Dan Patrick, Chris Mortenson & T.O.

[Qwickdraw]

I too am tired of talking T.O. and am not sure if this has been posted already but some more info has been released about T.O.'s specific behavior problems in Philly as a result of the grievance.

Total Access reported that the Eagles stated that T.O. purposefully arrived late to some meetings, stated he wasn't going to give his full effort as well as parked in a coach's space and parked in a handicap space.

Just found that to be hilarious.

I think he should leagally be allowed to park in a handicap space because he is certainly disabled... mentally.

 

[ternce]

:d Lol

 

[justbob]

Throw Key the ball ---Throw TO out on the street for good

 

[WoodysGirl]

per Mort's article on ESPN insider...

According to sources who have seen the document, allegations the Eagles make against Owens in their case include:

• He was already on notice for previous inappropriate behavior.
• He did not participate in a team autograph session in training camp.
• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children.
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first.
• He said he will not give his full effort.
• He parked his car in a coach's designated spot.
• He parked his vehicle in a handicapped spot on another occasion.
• He was late to a mandatory offensive meeting.
• He failed to comply with team rules pertaining to travel attire.
• He publicly criticized the organization as "classless" and publicly criticized quarterback Donovan McNabb.
• He engaged in a fight with Hugh Douglas at the team facility.
​

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Parked in a coach's spot.

Now the eight game penalty comes clear.

 

[Danny White]

per Mort's article on ESPN insider...

According to sources who have seen the document, allegations the Eagles make against Owens in their case include:

• He was already on notice for previous inappropriate behavior.
• He did not participate in a team autograph session in training camp.
• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children.
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first.
• He said he will not give his full effort.
• He parked his car in a coach's designated spot.
• He parked his vehicle in a handicapped spot on another occasion.
• He was late to a mandatory offensive meeting.
• He failed to comply with team rules pertaining to travel attire.
• He publicly criticized the organization as "classless" and publicly criticized quarterback Donovan McNabb.
• He engaged in a fight with Hugh Douglas at the team facility.
​

That's possibly the lamest set of grievances I've ever seen.

The only big item on there is the fight, and it could be argued that Douglas, an Eagles employee, started that fight.

 

[Yeagermeister]

That's possibly the lamest set of grievances I've ever seen.

The only big item on there is the fight, and it could be argued that Douglas, an Eagles employee, started that fight.

TO apologist

 

[Danny White]

TO apologist

Exactly.

Hey if, I saw TO laying in the middle of the highway, I can't guarantee you I'd swerve.

That said, it doesn't take a TO apologist to recognize a shaky list of grievances when he sees them. In today's professional sports environment, the items on that list are a drop in a bucket. That's a good weekend for Allen Iverson (who's beloved by the Philly fans, I might add).

 

[SA_CowboyFan]

did anyone say who won the fight? TO didn't look messed up, and from what I heard, when the fight was over TO challenged any of his teammates saying "who else wants some?" Sounds to me like he gave Hugh a little whoopin'. I would have liked to see that fight, though.

 

[Doomsday101]

Exactly.

Hey if, I saw TO laying in the middle of the highway, I can't guarantee you I'd swerve.

That said, it doesn't take a TO apologist to recognize a shaky list of grievances when he sees them. In today's professional sports environment, the items on that list are a drop in a bucket. That's a good weekend for Allen Iverson (who's beloved by the Philly fans, I might add).

A guy like Iverson is a reason the NBA ratings are down. I think more and more fans are getting feed up with this behavior, face it you would be canned from you job for pulling some of these stunts that seem to happen on a regular basis. These guys are getting paid damn good money and the organization and the leagues need to start setting higher standards for behavior. Sorry no where but professional sports is this tolerated.

 

[AtlCB]

That's possibly the lamest set of grievances I've ever seen.

The only big item on there is the fight, and it could be argued that Douglas, an Eagles employee, started that fight.

I think these three are significant:

• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children.
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first.
• He said he will not give his full effort.

The rest of the violations listed are minor.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I think these three are significant:

• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children.
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first.
• He said he will not give his full effort.

The rest of the violations listed are minor.

Yes, AtlCB, but under the catch-alls of 'insubordination', or 'conduct detrimental' (the Eagles preferred language) all three of those don't equal one tossed jersey in the HC's face.

Still, there certainly seems to be enough for the four weeker..players have gotten it for much less, but my guess right now is the Eagles are in danger of being overruled on the eight.

 

[31smackdown]

• He was already on notice for previous inappropriate behavior.
• He did not participate in a team autograph session in training camp.
• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children.
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first.
• He said he will not give his full effort.
• He parked his car in a coach's designated spot.
• He parked his vehicle in a handicapped spot on another occasion.
• He was late to a mandatory offensive meeting.
• He failed to comply with team rules pertaining to travel attire.
• He publicly criticized the organization as "classless" and publicly criticized quarterback Donovan McNabb.
• He engaged in a fight with Hugh Douglas at the team facility.

Let's put this into the real world for a second and assume it was at a workplace in corporate america...

1. He was already on notice for previous inappropriate behavior.

AKA...he was on probation..could have been for anything..being late to meetings, etc..

Most of time, being on probation opens you up to a whole new subset of rules and employer rights... If I remember right, my last job it was 2 warnings, first verbal, second written, then probation, then any three "events" after that are grounds for dismissal. You agree to this during the written probation phase.

Events can include most anything deemed detrimental to the work environment and your responsibilities including being late, poor attitude, poor performance, improper behavior, violating dresscode, etc...

