Dean Blandino on Micah holds

[Big_C_KU]

I agree with Blandino to an extent. The more you fight through holds, the less officials will notice them. However, you can't just give up fighting so the holding call will be made because there's a good chance the officials still won't call it. It needs to just be continually harped on until the officials get it. Not by Micah but by the media, by the team, etc.

The fighting through the hold is a good point. I remember in the 2nd Philly game on every play at least 1 Philly pass rusher would immediately hold up their arms calling for holding call the moment they were engaged by a Dallas OL even if there was nothing there. They had a strategy to try and bait the refs into at least 1 holding call every drive and it worked early in the game. Eventually though the refs caught onto their BS and they stopped baiting them into the flag.

 

[Redline360]

Had this discussion at work last week.

I honestly think why Parsons and others such as Garrett don't get holding penalties(obvious) is because this league is so heavily centered around the offense/quarterback and "fantasy football stats". The state of quarterbacks in this league right now is atrocious from what we have been used to for decades. Parsons and Co wont generate flags as to protect the quarterback as they could live in the backfield half the game. Also the depth of offensive line quality is also pretty bad.

 

[jazzcat22]

There is no "truth." There is a number without context. So I'm asking for context. You wrote 5 sentences instead of just saying, "I don't have context, just non-directional outrage at a growing number because that's what the tally is designed to do."

I did not say anything about context. And you are turning it into something else which means nothing. Because you think you are always right about the refs. When you are not.

 

[TheHerd]

Waiting for an OL to put Parsons in a choke hold?

Way too late. Miami game, several times!

 

[DogFace]

The avg number of holds a game called on an offense is 2.5.

https://www.olbg.com/us/blogs/nfl-penalties

How many have we drawn, as a team, during this stretch?

 

[InPhiltraitor]

Not sure why so much Dean angst. His first two words are “That’s holding” and he’s not excusing the officials, he’s just trying to provide a plausible explanation and I think he’s got a point.

Micah’s get off is sick and he’s STILL pressing the pocket which makes the hold, which we know can be called every play, appear less of a factor AND Micah continues fighting through the mugging. Is it fair? Hell no, but also consider the league directive to keep QB’s upright.

A downside I just considered to not drawing flags while being held is the amount of unnecessary energy being spent by Micah to work through the excess grabbing. And we wonder why he may wear down throughout the game.

Idk. Highly doubt it’s intentional by any crew but what makes me wonder on occasion is the amount of hands to the face this guy takes and that’s one officials usually catch.

 

[MarcusRock]

This is the problem. “Material restriction” aka a completely subjective measure that refs can just decide for themselves when to call.

Then we as fans are supposed to just suck it up and say “ok the ref decided not to throw a flag that time Micah had an arm around his neck. No biggie”.

Yeah right.

Okay. Determining holding or PI are by themselves a subjective call. How else do you write the rule? That a defender can't touch a player at all and if they do, it's an automatic foul? You have to insert degrees into things because nothing is black and white. However, an arm around the neck is usually the result of the rusher using a rip technique. And holding isn't called because the rules specifically say it puts the OL in a position of holding. So it is holding but the rusher chose to use a move that could lead to an exemption. But we'd need tape for that determination.

 

[gimmesix]

The fighting through the hold is a good point. I remember in the 2nd Philly game on every play at least 1 Philly pass rusher would immediately hold up their arms calling for holding call the moment they were engaged by a Dallas OL even if there was nothing there. They had a strategy to try and bait the refs into at least 1 holding call every drive and it worked early in the game. Eventually though the refs caught onto their BS and they stopped baiting them into the flag.

I don't think Parsons believes they would be called even if he threw up his hands. In fact, he did it on at least one play and it still wasn't called, but maybe that's because he tried to still pursue the play before throwing his hands into the air. I can't blame him, giving up on the play to try to show the official you are being hold could just result on no call being made and the offense just having to contend with one less defender. It's really a catch-22 unless you knew for a fact that if you stuck out your hands to show you had been held, it would be called.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Not sure why so much Dean angst.

Dez caught it.

 

[MarcusRock]

I would gladly do the research if someone can point me to a site that tracks penalties on a game by game basis, including player committing the penalty and player impacted by the penalty..and I do not mean going through ESPNs play by play to find the penalties.

I wish there was and believe me I've already looked because I would run the numbers myself, even though it's the complainers' beef to prove which they never do and piggyback on outrage. There's nflpenalties.com but they only track who the offender was on an individual basis. I know about that site because it was the one I used to show that when there was chatter about holding not being called in favor of Dallas' DL for like 8 games in a row (on passing plays only), Detroit had an almost identical stretch for one less game that very same season. Like this case, I was asking questions then about how rare an occurrence it was to see if there should be any outrage at a number someone threw up to surely incite outrage. Sure enough another team was going through the same thing the same season. But it's Detroit and the refs hate them too for some reason, lol.

It's also the site I used to run numbers on Zack Martin being called for holding when one time he had a stretch of over 180 quarters I believe without being called for holding. I wonder if other teams' boards had a tally going. Even right now, he's on a streak of 1 less quarter than Micah getting the benefit of a holding call.

 

[nightrain]

Anytime a TE is the first blocker to engage a rushing Parsons, it should be an automatic holding call.

 

[J12B]

Funny that he says, "but it's not intentional."

 

[MarcusRock]

Idk how you can make that justification on a pass play. Micah is rushing the passer. There’s not a point of attack. I don’t care which direction the QB is throwing the ball, you shouldn’t be able to hold somebody who is rushing a QB that has the ball.

