 49er loss caused Dak and the coaching staff to have a conversation about how he was playing, how they were calling plays and what they needed to do about it. What we are seeing now is the outcome of that conversation. Dak has absolutely elevated his game and a lot of that has been based on two things: 1) His willingness to move around in the pocket and take off when it's there and 2) His willingness to challenge defenses down the field. I would contend that #2 is a direct result of #1. Why? Because Dak getting out on the edges and threatening the defense keeps linebackers out of the deep middle and keeps safeties from staying over the top. It also has the added benefit of creating a better line of sight for the downfield throws. Dak is 6'2" not 6'5" so he can't always sit in the pocket and see over the behemoths in front of him.

 

[Aven8]

Dak struggles with SF’s zone because of those two LB’s, Greenlaw and Warner. They own the middle of the field against us

 

[RonnieT24]

Spot on. It's more about confidence than anything else. It wasnt necessarily SF playing zone that beat us in the two play-off games is was that Dak couldnt rely on the gameplan (run setting up the pass - Game1 - penalties, Game2-TP going down),

Indeed, this could be just as much on coaching, as it is Dak, especially when this season we start incorporating a TCO (maybe in response to the 9ers Defense) and SF evolve and play press-man.

The question is whether Dak can make, or more accurately is confident enough to attempt, those tight window calls especially against the 9ers (and especially as their LB/Safety is elite and takes away the middle of the field.

Yes I've already chronicled, Dak's willingness to move out of the pocket stresses the defense and keeps the linebackers out of that intermediate to deep middle passing zone. If he converts two or three first downs early on they now have to honor him as a football player and that leaves middle more open and makes the safeties have to take care not to bail either. If the Cowboys meet the 49ers again in the playoffs I think you will see a very different game. Because you will see a very different Dak. With the shackles off about running whether it was his own fear or the coaching staff imploring him not to do it, Dak has returned to being Dak the football player and the results speak for themselves. If the offensive line just gives him a LITTLE help in Philly this is a 4 game win streak and this team is sitting atop the NFC.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Is my very casual stance and eye correct that he throws a majority of dumb interceptions into zone? Seems like it...but I cant provide evidence...not tech savy. Seems like Dak can be baited into INT's based on zones or showing man and shifting to zone and sitting on a TE pass.

I could be wrong. I just think the forum needs to analyze this in more depth as as opposed to just words.

Im a Dak Supporter not hater...but I do see he relies on TE too much...maybe at a flaw when against a show-man zone

when it comes to eye test and seems like it, then our biases have a strong influence on our conclusions. seems like you are there. not saying you are wrong. but facts speak much louder than perceptions.

 

[blueblood70]

Here it is yall. The Dak vs other QBs that beat zone thread.

Can anyone with tech skills, All-22 and a decent understanding of x and o's show how Dak is lacking vs other QB's around the league vs zone when using play calls that dont use motion and dont use cross routes.

Motion and cross routes have repeatedly been screamed for to beat zone on here.

Can anyone provide visual evidence through youtube or All-22 that shows other QBs repeatedly beating zone defenses that Dak is failing at? Can you provide enough visual evidence that suggests Dak had enough time vs these other QB's whom didnt have motion or cross routes to beat zone. Can you provide evidence that some other QB, without motion and zone, is making the right read, audible, throw, play to beat zone on a regular basis?

Which QB's and what are they doing that beats zone so efficiently? Play call design is not on Dak because he is not designing the routes. Show me QB's that dont use motion or cross routes routinely that are beating zone with their good reads and feel for game plus good throw.

Is it time in pocket? Is it ability to scan field? Is it ability to go through progressions? Just flat out play making with arm? What is it? Can anyone provide video evidence of Dak failing consistently vs other QBs in similar play call position?

Is there anything? Bueller? Bueller?

State your case.

Dak threw an INT shortly after Giants went into zone Sunday. That supports Anti-Dak crowd. Im suggesting to show me more.