So.. I think..

• He did not participate in a team autograph session in training camp... violates team participation policy
• He told coach Andy Reid, his boss, to shut up and showed further disrespect by saying that his last name wasn't Reid, that he wasn't one of Reid's children..... that would be insubordination
• He told offensive coordinator Brad Childress not to speak to him unless Owens spoke to him first... yep...insubordination again
• He said he will not give his full effort.... go tell your boss that... see how they react
• He parked his car in a coach's designated spot... violation of team facility rules
• He parked his vehicle in a handicapped spot on another occasion.... violation of team facility rules
• He was late to a mandatory offensive meeting... showing up late for work or meetings is the quickest and easiest way to get written up.. regardless of your excuses or reasoning
• He failed to comply with team rules pertaining to travel attire. ... violation of dress code.. show up to work in jeans and a t-shirt randomly when everyone else is business casual.. have fun with that
• He publicly criticized the organization as "classless" and publicly criticized quarterback Donovan McNabb... conduct detrimental to the team
• He engaged in a fight with Hugh Douglas at the team facility...physical violence in the workplace...yeah.. that would be a major violation

I don't care if "this is football"... it's still a business and you cannot consistently disrespect or undermine management and the organization. A players actions are a reflection upon their coach and in the end represent the organization.

I'm pretty sure Jeffrey Lurie didn't go to TO to get this resolved, he went to Reid and once these incidents escalated beyond Reid's control, Lurie surely determined that TO was not an employee whom he would like to represent the organization any longer.

 

[bsheeern]

That's possibly the lamest set of grievances I've ever seen.

The only big item on there is the fight, and it could be argued that Douglas, an Eagles employee, started that fight.

Remind me if you ever need a job where I work so I can make sure they don't hire you.
Are you kidding me?
He Started it? that sounds like the crap you hear in 4th grade.
GET REAL

 

[Danny White]

Remind me if you ever need a job where I work so I can make sure they don't hire you.

I'm not saying TO was a model employee... but as someone who employs a number of people, I can tell you that the Eagles need to have a much stronger case than this if they're planning on not paying him money that he's contractually owed.

He Started it? that sounds like the crap you hear in 4th grade.
GET REAL

So I guess we can expect to be reading about how the Eagles will be dismissing Hugh Douglas soon? I mean if fighting is justification for suspension, then that only makes sense.

You need to "get real" -- if the Eagles organization sent Douglas in to "mix things up" with TO to bait him into doing something that they could axe him over... don't you think that will make a huge difference to the arbitrator?

As long as we're talking about "getting real" -- what do you think would happen if I sent employee #1 to start a fight with employee #2 because I was hoping to fire #2? And then used that fight as justification to fire the #2? Do you think that would fly? I'll tell you what would probably happen, employee #2 would probably sue my arse and win!


Some people here are living in a fantasy world where everything is cut and dried and TO is some comic book villan to whom the Eagles can do whatever they like just because he's a jerk.

Real life is much more nuanced. I'm sorry if some people can't grasp that. In the mean time, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't talk down to me like I'm some neanderthal TO apologist who goes around challenging my co-workers to fisticuffs.

 

[nathanlt]

Some people are saying that the offenses are minor... Hey, if an organization lets the "minor stuff" go, the major stuff is not far behind. To have team discipline and chemistry, you have to pay attention to the little things. I'm glad Parcells pays attention to the little things in Dallas.

I'm glad that T.O. has wrecked the Eagles, but then again, I wish he weren't in the league period. He diverts attention away from great performances and good football.

Parking in a coach's spot is not minor, it demonstrates that having a beligerent attitude is acceptable within the organization. They should have pounded him then with severe punishment, don't let that punk act like a punk. T.C.O. (aka Terrell "Cancer" Owens) acts like a baby. In fact, I've met 2 year olds with more maturity than he has. He will, and has torn teams apart.

 

[joseephuss]

I have been listening to the Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio. He and Mort seem to think that the arbitrator will rule in favor of T.O. I agree. They both think that T.O. has a chance of being released by Philly at some time this season.

Dan suggests that if T.O. is released with about 4 or 5 games to go, that several teams will go after him. I also agree with this and think Dallas should be one doing the pursuing.

I am not in favor of Dallas going after T.O. in the off season. I think they may ask around and probably at least should look into it. In the end, there are too many negatives and not enough positives to sign him for a whole season and a new contract.

If he is released, that changes a lot of the circumstances. He would have less time to create havoc for Dallas. They would only have to pay him his remaining salary for the year, which is not that much. They could easily cut him in the off season with no hit to their salary cap. For that matter they could cut him after a game or two if he proves to be a nuisance. The risk is reduced quite a bit.

I think a lot of teams will approach T.O. being available this season much differently than his availablity in the off season. Short-term, high risk, high reward vs. Long-term, higher risk, high reqard. I could actually get behind him coming on for the remainder of the season.

 

[Danny White]

Parking in a coach's spot is not minor, it demonstrates that having a beligerent attitude is acceptable within the organization. They should have pounded him then with severe punishment,

That's an excellent point.

If you're planning on firing an employee, or not paying them according to their contract, you need to be very careful in how you document your case. Often, as others have suggested, you need a clear history of incremental warnings... taking action for an item like the parking space would have been an excellent opportunity that the Eagles apparently passed up.

 

[Wimbo]

Incoming! <duck>

 

[Vertigo_17]

If the arbitrator rules against the Eagles, they still have the option of deactivating him for the remainder of the season. They will not release him, as that is what TO wants them to do.