Dallas Cowboys Offseason 2016: Pass Rush Will Be A Liability For The Cowboys In 2016

[DeaconMoss]

Look around the rest of the league...
Which teams have such amazing front lines?
The Carolina Panthers and Seahawks have really nice defenses yet look at who is playing on their defensive lines...I guarantee you have never even heard of most of the guys.

It's a passing league and Offensive line play have evolved to where you are no longer going to line up and just beat people at the LOS. System needs to generate pressure with waves of confusion and keep the offensive guessing where the rush is coming from.

It's a chess match more than ever...lets hope we aren't still playing checkers.

Actually the Panthers and broncos have significant investment in the def lines. All pros and top 2 round picks

 

[Stash]

Sign the Kraken for vet minimum. I'd be interested at that price

I think it will take more than that, but I'd make it strictly a tow-the-line, inventive-based deal, that's for sure. If he acts up or does anything like the rumors say, cut him. At that point, the team tried and did everything they could and the player simply failed.

 

[Verdict]

From the looks of things, we're right back to the defense we had before they switched over to the 3-4 in the first place. This team was struggling to find a pass rush for years before Parcells brought in the 3-4, drafting Greg Ellis over Randy Moss and lamenting his 7 sacks a year. The days of Shante Carver or Ebenezer Ekuban or Marcellus Wiley.

Many of us feared this exact scenario when word came of the Cowboys wanting to change back to the 4-3 and it has quickly come to pass.

I agree with this message.

 

[AKATheRake]

If he makes it through the summer without failing another test I will be shocked. This is a guy who lost millions getting busted at the *combine*, and was so fazed by that he managed to fail two more tests in his rookie year.

If he even gets on the field this year its a bonus, much less counting on him to do anything.

Don't blame anyone sharing that sentiment.

Not saying count on him, just saying don't count him out as if he still is not part of this teams DE equation after 4 games. The FO is approaching things this way for a reason at the position.

Whether they believe Benson Mayowa is a steal, Rod Marinelli is a magician, Randy Gregory is the goods and can be clean, they are going to draft a "stud" at the position or have Greg Hardy lined up regardless.

Furthermore, he didn't just drop because of the marijuana. Yes, it was a big reason, but he came out 6'5 5/8" at 235 lbs as opposed to 6' 7" 245 as advertised. He was being scouted more as an OLB in a 3-4 and didn't even clock the fastest DL 40 time at the combine. Bench reps of 24 were good for his size though.

Bottom line is, he fell for more reasons than the pot. They weren't even calling him a tweener, put it that way.

 

[gmoney112]

Look around the rest of the league...
Which teams have such amazing front lines?
The Carolina Panthers and Seahawks have really nice defenses yet look at who is playing on their defensive lines...I guarantee you have never even heard of most of the guys.

It's a passing league and Offensive line play have evolved to where you are no longer going to line up and just beat people at the LOS. System needs to generate pressure with waves of confusion and keep the offensive guessing where the rush is coming from.

It's a chess match more than ever...lets hope we aren't still playing checkers.

Haha what? Both Seattle and Carolina have great lines. If you don't know them, you probably don't pay attention to the draft much or the rest of the NFL. Both of Seattle's DE's, alone, are more accomplished than anyone we have on the DL.

They also both have great MLB's, with Carolina having the best in the game.

Most importantly, they both have #1 CB's capable of covering anyone.

You still need talent.

 

[superonyx]

Actually the Panthers and broncos have significant investment in the def lines. All pros and top 2 round picks

Actually the Panthers and broncos have significant investment in the def lines. All pros and top 2 round picks

Here is the Panthers defensive line.
97Mario AddisonDE286-32606Troy 6 Sacks
91Ryan DelaireDE246-42542Towson 2.5 Sacks
94Kony EalyDE246-42753Missouri 5 Sacks
95Charles JohnsonDE296-228210Georgia 1 Sack
71Arthur MileyDE236-62652Southern 0 sack
98Star LotuleleiDT266-23204Utah 1 sack
99Kawann ShortDT276-33154Purdue 11 Sacks
96Paul SoliaiDT326-434510
Utah 0 sacks

Not exactly earth shattering. The DE's gave them 6 sacks and 5 sacks.

Here is the Broncos;
91Kenny AnunikeDE256-42753Duke 0 Sacks
93Quanterus SmithDE266-52553Western Kentucky 0 Sacks
94DeMarcus WareDE336-425812Troy 7.5 sacks
95Derek WolfeDE266-52855Cincinnati 5.5 sacks
98Darius KilgoDT246-33192Maryland 0 sacks
96Vance WalkerDT286-23058Georgia Tech 2 sacks
92Sylvester WilliamsDT276-23134North Carolina 3 sacks

Williams and Wolfe were drafted in the top 2 rounds for the broncos. They have been just average production for where either was drafted.

Ealy was drafted in the 2nd round and Short was also. Lotulelei was a 1st round pick for the Panthers.

