Defense Defense Defense

It's all about the pass rush.

In my opinion there is nothing that special about either team's secondary. Josh Norman is good but even your best secondary players in the league can get burnt without a pass rush. A good pass rush creates turnovers and produces pro bowl caliber secondary players.
 
rocyaice said:
Being that when he inherited them they were the worst defense in the league that's a good improvement when you factor in the support the offense gave them. I'm not a fan of his defense or scheme but the defense didn't embarrass themselves. They played good enough to win.
Click to expand...

Considering the two teams going to the Super Bowl had the two best defenses, and ours was 24th, not sure about the being good enough part. Actually, we are not good enough.
 
Tenkamenin said:
Is Marinelli responsible for drafting DTs?
Click to expand...

Uh he has input. The front office probably builds their draft board and strategy off input from coaches. Marinelli doesn't value the 1 tech in terms of needing a stud there. He just wants a body. Therefore, the front office is likely not going to take a 1 tech early in this draft because of Marinelli's scheme.
 
Our first 2 picks need to be Myles Jack and Karl Joseph. We can get a 1 tech in free agency and draft one 5th round with a trade up from 6. You dont win a super bowl with barry church or a weak lb core. People overrate how bad the dline is. Sign Ian Williams and Mario Williams/Greg Hardy and the dline is fine. I could look at Lawrence, Williams, Crawford, Mario Williams as a championship unit.
 
BlindFaith said:
Considering the two teams going to the Super Bowl had the two best defenses, and ours was 24th, not sure about the being good enough part. Actually, we are not good enough.
Click to expand...

I think the point is that the defense did enough to win games. I personally believe the defense would have been good enough to make the playoffs if we did not have the worst QB play in the league. Our defense had it's faults, mainly pass rush and turnovers, but our offense didn't do them any favors. Typically, an opposing offense could run a real conservative gameplan because they knew our offense was bad enough that we could not score more than 14 points most games.
 
rockj7 said:
Looking at these Championship games what seems to be a common theme is we need to bolster this Defense to top 5 with a murderers row of a front 7. Even with Denver's safeties out do to injury, because they had pass rush they pulled it off in the end.
Click to expand...

Absolutely!

After they draft a QB, QB, QB for the future
 
Dallas has to make it's run now.

I would sign vets and overall good dudes Mebane and Weddle in the offseason and entertain Myles Jack in the first if available. If Hardy's issues are manageable I bring him back and bid McClain good-bye.

Prescott or Brissett would make a quality developmental QB going forward.
 
robjay04 said:
It's all about the pass rush.

In my opinion there is nothing that special about either team's secondary. Josh Norman is good but even your best secondary players in the league can get burnt without a pass rush. A good pass rush creates turnovers and produces pro bowl caliber secondary players.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's all about the pass rush. I think it starts with the secondary. QB's get rid of the ball so quickly that often times the pass rush can't get there even if a pass rusher went completely unblocked.

The first step starts with tackling. Every single team I've seen in the playoffs tackles better than Dallas. Especially in their secondary. And most of the teams were substantially better tackling teams than Dallas.

The ball is getting out of the QB's hands quickly and into the hands of a playmaker in the open field. You have to bring down the ball carrier immediately and make those passes ineffective.

You need safeties and corners that can play both man and zone so the defense can switch up man and zone and be able to face the wide variety of pass patterns from different teams. Dallas didn't play much zone and got killed on pick plays. When they played zone, corners like Claiborne and Carr were not all that effective in part because they were terrible tacklers. Wilcox is horrendous in zone. So now you become a clear as day defense where the QB knows what the coverage is and knows where to go with the ball. And that means less INT's and less sacks.

So the pass rush is a moot point if you can't switch up and disguise coverages. And you're going to be attacked with short passes if you struggle to tackle well.

For me, I would rather fix the coverage issues on the backend first and then worry about the pass rush. This isn't 1995 anymore. Hell, it's not 2005 anymore. Pass rushes can now be rendered moot.





YR
 
rockj7 said:
Looking at these Championship games what seems to be a common theme is we need to bolster this Defense to top 5 with a murderers row of a front 7. Even with Denver's safeties out do to injury, because they had pass rush they pulled it off in the end.
Click to expand...

dexternjack said:
Defense wins championships, always has and always will.
Click to expand...

Like the old and true saying...
Offense sales tickets, Defense wins championships
or in short
offense sells, defense wins

But we still better get the future franchise QB in the 1st 2 rounds in this draft....:laugh:
 
reddyuta said:
Yes.he has influenced our FO where they will not draft draft DTs high.If you dont believe me than google Stephen Jones comments on the matter.He thinks he can get by with Jags at 1tech.at some point you have to draft talent at Dt our your whole Defense will be stagnant and not improve no matter what you do at other positions.
Click to expand...

Average CB's and the leagues worst safeties........ BOTH positions and throw in the LBer's.

Yeah, a DT will save this motley crew.

It stinks from the DL back, IMO.
 
Yakuza Rich said:
I don't think it's all about the pass rush. I think it starts with the secondary. QB's get rid of the ball so quickly that often times the pass rush can't get there even if a pass rusher went completely unblocked.

The first step starts with tackling. Every single team I've seen in the playoffs tackles better than Dallas. Especially in their secondary. And most of the teams were substantially better tackling teams than Dallas.

