Dallas WR by direction and target depth

[xwalker]

Lol you said just the other day in debate that they didn’t...lol

Context.

 

[xwalker]

No they don’t.

Yes they do.

 

[Dre11]

Context.

There isn’t no context, you clearly pissed on the drop stats, yet you try to stand by these as some measure of Butler being better than Dez, when that’s not the case at all. Then you’re disingenuous about the qb when you know he struggled with accuracy and reads last season, which directly affected all the WRs. The only thing that help save Butler is that he wasn’t on the field enough to really show how average he truly is...lol
He had 3 drops in only 23 targets compared to Dez’s 6 drops in 132 targets.

 

[xwalker]

I usually look at the numbers NFL.com uses

Where is that on NFL.com ?

I see drops on several sites but not the NFL site.
PFF
NBC
Fox
SportingNews

 

[xwalker]

There isn’t no context, you clearly pissed on the drop stats, yet you try to stand by these as some measure of Butler being better than Dez, when that’s not the case at all. Then you’re disingenuous about the qb when you know he struggled with accuracy and reads last season, which directly affected all the WRs. The only thing that help save Butler is that he wasn’t on the field enough to really show how average he truly is...lol
He had 3 drops in only 23 targets compared to Dez’s 6 drops in 132 targets.

The OP shows 12 drops for Dez and 3 for Butler.

 

[Dre11]

The OP shows 12 drops for Dez.

I rather follow the majority, and statisticians in which all them have 6.

 

[jrumann59]

Where is that on NFL.com ?

I see drops on several sites but not the NFL site.
PFF
NBC
Fox
SportingNews

Sorry it was STATs but it is in line with NBCsports

 

[Dre11]

Sorry it was STATs but it is in line with NBCsports

All of them have the same 6

 

[xwalker]

Sorry it was STATs but it is in line with NBCsports

The commom drop stats quoted by the media are the ones that have some WRs with double digit drops.

How many do they show for TWill?

If it's the data that shows TWill with 2 drops, do you really believe he only had 2?

 

[Dre11]

The commom drop stats quoted by the media are the ones that have some WRs with double digit drops.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats...&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=0&sortOrder=0&page=1


http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232


http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&rank=232&type=receiving


http://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

 

[gimmesix]

I spend more time watching game footage than looking at stats. That includes both All-22 and broadcast footage.

Defenses didn't really double Dez very often. I mean true double coverage, not zone coverage.

Many defenses quit having their #1 CB follow Dez. Many just played Right/Left.

It was sad to see plays where Beasley drew true double coverage and TWill or Butler were covered by a #1 CB.

The reason I used Butler for comparison is because people claimed Dez had a low catch % because he ran so many deep routes and that Dak couldn't hit WRs on deep routes.

I agree there was no point attempting so many deep passes to Dez.

A big issue is that they basically quit attempting to have Dez run option routes. We saw many times where Dez and Romo were not on the same page in regards to options routes but then we would see Romo explaining to Dez what he should have done. We would also see Romo coaching up Dez pre-snap.

I'm sure they figured Dak had enough to think about and couldn't coach up Dez and do his own job.

There is a long trail of indicators that point to Dez not being a good route runner. Patrick Peterson laughed about it years ago and last season multiple ex-players/coaches commented about it.

A WR that averages 16M per should not require perfect ball placement and he should not drop a large number of passes that hit his hands.

The problem with more slants and mid-field routes is that mistakes on route running are more likely to result in INTs.

It's coming out now that the Cowboys planned to cut Dez if they signed Watkins.

They are unlikely to go to the Super Bowl with the current receiving options on the roster. They didn't get worse in 2016 when Dez missed 3 games. They might as well cut him and let him pick his QB. They can save that money and use it on a free agent next year. This year they can draft a WR or multiple like they did at CB last year.

There were plenty of times the defenses slanted coverage Dez's way and there were plenty of times he squared off with a No. 1 corner. A lot of his one-on-ones came against No. 1 corners and a lot of the safety leaning his way came when teams put their No. 1 on Williams.

There are definitely some routes Dez does not run as well as others, but he was good enough as a route runner to catch 92, 93 and 88 passes over a three-year span from 2012-2014. Not all of those were deep passes obviously. Most were were those slants, midfield routes, out cuts, etc. If you want to say that's because Romo coached him up, I have trouble believing it. Yes, there were times when Romo pointed out when Dez ran the wrong route, but there are plenty of other times they were on the same page.

He does not require perfect ball placement, but when you are going up for jump balls, they have to be in the neighborhood of the jump. If you are on the sideline with the corner having inside leverage then you are going to have trouble winning a ball that is thrown back to the inside. Dak was simply not very good on those throws.

I think it would have been a mistake for Dallas to cut Dez for Watkins, who hasn't proven himself as a No. 1 receiver, just as I think it would be a mistake to cut him without a No. 1 receiver in place. You don't see that because your view has become skewed when it comes to Dez. We're not just better off without him.