These investments do not seem to be the reason they can lead the league in sacks while we are the worst in the league in sack.

 

[superonyx]

Haha what? Both Seattle and Carolina have great lines. If you don't know them, you probably don't pay attention to the draft much or the rest of the NFL. Both of Seattle's DE's, alone, are more accomplished than anyone we have on the DL.

They also both have great MLB's, with Carolina having the best in the game.

Most importantly, they both have #1 CB's capable of covering anyone.

You still need talent.

So you start with a Haha what? Then you proceed to make my point.
This thread isn't about Middle Linebackers....or Cornerbacks.
I thought we were discussing pass rush and why these teams lead the league in sacks while we are terrible in sacks?

No one said you don't need talent. The point is that the reason we can't get a pass rush isn't just because of defensive pass rush talent. Its the team defense (you know CB's, LBers, ect)
Fixing our pass rush isn't just about go and sign this guy, or go and draft this defensive lineman.

9th year Journeyman Cliff Avril isn't the reason Seattle's defensive is so good. Neither is Ahtyba Rubin, or Brandon Mebane.

 

[LittleD]

Here is the Panthers defensive line.
97Mario AddisonDE286-32606Troy 6 Sacks
91Ryan DelaireDE246-42542Towson 2.5 Sacks
94Kony EalyDE246-42753Missouri 5 Sacks
95Charles JohnsonDE296-228210Georgia 1 Sack
71Arthur MileyDE236-62652Southern 0 sack
98Star LotuleleiDT266-23204Utah 1 sack
99Kawann ShortDT276-33154Purdue 11 Sacks
96Paul SoliaiDT326-434510
Utah 0 sacks

Not exactly earth shattering. The DE's gave them 6 sacks and 5 sacks.

Here is the Broncos;
91Kenny AnunikeDE256-42753Duke 0 Sacks
93Quanterus SmithDE266-52553Western Kentucky 0 Sacks
94DeMarcus WareDE336-425812Troy 7.5 sacks
95Derek WolfeDE266-52855Cincinnati 5.5 sacks
98Darius KilgoDT246-33192Maryland 0 sacks
96Vance WalkerDT286-23058Georgia Tech 2 sacks
92Sylvester WilliamsDT276-23134North Carolina 3 sacks

Williams and Wolfe were drafted in the top 2 rounds for the broncos. They have been just average production for where either was drafted.

Ealy was drafted in the 2nd round and Short was also. Lotulelei was a 1st round pick for the Panthers.

These investments do not seem to be the reason they can lead the league in sacks while we are the worst in the league in sack.

Unfortunately, few will pay attention to the facts of your submission. Most here think we (The Cowboys) are hopeless without the
Madden approved 12-strong "all pro" defensive line. The remainder just think that the cancer (Hardy) is all we need to solve all our
defensive problems and win 3 SB's in a row. I haven't seen or heard about any Cowboy's coaches jumping off any bridges yet
though!

 

[DeaconMoss]

Williams and Wolfe were drafted in the top 2 rounds for the broncos. They have been just average production for where either was drafted.
Ealy was drafted in the 2nd round and Short was also. Lotulelei was a 1st round pick for the Panthers.
These investments do not seem to be the reason they can lead the league in sacks while we are the worst in the league in sack.

Von Miller and Ware were top 10 picks. You left them out of your case. So all the lineman for those 2 teams are second round or better.

Crawford - round 3, Thornton UFA are not the same type of investment

 

[Verdict]

If the Cowboys had any interest at all, he would already be in the building. They don't and that ship sailed
last year.

Or maybe the Cowboys would risk him after the first game when his salary is not guaranteed for the year. Personally, I think they REALLY want to stay away from Hardy.

 

[Verdict]

Von Miller and Ware were top 10 picks. You left them out of your case. So all the lineman for those 2 teams are second round or better.

Crawford - round 3, Thornton UFA are not the same type of investment

Where Thornton was drafted is pretty much irrelevant at this point in his career in the same way that the fact that Romo was an UDFA and Brady was a 6th rounder are irrelevant at this point.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

Bottom line. Marinelli had 8-10 guys to rush the passer last year and he will have 8-10 guys to rush the passer this year.
Will the defense be any good. Who can tell at this point. They weren't supposed to be any good in 2014 or 2015 but,
they did pretty well. I put the failure of the 2015 season on injuries to the offense, Garrett and his coaches.

In 2014 well as in getting turnovers, pass rush, not well. In 2015, pass rush once again not well, and the turnovers, not even close to 2014.

 

[Idgit]

I'm at a loss as to what to think of this pass rush. I was sure we'd upgraded it significantly last season with the additions of Gregory and Hardy and the return of Sean Lee (and moving him to the WIL). Not so much. If that sort of paper improvement didn't do anything, I don't know how to measure the impact of not having Hardy in the lineup.

