Dallas valued Zeke more than Ramsey

[Sydla]

Of course, they're going to say the Ravens wanted Ramsey at 4. What team wants to admit they missed out on a player or a trade didn't work out in their favor, especially one so close they can taste it?

Again, I'm a primary source person. Jerry is a primary source. ESPN and Baltimore reporters are secondary sources.

And Jerry also needs to justify why he didn't take the trade. He has to sell it that he couldn't make the trade because they were taking Elliott because he would look foolish not trading down and still being able to get the same guy he wanted all along.

Jerry has lied to your face before. And he'll do it again.

 

[tyke1doe]

And Jerry also needs to justify why he didn't take the trade. He has to sell it that he couldn't make the trade because they were taking Elliott because he would look foolish not trading down and still being able to get the same guy he wanted all along.

With all due respect, this doesn't make sense in the grand scheme of things. If the Cowboys were scared of looking foolish, they would have taken Ramsey. But they took Elliott anyway. The "foolish" scenario isn't applicable because fans who hate the fact we took Zeke too high STILL believe the choice was foolish.

Therefore, your observation is cancelled out by the reality of what actually occurred.

Jerry has lied to your face before. And he'll do it again.

But this presumes that EVERYTHING Jerry has said to our "faces" is a lie, and that's not true.

Jerry is pretty transparent, and this draft proved it once again. The Cowboys have said they would not rule out a running back. Those with a pipeline into the Cowboys organization said the coaches and Jerry were high on Elliott, and that's EXACTLY what happened.

Again, I don't see the motivation for Jerry to lie when the very criticism leveled at him is being leveled at him now.

 

[Sydla]

Actually it makes perfect sense.

If Jerry realizes he could have gotten Elliott at 6 and added a 3rd or 4th round pick, he looks foolish in not doing so. So the way to make sure people can't see you made a mistake is by telling them that we couldn't make the trade because the Ravens were taking Elliott at 4. How can't you see that?

And no, it presumes nothing of what you said. Jerry has lied in the past. Not all the time, but not never. In this case, Jerry very well may be lying to you again so for you to say with 100% certainty he's being truthful is a mistake on your part.

Further, the fact Jax took Ramsey at 5 is even more proof Baltimore wanted the 4th pick to take Ramsey, not Elliott. Baltimore knew they had to jump Jax to get him.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Great chart.

 

[SportsGuru80]

Risen says you can get a Ramsey type in the mid rounds.

Slim to no chance of that LOL!

 

[tyke1doe]

Actually it makes perfect sense.

If Jerry realizes he could have gotten Elliott at 6 and added a 3rd or 4th round pick, he looks foolish in not doing so. So the way to make sure people can't see you made a mistake is by telling them that we couldn't make the trade because the Ravens were taking Elliott at 4. How can't you see that?

And no, it presumes nothing of what you said. Jerry has lied in the past. Not all the time, but not never. In this case, Jerry very well may be lying to you again so for you to say with 100% certainty he's being truthful is a mistake on your part.

First, I didn't say he's telling 100% certainty. I said I believe him for the reasons I stated. I can't prove whether he's telling the truth and neither can you prove he's lying. So what do we do?
We evaluate this matter based on motivation and credibility.

As far as motivation, I find both Jerry saving face and the Ravens saving face as negating factors.

So I move to the concept of credibility. The person who is willing to come forward with information publicly and be identified is the person who is likely more truthful, especially when compared to a person who hides behind anonymity.

Second, a primary source is going to be more credible than a secondary. Jerry Jones is a PRIMARY source. He is the one who heard from the Ravens. ESPN and Baltimore reporters are only told information. They didn't hear this information first hand.

Third, The Cowboys had already "prepped" everyone that Elliott would be their choice. And they have already endured the criticism from fans who waxed ad nauseam about how stupid it would be to take a running back that high. So, to me, it doesn't make any sense that Jerry would want to save face for looking foolish when he could have avoided looking foolish (in the eyes of anti-Elliott at 4 fans) altogether by taking Ramsey. Yet, he made the pick anyway.

So, based on the motivation factor (which cancel each other out) and based on primary sourcing which favors Jones and based on the "foolish" factor which is irrelevant because Jerry and the Cowboys could have taken Ramsey if they were sssooo worried about looking foolish, I reach my conclusion that I believe Jerry is telling the truth.

If you disagree, so be it. But at least I explained my why I believe otherwise.

 

[Sydla]

If the Cowboys prepped everyone they were taking Elliott then Baltimore knows that as well. So if they want Elliott, they had to get to 3. They didn't try to get to 3.

They had no intention of taking Elliott. They wanted Ramsey who they knew was the likely target of Bradley and the Jags at 5. So they had to jump Jax.

