DC: T.O. Among 15 Modern-Era Hall Finalists; Woodson, Johnson Don’t Advance

[Fletch]

This goes hand in hand with no Cowboy getting MVP this year too.

 

[CyberB0b]

Mike Martz?

“You can’t print how I felt when T.O. leapfrogged those two (Bruce/Holt). That’s just plain out-and-out ridiculous…. Had they promoted themselves, which was contrary to everything we were about, they’d probably get in without an issue. Had they pulled a T.O., they’re probably get in without an issue. That’s just not who we were.
“If they big-timed it and did all that dumb stuff, they’d probably get in earlier."
​

And I pretty clearly said he'd get in, too. I just said I wouldn't vote for him, because I wouldn't. He was a narcissistic *** who did as much damage to his team Monday through Saturday as he helped it on Sundays.

​

TO had a way longer and more productive career than those two. He was amazing on the field.

 

[Idgit]

TO had a way longer and more productive career than those two. He was amazing on the field.

He definitely was. I wasn't agreeing with Martz. Only providing an example of a coach who didn't believe TO should be in the Hall.

 

[CyberB0b]

He definitely was. I wasn't agreeing with Martz. Only providing an example of a coach who didn't believe TO should be in the Hall.

Right. I had to quote you, since you quoted him. Quote Inception.

 

[fredp22]

Instrumental in building a dynasty that should have had at least one more super bowl. That was a 4-peat waiting to happen.

What more did you want him to do? Block for Emmitt?

I'll preface this by saying I liked Jimmy but-

he ran out on the Cowboys and didnt do jack with Miami before running out on them
he inherited Irvin, wanted Seau over Emmitt, and Walsh over Aikman
he has a lifetime 80-64 record.
ROH yes...HOF just dont see it

 

[Idgit]

Right. I had to quote you, since you quoted him. Quote Inception.

Whoah.

 

[bayeslife]

I know there's no realistic way to keep him out, but TO would never have my vote if I were in position to vote on such things. His great negatives pretty much cancel out his great positives. But he's just too productive on paper to ignore, I'm afraid.

Unfortunately it's not the Hall of Good Behavior otherwise I would agree with you

 

[MarkP88]

The idea that Jerry will very likely make it in before Jimmy or Woody is mind boggling. (And I say this as someone who doesn't have a huge problem with him making it in...if you're going to let owners get into the Hall, then whatever.)

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I'll preface this by saying I liked Jimmy but-

he ran out on the Cowboys and didnt do jack with Miami before running out on them
he inherited Irvin, wanted Seau over Emmitt, and Walsh over Aikman
he has a lifetime 80-64 record.
ROH yes...HOF just dont see it

I hear ya and accept your points... for you.

He really didn't run out on Cowboys. Jerry helped push. Was happy to see him go.
Wanted to win it without Jimmy. Only problem... it was still part of jimmys creation.


Miami - are you kidding me? With Dan "I much prefer to pass than run the ball" Marino.
He never had a chance.

His true love was Dallas. Miami was the girlfriend that you thought could replace previous one but realize they couldn't.



Wasn't there a picture inside of this issue with Marino fake choking Jimmy?

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

I hear ya and accept your points... for you.

He really didn't run out on Cowboys. Jerry helped push. Was happy to see him go.
Wanted to win it without Jimmy. Only problem... it was still part of jimmys creation.


Miami - are you kidding me? With Dan "I much prefer to pass than run the ball" Marino.
He never had a chance.

His true love was Dallas. Miami was the girlfriend that you thought could replace previous one but realize they couldn't.



Wasn't there a picture inside of this issue with Marino fake choking Jimmy?

And it wasn't like Jimmy was a total failure in Miami. He led them to the playoffs twice but yea that was Dan Marino's team. Jimmy never had control there like he had in Dallas. You can look at other HOF coaches that coached in more than one place and most didn't do well there either.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

And it wasn't like Jimmy was a total failure in Miami. He led them to the playoffs twice but yea that was Dan Marino's team. Jimmy never had control there like he had in Dallas. You can look at other HOF coaches that coached in more than one place and most didn't do well there either.

Man... would I like to yuk it up with Jimmy over a couple drinks and tell him his glorious those days were for me.
When he got up to the podium. I listened.
When he said THREE INCH HEADLINES.... I went out and repeated it..


A football god amongst men.... it's not how long he did it..., it's the quality/result of when her was doing it.




AND...

IF Jimmy was still coaching for 1994 NFC championship game. He stops the bleeding and we win.
No way we go down by 21points in less than a quarter.

Steve young never sees super bowl.