Well, in the Chicago game, Micah said that's what the ref told him so they're not shy about why they don't call something. What the ref said is in the rulebook. Micah complained here so maybe we'll hear what they told him on this one.

 

[HungryLion]

Okay. Determining holding or PI are by themselves a subjective call. How else do you write the rule? That a defender can't touch a player at all and if they do, it's an automatic foul? You have to insert degrees into things because nothing is black and white. However, an arm around the neck is usually the result of the rusher using a rip technique. And holding isn't called because the rules specifically say it puts the OL in a position of holding. So it is holding but the rusher chose to use a move that could lead to an exemption. But we'd need tape for that determination.

I honestly don’t know the solution. I’m pointing out that some of the biggest calls in the game are subjective and fans are bound to get pissed when the refs choose to make or not make a call which negatively impacts their team.

 

[HungryLion]

Well, in the Chicago game, Micah said that's what the ref told him so they're not shy about why they don't call something. What the ref said is in the rulebook. Micah complained here so maybe we'll hear what they told him on this one.

If the refs made that determination on this play, it’s a very poor decision on their part.

Again, an example of poor officiating overall.

We can discuss the various reasons for why the officiating is poor and we are. But this is just more evidence that the officiating overall sucks and the NFL needs to keep working to improve it.

 

[MarcusRock]

The question is a red herring. Who cares what the numbers are. All you gotta do is go back and watch video of Micah getting absolutely mugged repeatedly over this stretch of games to deduce that the refs are missing clear holds against him.

I don’t care about conspiracies or any of that nonsense.

The refs for whatever reason are not doing their damn jobs and calling clear and obvious holds against Micah.

Even if you’re not going to call a hold every time. The least they could do is call one occasionally just to set an example. Because if I was an opposing OC I would tell my lineman “go ahead and hold Parsons, the refs are blind idiots and not calling it anyway”

So now asking for numbers to clarify how rare something is to see if one actually should be outraged is a red herring? Do you not see the irony of asking for numbers in response to someone shouting numbers as a case for deviousness? Why aren't people shouting "46 quarters, 46 quarters" a red herring not actually knowing what the rules are for holding? Lol.

For video, maybe someone should put together a tape of Micah being held "almost every play" like what I'm hearing because video evidence is rare. People love their still photos but they show absolutely nothing of a penalty solely determined by motion. Even Micah himself posted a still shot of him supposedly being held in the Miami game and when you watch the video, it wasn't a hold in any shape or form from what I saw. He didn't even complain of a hold on the play like he did in this one so it was probably something he came across later on social media from a complainer and used it. Not a good look to not know the play you're holding up as holding wasn't actually holding. Show the tapes!

 

[HungryLion]

Well, in the Chicago game, Micah said that's what the ref told him so they're not shy about why they don't call something. What the ref said is in the rulebook. Micah complained here so maybe we'll hear what they told him on this one.

I should also add

The referees are given the power to make these type of subjective determinations on calls that have a massive impact on the outcomes of these games.

Referees who are human beings. Human beings who all have their own explicit and implicit biases.

And we as fans are just supposed to accept that referees decision making is 100% on the up and up and their personal bias never impacts their very clearly subjective decisions?

I’m not even talking leaguewide conspiracy or anything like that. But we are supposed to just accept that every ref is on the up and up and being as fair as possible at all times? Idk that’s a tough sell.

Especially considering we already saw a few years back where the referees as a whole there a hissy fit and colluded to not overtime PI’s upon review because they were all butthurt about the rule change.

 

[HungryLion]

So now asking for numbers to clarify how rare something is to see if one actually should be outraged is a red herring? Do you not see the irony of asking for numbers in response to someone shouting numbers as a case for deviousness? Why aren't people shouting "46 quarters, 46 quarters" a red herring not actually knowing what the rules are for holding? Lol.

For video, maybe someone should put together a tape of Micah being held "almost every play" like what I'm hearing because video evidence is rare. People love their still photos but they show absolutely nothing of a penalty solely determined by motion. Even Micah himself posted a still shot of him supposedly being held in the Miami game and when you watch the video, it wasn't a hold in any shape or form from what I saw. He didn't even complain of a hold on the play like he did in this one so it was probably something he came across later on social media from a complainer and used it. Not a good look to not know the play you're holding up as holding wasn't actually holding. Show the tapes!

Yes it’s a red herring. Micah is either being held, uncalled, during this last stretch of games or he isn’t.

Numbers and overall historic trends don’t matter when you can just look at the tape and watch the games.

Micah is getting held a frequently and it hasn’t been called in 11 games. Thats a fact. Regardless if historical trends. Dean Blandino admits as much but is clear to point out “it’s not intentional”

 

[MarcusRock]

But material restriction for a player with his speed is different than material restriction for players who cannot burst to the quarterback like he does. I think that's part of where the problem lies and where an adjustment needs to be made. His path is impacted and he is impeded from getting where he could get if not held. (I don't think it's just him by the way, just that he's the greatest example of it because of how long he's gone without drawing a call.)

Don't know. He's hardly the only fast rusher there's been out there so it's not like refs haven't seen someone similar. Again, at the end of your post, why is how long he's gone an issue if we don't know that he's (or other top pass rushers) actually had even longer streaks in his career?

 

[glimmerman]

It’s not hard to see. And nothing will be done about it. And the NFL will hide it. Same as other things that the media hides.. Or just don’t talk about…