I will say that we've been in the process of addressing the DL for a couple of years now, and that players like Gregory and Lawrence and Crawford are pretty good pieces to build a rotation around. We've got young guys with some upside still. I'd like to see us retain Crawford and still add two more front-7 players in the draft (at least one of them in the top 2 picks). Signing Jones would be a nice piece, too. If we miss out on Crawford and/or Jones, our mix of players is going to be a ways off no matter what we do, I'm afraid.

I like the RB rotation ok right now, though it could always use another impact player.

The secondary, though, is in flux and needs attention. Mo, Wilcox, Heath, and Church all have expiring contracts in 2017. Carr's deal is through 2018, but it's prohibitively expensive. I'm not sure what the plan is, but it's got to involve bringing in some young players this season and next.

 

[LittleD]

In 2014 well as in getting turnovers, pass rush, not well. In 2015, pass rush once again not well, and the turnovers, not even close to 2014.

I agree, not great both years but, they did make the playoffs in 2014 and offensive injuries and coaching blunders
doomed 2015. Marinelli can hold his own if the offense gels this year and can run the ball consistently.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

Here is the Panthers defensive line.
97Mario AddisonDE286-32606Troy 6 Sacks
91Ryan DelaireDE246-42542Towson 2.5 Sacks
94Kony EalyDE246-42753Missouri 5 Sacks
95Charles JohnsonDE296-228210Georgia 1 Sack
71Arthur MileyDE236-62652Southern 0 sack
98Star LotuleleiDT266-23204Utah 1 sack
99Kawann ShortDT276-33154Purdue 11 Sacks
96Paul SoliaiDT326-434510
Utah 0 sacks

Not exactly earth shattering. The DE's gave them 6 sacks and 5 sacks.

Here is the Broncos;
91Kenny AnunikeDE256-42753Duke 0 Sacks
93Quanterus SmithDE266-52553Western Kentucky 0 Sacks
94DeMarcus WareDE336-425812Troy 7.5 sacks
95Derek WolfeDE266-52855Cincinnati 5.5 sacks
98Darius KilgoDT246-33192Maryland 0 sacks
96Vance WalkerDT286-23058Georgia Tech 2 sacks
92Sylvester WilliamsDT276-23134North Carolina 3 sacks

Williams and Wolfe were drafted in the top 2 rounds for the broncos. They have been just average production for where either was drafted.

Ealy was drafted in the 2nd round and Short was also. Lotulelei was a 1st round pick for the Panthers.

These investments do not seem to be the reason they can lead the league in sacks while we are the worst in the league in sack.

What abour pressure? Sacks are one thing, but consistent pressure is just as important.

 

[LittleD]

Or maybe the Cowboys would risk him after the first game when his salary is not guaranteed for the year. Personally, I think they REALLY want to stay away from Hardy.

You and I agree on this. They team almost cut Hardy before the season ended last year and Garrett wants no part
of him on the team this year. Stephen agrees with Garrett.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

Unfortunately, few will pay attention to the facts of your submission. Most here think we (The Cowboys) are hopeless without the
Madden approved 12-strong "all pro" defensive line. The remainder just think that the cancer (Hardy) is all we need to solve all our
defensive problems and win 3 SB's in a row. I haven't seen or heard about any Cowboy's coaches jumping off any bridges yet
though!

Again, its about pressure. Period. Sacks are just one aspect.

 

[superonyx]

Von Miller and Ware were top 10 picks. You left them out of your case. So all the lineman for those 2 teams are second round or better.

Crawford - round 3, Thornton UFA are not the same type of investment

Ware wasn't left off. Ware was listed in the DE's since this is what he effectively plays for Denver. Ware wasn't drafted by the Broncos. Von Miller is a LBer not a DE or Lineman.

You may want to check your facts again. Some of these guys were not even drafted.

Randy Gregory (2nd Round Pick)
Demarcus Lawrence (2nd Round Pick)
Sean Lee (2nd Round Pick)
Rolondo McClain (1st round pick)

I posted the production of the defensive lines for both teams...It wasn't very impressive so you want to change the conversation to players draft position.

Just accept the fact that these teams are not getting all of these sacks from their awesome individual contributions along the defensive lines...or show me that they are.

While I am not a big Crawford fan lets not pretend we didn't just make a real investment in him last season. To the tune of $8 million per year.

 

[Hoov]

In 2014 well as in getting turnovers, pass rush, not well. In 2015, pass rush once again not well, and the turnovers, not even close to 2014.

wasn't the pass rush actually better in 2014 than it was in 2015 with hardy ? That's how I seem to remember it.

The idea from this article that "Hardy leaves a big hole" isn't really substantiated when you look at the fact that 2015 with him was not a big improvement over 2104, if it was an improvement at all.

 

[superonyx]

What abour pressure? Sacks are one thing, but consistent pressure is just as important.

It is just as important.
If you want to take the time to start compiling stats on pressure then I will surely give it a read and a sure like.
These teams put constant pressure on the entire offense. Its very impressive to watch. And very frustrating to be on the receiving end of these waves of pressure.