Discussion in 'Off-topic Zone' started by BulletBob, Apr 26, 2004.
Kirsten Dunst was the little girl in Interview with a Vampire.
Well you learn something new everyday....I did not know that.
Try doing a google search next time
Doh!!...Curses Foiled again
A decent Deadwood forum I googled up.
Last night's episode had to be the funniest yet. The interaction of Swearengen and the imbecile who he promoted had me literally gasping for breath I was laughing so hard.
How about Al during the town meeting muttering under his breath, "Ad Hoc, gratis, free, whatever."
And E.B. volunteering to be mayor was hysterical, as was Jane's drunken rant.
I frickin love this series. The dialog is hands-down the best I have ever seen on any screen. Kudos, HBO.
Well it looks like we may lose Jane....looks like she was heading out last night...I hope that she will be back shortly because she really makes me laugh.
Last night was very good.
Last nights episode had me laughing so hard I was crying.
The whole scene with Al and Mr Wu yelling CS to each other about the men who stole the dope really had me rolling.
Also the poor preacher man is really in a bad way but when he was kicking his leg by the piano it was kind of funny. Poor Al and that piano...I can not believe he has not shot the thing yet.
Very interesting how it is finally shaping up with a possible fight between Al and Sy ....they were getting along too well.
My favorite exchange from last night:
E.B. to Al: "Well, is there anything that your mayor needs to know?"
Al's Reply: "The name of a different tailor."
I lost track on the CS count lol
Shwingin is quickly becoming my favorite tv character.
Good episode last night IMO.
The Widows father coming in makes for some intersting story ideas that could unfold.
Also When the lady with the problems tells Al she saw the doc because she was knocked up had me laughing.
And the poor preacher...sad to see his character get so bad...even looked like Al was about to shed a tear.
And talk about a happy ending last night for Al with the whore that was very funny.
Her comment was classic but what is more is that Al almost believed her .
The question is who would have done the deed? I'm guessing the idiot with the beard.
I think it's interesting that the father showed up rather quickly after they found out the claim was a bonanza.
I'm dying to see If Ian McShane draws an Emmy nom.
Here's the guy who starred as the smooth and sophisticated art dealer "LoveJoy" in A&E, who played Christopher Marlowe in the Life and Times of William Shakespeare, and who played Judas Iscariot in Franco Zefferelli's Jesus of Nazareth in the late 70's. A classically trained stage actor.
And now he's the very aptly named Al "Swear"engen.
But he's pretty riveting in the role.
Still, the nature and frequency of the swearing doesn't jive with EITHER the historical or linguistic record.
The Oxford English Dictionary is the best etymological source and maintains the CS word didn't really become "popular" til the very late 19 century, I believe the 1890's. The ** word wasn't seriously making the rounds til the early 20th. The "C" word originally derived from a medieval term for culling the earth. It's another word that was rarely used in the sexual insult sense in the 1870's.
The historical documents in no way show these words were creeping into personal letters, or business communication. The likeliest way to find if they were used is if they crop up in court records. If someone like Swearengen had to appear in a court proceeding, the "stenographer" recorder would by law be bound to record it verbatim. That's how we often discover how a word was taking root or boadening semantically to take on another meaning, and how prevelent its use was at any time.
If folks were swearing by force of habit and using the words as adjectives for every noun imaginable, like ol Al does, no way that wouldn't have seeped into court records. Plus there has been enough serious research on slang, swears, and idioms published on the old West, and nowhere is it indicated that that much swearing went on.
The consenus is those folks DID swear, but it was of the religious type profanity, like damn, or ********, and maybe some more colorful inventive stuff, as insulting with creativity was something of an art form in the Old West, functioning like a 19th century "dozens" game, or rap contest.
But the nonstop obscenity of Al is too much even for WWII era discourse, when four letter word usage had taken on "swearing like a drunken sailor" dimensions.
It's funny, but it's a real hot topic now in academia re the historical and linguistic evidence for the vocab. Scholars are going back and forth on just when the F word started to be used primarily as an adjective and not a verb, and debating crap the etymological record clearly decided years ago. Students are coming to history classes with a whole new interest . Did they really swear that much in the Old West? Maybe some history majors will come out of it. I give an eytomology paper assignment each semester and let the students choose any word in the English language to research from three sources, including the OED. Last spring I got a C word and an F word along with the usual fascination in the roots of "f*g. You used to get words like "hooligan" and "gypsy".
Gotta chalk it up to Deadwood. I guess.
Those folks lived in rough circumstances, and were vulgar and profane enough, for sure, but there is zero evidence anyone was as four letter word obsessed as McShane's character.
Evidently more of an HBO shock/ratings/envelope pushing decision than a real reflection of the 1870's West, and that's too bad.
I wonder if it sees a second season.
I do not know about the specific words that were used at that time...but by many accounts I have read of Martha Jane Canary later to become married and called Martha Burke (Calamity Jane) she indeed was known for being very bad about using bad language and cursing on a regular basis in her time.
And chances are if SHE did that as a woman then it was probably not uncommon among many men she was around...because in many ways she was a woman who was trying to be like a man, tough and take no crap in those days.