 

[Dre11]

The commom drop stats quoted by the media are the ones that have some WRs with double digit drops.

How many do they show for TWill?

If it's the data that shows TWill with 2 drops, do you really believe he only had 2?

Drops are based on what they consider catchable passes, which is critera used for any receiver.

 

[Dre11]

There were plenty of times the defenses slanted coverage Dez's way and there were plenty of times he squared off with a No. 1 corner. A lot of his one-on-ones came against No. 1 corners and a lot of the safety leaning his way came when teams put their No. 1 on Williams.

There are definitely some routes Dez does not run as well as others, but he was good enough as a route runner to catch 92, 93 and 88 passes over a three-year span from 2012-2014. Not all of those were deep passes obviously. Most were were those slants, midfield routes, out cuts, etc. If you want to say that's because Romo coached him up, I have trouble believing it. Yes, there were times when Romo pointed out when Dez ran the wrong route, but there are plenty of other times they were on the same page.

He does not require perfect ball placement, but when you are going up for jump balls, they have to be in the neighborhood of the jump. If you are on the sideline with the corner having inside leverage then you are going to have trouble winning a ball that is thrown back to the inside. Dak was simply not very good on those throws.

I think it would have been a mistake for Dallas to cut Dez for Watkins, who hasn't proven himself as a No. 1 receiver, just as I think it would be a mistake to cut him without a No. 1 receiver in place. You don't see that because your view has become skewed when it comes to Dez. We're not just better off without him.

 

[Dre11]

There were plenty of times the defenses slanted coverage Dez's way and there were plenty of times he squared off with a No. 1 corner. A lot of his one-on-ones came against No. 1 corners and a lot of the safety leaning his way came when teams put their No. 1 on Williams.

There are definitely some routes Dez does not run as well as others, but he was good enough as a route runner to catch 92, 93 and 88 passes over a three-year span from 2012-2014. Not all of those were deep passes obviously. Most were were those slants, midfield routes, out cuts, etc. If you want to say that's because Romo coached him up, I have trouble believing it. Yes, there were times when Romo pointed out when Dez ran the wrong route, but there are plenty of other times they were on the same page.

He does not require perfect ball placement, but when you are going up for jump balls, they have to be in the neighborhood of the jump. If you are on the sideline with the corner having inside leverage then you are going to have trouble winning a ball that is thrown back to the inside. Dak was simply not very good on those throws.

I think it would have been a mistake for Dallas to cut Dez for Watkins, who hasn't proven himself as a No. 1 receiver, just as I think it would be a mistake to cut him without a No. 1 receiver in place. You don't see that because your view has become skewed when it comes to Dez. We're not just better off without him.

 

[jrumann59]

The commom drop stats quoted by the media are the ones that have some WRs with double digit drops.

How many do they show for TWill?

If it's the data that shows TWill with 2 drops, do you really believe he only had 2?

Yeah they only show the top 10 which only goes to 4 drops. Funny you would think NBCSports would use stats from one of their partners like PFF.

 

[xwalker]

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats...&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=0&sortOrder=0&page=1


http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232


http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&rank=232&type=receiving


http://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

I said quoted by the media. Not sites that display stats.

The game announcer in the Cowboys final game said Dez had 12 drops. That's what I mean in regards to quoted by the media.

PercyHoward is the stats guy around here. I don't think anybody that's been here long would question his stats.

 

[xwalker]

Yeah they only show the top 10 which only goes to 4 drops. Funny you would think NBCSports would use stats from one of their partners like PFF.

You would think the NFL site would have drops but they don't even show targets.

I think the PFF has TWill at 6 and I think NBC references the same data set that has TWill at 2. Either way I'm skeptical that TWill didn't have more than 6 of what you and I would consider drops.

 

[dfense]

So on over 20 yards:
Dez 4 of 19

Butler 6 of 9

Butler caught more with less than half the targets.

Maybe it's not the QB...

You're miss reading that.

It says Butler was in for like 20 plays all season and the only thing he does is run go routes. 15 catches last season.
If you look at every other receiver stat there, someone is good at throwing 6 yard hitch routes at an 80% clip.. Throwing 10 yards or more is a crap shoot. Here's hoping, year 3.

 

[xwalker]

Drops are based on what they consider catchable passes, which is critera used for any receiver.

Different sites have different numbers. The OP has Dez with 12 drops.

Catchable is a subjective concept which is why the stats vary.

The stats with the lower drop numbers are based on the ball being within a few inches of the numbers on the Jersey.

 

[xwalker]

You're miss reading that.

It says Butler was in for like 20 plays all season and the only thing he does is run go routes. 15 catches last season.
If you look at every other receiver stat there, someone is good at throwing 6 yard hitch routes at an 80% clip.. Throwing 10 yards or more is a crap shoot. Here's hoping, year 3.

No, the OP listed target distance. That means how far downfield the WR was located when the pass arrived.

It's not a simple catch stat that just shows the total yards gained on a catch without knowing how far the ball traveled in the air.