I am of the belief, and I dont watch film, Dak relies on TE too much which could be on Dak. Dak looks for TE to beat zone and teams sit on top of it or bait him into it. A lot of his INT seem to be to the TE in zone. Its on Dak for sure...but is it play calling uncreativity or Dak? Dak ultimately throws the ball...but is it play calling or something else. What is it like compared to the rest of the league in similar play calling situation as Dak? Whats it like for other QBs that have to throw into zone that dont rely on motion or cross routes and dump to TE? How are they better?

why are we always trying to find a flaw in our quarterbacks?? can we just leave him alone already??

you are talking about scheming?? most teams scheme their players open and to help their quarterbacks. our OCs are late to the party, the go beat your man offense is gone., thank the good lord for that.

trying to win on shear talent has been a major issue around here and its about time we start scheming to help win against zone or man IDC what it is most teams are successful with an OC that designs plays to beat specific teams defenses,period..i hope that answers your question because there is no other answer you know why because no one here knows other teams scheme and how they are beating zone without the scheme/gameplans. lol jeezz!!..

lastly if you think Patrick Mahomes and andy reid aren't scheming you are blind, they've actually not been as impressive as they are losing talent, the more scheming they've had to do. literally ran that type of offense last year with RBBC and WRBC.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Dak struggles with SF’s zone because of those two LB’s, Greenlaw and Warner. They own the middle of the field against us

you are right. and its not only us. SF is 2nd best defense in the league. they have a front 4 that can generate pressure without committing additional players, they play cover 2 with their safeties and drop 7 into coverage regularly. their intent is to take away the deep game and force throws underneath. they have those two LBs that cover a lot of ground and man the middle. if not for their front 4 being able to generate consistent pressure, then that defense wouldn't work, thus why they invest so much in the DL.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It's just the facts. Don't have to tow. Just state

what facts? if there are facts, then there are factual evidence to prove it. otherwise its perception, being peddled as facts

 

[blueblood70]

Dak struggles with SF’s zone because of those two LB’s, Greenlaw and Warner. They own the middle of the field against us

that might be true, but you left out that our offensive line has been not so good against them, so the DL ie that Front 7 owns us minus a run game too boot, and it effects dak as it does any QB without help

as it would most quarterbacks...FACTS. it's been the same thing in just about every 40 niner game include the 2018 rams; OL shaky, no run game, defense inconsistent =losses ..qb being blamed is ironic and ridiculous IMHO

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

what facts? if there are facts, then there are factual evidence to prove it. otherwise its perception, being peddled as facts

Nobody...and I mean NOBODY...is immune to this.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Do you believe Dak will win a ring this year with Dallas?

Nobody who is a realist will answer that emphatically and quickly yes. And that's the problem. Not about hate or love. It's just simple math. It has been proven numerous times he is not the answer. Can't even get to a NFC title game.

can you gauarantee anybody in the league to win a championship? you can't. you have certain odds and chances. those with Elite QB have higher odds. it covers a lot of warts. given there are about 2 of them in the league currently, then there is everybody else..... so is there a chance? yes. is it as high as KC? no. one would be foolish to say. as for the rest, it takes the team and how good is the team. offense. defense. coaching.

 

[RonnieT24]

Dak struggles with SF’s zone because of those two LB’s, Greenlaw and Warner. They own the middle of the field against us

that might be true, but you left out that our offensive line has been not so good against them, so the DL ie that Front 7 owns us minus a run game too boot, and it effects dak as it does any QB without help

as it would most quarterbacks...FACTS. it's been the same thing in just about every 40 niner game include the 2018 rams; OL shaky, no run game, defense inconsistent =losses ..qb being blamed is ironic and ridiculous IMHO

you are right. and its not only us. SF is 2nd best defense in the league. they have a front 4 that can generate pressure without committing additional players, they play cover 2 with their safeties and drop 7 into coverage regularly. their intent is to take away the deep game and force throws underneath. they have those two LBs that cover a lot of ground and man the middle. if not for their front 4 being able to generate consistent pressure, then that defense wouldn't work, thus why they invest so much in the DL.

You all three make valid points.. I just think that this current version of Dak can beat the SF defense. IF the offensive line can continue to gel. Remember that any potential rematch is 10 weeks away. That gives Steele another two and half months to strengthen that knee. It gives the Smith brothers two and a half more months working side by side. It gives Zack and Biadasz two and a half more months to heal up. Not saying the Cowboys beat the 49ers next time.. but how many here saw them boat racing the Bucs last year in the playoffs with the image of that horrid week one performance fresh in our minds? 3-19 to 31-14? Which should have been 35 if Maher makes a damn kick. That game should teach us that it CAN and does happen. A team can kick your tail the first time around but you can figure things out the next time. And I really think Dak and this offense have figured a LOT of things out these last four weeks.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Spot on. It's more about confidence than anything else. It wasnt necessarily SF playing zone that beat us in the two play-off games is was that Dak couldnt rely on the gameplan (run setting up the pass - Game1 - penalties, Game2-TP going down),

Indeed, this could be just as much on coaching, as it is Dak, especially when this season we start incorporating a TCO (maybe in response to the 9ers Defense) and SF evolve and play press-man.