The way the 3rd, 4th, 5th picks went down it's about as clear as day what went on and Jerry is just trying to save a little face here IMO.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

With both Ramsey and Zeke on the board, and Dallas choosing Elliot, it's clear who they ranked higher. Had the Chargers taken Ramsey, and our ensuing pick had been Elliot, we might have never truly known who they held in higher regard (it was heavily reported Ramsey and then Elliot). Now that question is fully squashed.

But <<donns M.Night Shamalamama wizard hat>>...what if our top target was Bosa all along? I know, I know, the pre-draft conference gave off an air that they weren't interested in him at all. Jerry also did some double-speak about Zeke and suggested that the shelf-life of a RB and the value of the #4 pick (I took it as, it would be a great asset to have but a short-lived one). By that same token, you could see them beaming about what a dynamic player Ramsey was.

Smokescreen? Do you think they would have taken Bosa over Zeke if available? Me? I don't know, but am glad we took Elliot over Bosa.

Dallas valued Zeke more than Ramsey
Obviously.

 

[DandyDon52]

There is no guarantee ramsey would have been a great safety or CB for dallas, he was a maybe.
There is no telling which position dallas would have played him in.
Tunsil was more of a sure thing, but after gregory, I can see why they shyed from him.

Elliot was the most sure thing and we know what position he will play, and should be a 1st year
impact player.
4 is high to take him at, a trade down might have worked, but it might have lost them elliot.

Nothing was going to be ideal.
Many of the 1st round picks will be busts, or lackluster, but elliot should prove to be a good 1st
round talent.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Aikman/Irvin/Emmitt...is that a super bowl winning core? I think not...wait, nvm.

Can't win like that anymore. That's what I've been told.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Lets not forget that he had plenty of chances to get INTs but he DROPPED them

Probably would have fit right in here.

 

[logan]

Its amazing how much people are freaking out over passing on a DB who put up a stat line of 37 tackles, 0 INTs, & 0 FF. Ramsey might be the most overrated prospect I can remember. The playmaker who doesn't make any plays.

 

[KJJ]

Smokescreen? Do you think they would have taken Bosa over Zeke if available? Me? I don't know, but am glad we took Elliot over Bosa.

Bosa had been eliminated due to pot concerns it was between Ramsey and Zeke. The Cowboys weren't about to take the gamble of drafting a pothead with the 4th overall pick with the pot issues Gregory is going through.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

Can't win like that anymore. That's what I've been told.

star WR, star RB and star QB doesnt win anymore? Those people are drunk...dont listen to them.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Aikman/Irvin/Emmitt...is that a super bowl winning core? I think not...wait, nvm.

To be fair, Romo/Dez/Zeke are not the same as Troy/Michael/Emmitt. Troy, Michael and Emmitt were all about the same age and their careers dovetailed with one another. With Tony, Dez and Zeke, the age differences are key. Tony is only going to be around for a few more years and we all know QB is the key. After that, it's two or three years if we are lucky enough to find a quality QB and develop him. that takes Dez near the end of his career and I've already said that I believe we only have Zeke for his first contract.

JMO

 

[65fastback2plus2]

To be fair, Romo/Dez/Zeke are not the same as Troy/Michael/Emmitt. Troy, Michael and Emmitt were all about the same age and their careers dovetailed with one another. With Tony, Dez and Zeke, the age differences are key. Tony is only going to be around for a few more years and we all know QB is the key. After that, it's two or three years if we are lucky enough to find a quality QB and develop him. that takes Dez near the end of his career and I've already said that I believe we only have Zeke for his first contract.

JMO

I think we were mainly discussing capability

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think we were mainly discussing capability

If that is the discussion, then its really not close. Three players who are all HOFers and three players who haven't even won a Conference Championship. I honestly wouldn't even get into that part of the discussion. The problem is that these three are not going to be together long enough to ever be compared to the Triplets.

 

[JoeKing]

Not really.

The only blasphemy would be if I was trying to compare our Head Coach Clapper in Chief to Jimmy Johnson.

So what Super Bowls did your Romo/Bryant/Elliot triplets win? They don't compare to the original triplets team that JG was on that actually won Cowboys Super Bowls.

 

[Vanilla2]

At this moment I'm for firing any coach that was for drafting Zeke at 4. He won't make any difference to this team and now we still have the same numerous weak links on the team. Jones family has screwed this team up so bad. The draft is ruined so I'm done with it. Romo/Bryant/Elliot... is that a Super Bowl winning core? I think not. I don't see it. Disappointment.

There's always one.

 

[Vanilla2]

At this time it is blasphemous to compare our current trio to the great "Triplets".

And that's why some people can never be happy. Always looking back.