 

[CyberB0b]

I know there's no realistic way to keep him out, but TO would never have my vote if I were in position to vote on such things. His great negatives pretty much cancel out his great positives. But he's just too productive on paper to ignore, I'm afraid.

What negatives? He produced everywhere he went, and made Jeff Garcia look like an NFL QB, and put McNabb in MVP discussions. He just needed to be managed properly, which Romo did. He never killed anyone (Ray Lewis, Leonard Little, Dwayne Goodrich), and never really got into trouble. He was the last of the diva WR, which is what the NFL is missing these days.

 

[CyberB0b]

And it wasn't like Jimmy was a total failure in Miami. He led them to the playoffs twice but yea that was Dan Marino's team. Jimmy never had control there like he had in Dallas. You can look at other HOF coaches that coached in more than one place and most didn't do well there either.

He also changed the way drafting was done in the NFL. His coordinators were all excellent. He orchestrated the greatest robbery trade in NFL history.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

He also changed the way drafting was done in the NFL. His coordinators were all excellent. He orchestrated the greatest robbery trade in NFL history.

I can't believe anybody who was a Cowboy fan back then and saw how Jimmy transformed that team into a championship squad can say that he isn't a HOF'er. It was just something to watch. Compare that to after he left and watching the championship team slowly fade to mediocrity.

 

[dallasdave]

This goes hand in hand with no Cowboy getting MVP this year too.

 

[Idgit]

What negatives? He produced everywhere he went, and made Jeff Garcia look like an NFL QB, and put McNabb in MVP discussions. He just needed to be managed properly, which Romo did. He never killed anyone (Ray Lewis, Leonard Little, Dwayne Goodrich), and never really got into trouble. He was the last of the diva WR, which is what the NFL is missing these days.

He was a HoF talent that got kicked off of, what, 5 teams for what he did the rest of the week. I agree he was the most talented WR in the league for a period of years there, including some of Randy Moss' heyday. But something's very wrong with a player that good getting let go from that many teams. And leaving wreckage in his wake most of the time after he's let go. The guy was a double-edged sword.

And, while I'd agree that's not as bad as actually killing people, that's not exactly the bar I was trying to clear here for my HoF players. To me, the Hall represents more than just physical ability and on-field production. If the huge impact you have on your team on Sundays is mitigated by the way you behave and divide the rest of the week, and that affects your teams' seasons negatively, that ought to be factored in to how you're evaluated for the Hall.

I know commonly they overlook off-the-field impact for players, and that's the right way to do it, I think, but this isn't off the field. TO specifically did things to divide lorckerrooms and that affected on-field performance for not just him. The way he tore about PHI was both amazing to watch and really damaging to his team. Then he tried to pull the same antics in Dallas and it wasn't so funny.

 

[Cowboy89]

How do people feel about Jerry getting in? Business wise, there may never be anyone greater. Football wise, the results haven't been staggering. With that said, he cares deeply about winning. He just hasn't always gone about it the right way.

Ot: Jerry is 74. It's possible within 10 years or so that he's gone. Who will own the team? His family? Hate the idea of a different owner coming in and threatening to move the team to a different city.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

How do people feel about Jerry getting in? Business wise, there may never be anyone greater. Football wise, the results haven't been staggering. With that said, he cares deeply about winning. He just hasn't always gone about it the right way.

Ot: Jerry is 74. It's possible within 10 years or so that he's gone. Who will own the team? His family? Hate the idea of a different owner coming in and threatening to move the team to a different city.

I don't think you have to worry about that. As for Jerry, I'm indifferent. If he gets in I'm fine with it. If he doesn't I'm fine with that too.

 

[mldardy]

The only way Jimmy Johnson should ever get in the HOF is with a ticket. He doesn't deserve to be in the HOF or even considered really. He was a good coach.. but not a great coach.

Yeah he should get in with a ticket. A ticket punched to a HOF induction. He was a great coach for all the reasons I mentioned in my original post about him. He's better than some coaches already in the HOF. Give me a break.

 

[DallasEast]

The idea that Jerry will very likely make it in before Jimmy or Woody is mind boggling. (And I say this as someone who doesn't have a huge problem with him making it in...if you're going to let owners get into the Hall, then whatever.)

Bert Bell. Charles W. Bidwill, Sr. Al Davis. Edward DeBartolo. George Halas. Lamar Hunt. Earl Lambeau. Tim Mara. Wellington Mara. George Preston Marshall. Dan Reeves. Art Rooney. Dan Rooney. Ralph Wilson.

13 owners.

All inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Bell, Halas, Lambeau, Mara, and Marshall were inducted in the Hall's FIRST class of 1963.

Owners have been inducted into the Hall for over half a century. And the NFL isn't the only professional team sports organization that honors franchise owners.