The question is whether Dak can make, or more accurately is confident enough to attempt, those tight window calls especially against the 9ers (and especially as their LB/Safety is elite and takes away the middle of the field.

I think it takes a team to win if you don't have an Elite QB to cover your warts (KC). so how well is the team put together and how do they match up. SF is built around running game and their Defense and on the defensive side they are built around the DL. you can see evidence of it with the amount of investment they are making in those two areas. and to your point, Coaching matters. game day management matters. I think they are better than us in that dept.

and thus we come to Dak and our reliance on him to pull it out. where our running game has failed. and our defense has failed. and our OL has failed. I think we need to address those areas if we expect Dak to have any success. because Dak is not Mahomes (no offense to Mahomes )

they are just not a good match up for us. they are physical and we are finesse. we are built for speed and they negate that. they can run the ball. we have trouble stopping the run. their front 4 easily creates pressure thus allowing them to play the defense they want to, with dropping 7 into coverage and take away big plays, which is a big piece of our offense. until we can handle their physicality. until we get them to have to committ more players to generate pass rush. until we can have a respectable run game, we are going to struggle. even if we have Mahomes back there.

 

[VaqueroTD]

Man vs Zone Coverage

MAN COVERAGE THROW RATE	COMPLETION PERCENTAGE VS MAN	COMPLETION PERCENTAGE VS ZONE	PASSER RATING VS MAN	PASSER RATING VS ZONE	ACCURACY RATING VS MAN	ACCURACY RATING VS ZONE
52.9% (47.1% vs zone)	66.7%	70.5%	93.0	109.5	7.2	7.4
#9	#2	#14	#15	#3	#6	#11

Was that from PFF Premium? Love stats like that.

 

[Proof]

Here it is yall. The Dak vs other QBs that beat zone thread.

Can anyone with tech skills, All-22 and a decent understanding of x and o's show how Dak is lacking vs other QB's around the league vs zone when using play calls that dont use motion and dont use cross routes.

Motion and cross routes have repeatedly been screamed for to beat zone on here.

Can anyone provide visual evidence through youtube or All-22 that shows other QBs repeatedly beating zone defenses that Dak is failing at? Can you provide enough visual evidence that suggests Dak had enough time vs these other QB's whom didnt have motion or cross routes to beat zone. Can you provide evidence that some other QB, without motion and zone, is making the right read, audible, throw, play to beat zone on a regular basis?

Which QB's and what are they doing that beats zone so efficiently? Play call design is not on Dak because he is not designing the routes. Show me QB's that dont use motion or cross routes routinely that are beating zone with their good reads and feel for game plus good throw.

Is it time in pocket? Is it ability to scan field? Is it ability to go through progressions? Just flat out play making with arm? What is it? Can anyone provide video evidence of Dak failing consistently vs other QBs in similar play call position?

Is there anything? Bueller? Bueller?

State your case.

Dak threw an INT shortly after Giants went into zone Sunday. That supports Anti-Dak crowd. Im suggesting to show me more.

I am of the belief, and I dont watch film, Dak relies on TE too much which could be on Dak. Dak looks for TE to beat zone and teams sit on top of it or bait him into it. A lot of his INT seem to be to the TE in zone. Its on Dak for sure...but is it play calling uncreativity or Dak? Dak ultimately throws the ball...but is it play calling or something else. What is it like compared to the rest of the league in similar play calling situation as Dak? Whats it like for other QBs that have to throw into zone that dont rely on motion or cross routes and dump to TE? How are they better?

@khiladi is the only guy who provides actual analysis like this, that i recall.

 

[VaqueroTD]

You all three make valid points.. I just think that this current version of Dak can beat the SF defense. IF the offensive line can continue to gel. Remember that any potential rematch is 10 weeks away. That gives Steele another two and half months to strengthen that knee. It gives the Smith brothers two and a half more months working side by side. It gives Zack and Biadasz two and a half more months to heal up. Not saying the Cowboys beat the 49ers next time.. but how many here saw them boat racing the Bucs last year in the playoffs with the image of that horrid week one performance fresh in our minds? 3-19 to 31-14? Which should have been 35 if Maher makes a damn kick. That game should teach us that it CAN and does happen. A team can kick your tail the first time around but you can figure things out the next time. And I really think Dak and this offense have figured a LOT of things out these last four weeks.

Makes me optimistic. Good job!

~~Smacks back creeping pessimism that one of the linemen will be hurt again by end of month~~