She had lost most of her family and she was a woman that took many chances and did many brave things.
Her nickname came after she saved a General or Col who was hurt during a fight with indians...I think he was the only one to survive that fight.
She rescued many people on a stage coach from indian attacks....in real life she did work in deadwood during the time when they had an outbreak of the pox.
I have put a couple of links to some stuff on her on the first page of this thread that was pretty interesting.
Also they already signed a deal to do a second season of Deadwood...I think that was done after the first few shows as it was getting so many good reviews.
Once again I do not know about the specific words being used at that time...but there were some rough language...even if it seemed rough then and not now.
Of course though I am sure it was updated to make it seem worse now for some dramatic and shock effect...but IMO it does not take away from the great acting, story lines and over great job that the show has done.
HBO sits down with Ian McShane
What did you think when you first got a hold of the pilot script?
I was in England, and my agent said that there was this script for American TV, and how would I like to videotape an audition. And I said, 'Jesus Christ! I think I've reached a stage better than that at my age.' And he said, 'Well, it's HBO, it's David Milch and it's Walter Hill.' And I said, 'Where do you want me to show up?' So I did my tape, and two days later I was in Hollywood, and three weeks later I was on a ranch in California with a big f**king mustache.
You shot the pilot out at Gene Autry's ranch?
Yeah. Autry'd be spinning in his f**king grave if he knew what we were shooting out at his ranch!
Is it true what they say about playing the villain?
Well, they say the devil gets the best tunes, yeah. I did the musical version of The Witches of Eastwick two or three years ago, playing Daryl Van Horne. So I think it was a nice build-up to Al Swearengen.
The real devil...
The real devil, yeah. Mr. Swearengen, as Mr. Milch writes him and I try to do him, is a complex, incredible human being, a pioneer. Extraordinary. He's just one of the forces of nature.
A lot of people have described working with Milch, and his process of reworking the script after watching the actors. Did you find it unnerving to work with a script that was constantly evolving?
No, I found it totally exciting personally. He's a true producer-creator; he sees a certain way. The actors love it because you've got that immediacy going on, it's sort of part of the action.
The costumes are authentic wool, the streets are mud, and you're in Southern California in July. Would you call the set conditions grueling?
It was hot, but, you know, it somehow gets you into it. The first few days out there, I think it got up to 125 degrees on the sound stage. They had this air conditioner, I think it was the first one invented. [Laughing] The one cube of ice. It was steaming, but somehow it sort of concentrated you, you know everybody was so up for the job. Everybody was soaked, and, you know, it's quite an intense show in a way. But it's also a lot of fun to do.
Did you go through a cowboy phase as a kid?
Oh yeah, my dad was a professional soccer play for Manchester United, and when they toured America back in '51, he brought me a little Roy Rogers suit. I've still got the pair of guns from it.
You know, I actually preferred the Indians, but they weren't selling Indian outfits then.
So it's almost time to return to production for season two.
We got word last week, so the old mustache is growing back in shape again.
How does it feel, heading back in for another round?
You know something, it's great. I can't wait to get back there-- it's very thrilling.
If you're an actor and you enjoy what you do, it's a hell of a job. In season two, you should really be feeling the confidence of season one, and you also want it to be better than the first season. So everybody's up for it in a different way.
And you don't know what Milch has got up his sleeve. He's a hard man to give a compliment to, you know? You say, 'David, if I wasn't in this show, I'd be watching it.' And the reply is: 'Wait 'til you see what storylines I got for you next year.' [Laughing].
McShane is incredible on this show.
I like it, but the only characters I really care about are Bulluck and Swearengen...
regardless, the show is well done and hilarious most of the time...
Those two clearly drive that show....however I really do enjoy most of the characters.
It is just such a good show that kind of came out of nowhere...I do not even know if the people putting the show together knew it would have came out so well.
However I will bee soon finding myself in soprano and deadwood withdraw.
I fear that at this late stage in the Six Feet Under series it would not be good for me to start watching it now (never have watched it), at the risk of not understanding what the heck is going on.
I remember I did not start watching the Sopranos until the 4th season...and I was really confused until I seen the series 1-3 on DVD.
Either way...Deadwood really hooked me.
Foo Fighter...thanks for posting that....and btw Welcome back...I have not seen you post in awhile.
I was hoping that they would do a second season.
Paesan, one of the early interviews with the director revealed that he fully knew the language to be anachronistic. He added it to impact the viewer in the gut with how rough a place the Old West actually was. Judging by the widespread reaction, though, I'm not sure he entirely achieved his objective.
If you can get past the bad language, the dialog is absolutely outstanding. I cannot recall a series with a more sophisticated interchange between the rich characters. I've been totally bowled over as an innocent bystander - I can only imagine my appreciation if I'd have had your training & background.
I believe it is the most well-written television show I have ever seen.
The acting is phenomenal. Did anyone catch the Doctor's drunken soliloquy about what he had experienced during the Civil War? That's powerful acting, my friends.
I honestly hope this show sweeps the Emmies. Excessive use of foul language is its only shortcoming (IMHO).