The ball is getting out of the QB's hands quickly and into the hands of a playmaker in the open field. You have to bring down the ball carrier immediately and make those passes ineffective.

You need safeties and corners that can play both man and zone so the defense can switch up man and zone and be able to face the wide variety of pass patterns from different teams. Dallas didn't play much zone and got killed on pick plays. When they played zone, corners like Claiborne and Carr were not all that effective in part because they were terrible tacklers. Wilcox is horrendous in zone. So now you become a clear as day defense where the QB knows what the coverage is and knows where to go with the ball. And that means less INT's and less sacks.

So the pass rush is a moot point if you can't switch up and disguise coverages. And you're going to be attacked with short passes if you struggle to tackle well.

For me, I would rather fix the coverage issues on the backend first and then worry about the pass rush. This isn't 1995 anymore. Hell, it's not 2005 anymore. Pass rushes can now be rendered moot.





YR
Click to expand...

Truthfully, I didn't watch a ton of the Panthers game yesterday but I did see the game against us and the Broncos game. In the Broncos game specifically, I saw a QB under duress the whole game and Brady is known for getting rid of the ball quick...it didn't matter though because he had pressure within two seconds. Broncos had a ton of injuries in their secondary and even the Panthers lost their starting safety yesterday. Both the Panthers and Broncos are pressure defenses, that makes the secondary look better, in my opinion. You won't find a defense in the NFL that is great at coverage but doesn't get pressure...they go hand in hand.

Either way, we can have differing opinions, that is fine. I think an elite pass rush would upgrade our secondary as much as any single player or players would.
 
robjay04 said:
Truthfully, I didn't watch a ton of the Panthers game yesterday but I did see the game against us and the Broncos game. In the Broncos game specifically, I saw a QB under duress the whole game and Brady is known for getting rid of the ball quick...it didn't matter though because he had pressure within two seconds. Broncos had a ton of injuries in their secondary and even the Panthers lost their starting safety yesterday. Both the Panthers and Broncos are pressure defenses, that makes the secondary look better, in my opinion. You won't find a defense in the NFL that is great at coverage but doesn't get pressure...they go hand in hand.

Either way, we can have differing opinions, that is fine. I think an elite pass rush would upgrade our secondary as much as any single player or players would.
Click to expand...

Brady gets rid of the ball quick on those short, horizontal pass patterns.

If Denver does not have the DB's to cover that stuff and use zone and man to switch things up...the pass rush never gets to Brady and he has a field day.

The Panthers basically run a nickel defense (4-2-5). Thomas Davis and Luke Kuechly are so incredible against the run and they have corners that can actually tackle that it makes sense to play a 4-2-5. And Davis may be the best cover LB in the game and Kuechly is an excellent coverage LB as well. But, it's all for not if they have Brandon Carr and Morris Claiborne type tackling out on the corners.






YR
 
stilltheguru88 said:
Our first 2 picks need to be Myles Jack and Karl Joseph. We can get a 1 tech in free agency and draft one 5th round with a trade up from 6. You dont win a super bowl with barry church or a weak lb core. People overrate how bad the dline is. Sign Ian Williams and Mario Williams/Greg Hardy and the dline is fine. I could look at Lawrence, Williams, Crawford, Mario Williams as a championship unit.
Click to expand...

I like your thinking. Unfortunately I think any kind of dynamic talent on defense will be wasted by Marinelli. But we could give it a try.

This approach is the win now and forget about the future approach.

Getting one of the top 3 QBs is a "future" type move.

I keep going back and forth on either approach.
 
Last edited:
robjay04 said:
I think the point is that the defense did enough to win games. I personally believe the defense would have been good enough to make the playoffs if we did not have the worst QB play in the league. Our defense had it's faults, mainly pass rush and turnovers, but our offense didn't do them any favors. Typically, an opposing offense could run a real conservative gameplan because they knew our offense was bad enough that we could not score more than 14 points most games.
Click to expand...

Offenses had no need to open things up because of our horrendous offense. Our defense would have been even more exposed had other teams actually needed to score points.
 
BlindFaith said:
Offenses had no need to open things up because of our horrendous offense. Our defense would have been even more exposed had other teams actually needed to score points.
Click to expand...

You could be right but in that same note...our sacks and turnovers probably would've been better as well if teams had to be more aggressive. Last season, our defense was less talented on paper than this defense...main difference is we had an offense that scores points and put pressure on opposing offenses to do the same to keep up.
 
Yakuza Rich said:
Brady gets rid of the ball quick on those short, horizontal pass patterns.

If Denver does not have the DB's to cover that stuff and use zone and man to switch things up...the pass rush never gets to Brady and he has a field day.

The Panthers basically run a nickel defense (4-2-5). Thomas Davis and Luke Kuechly are so incredible against the run and they have corners that can actually tackle that it makes sense to play a 4-2-5. And Davis may be the best cover LB in the game and Kuechly is an excellent coverage LB as well. But, it's all for not if they have Brandon Carr and Morris Claiborne type tackling out on the corners.






YR
Click to expand...
i think Leon Hall would be great pickup. He can play man/zone and tackle. Hed be low cost so we could pick up 2 corners in free agency. Mo shouldnt even be an option option.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Staff online

Members online

... and 129 more.
Total: 4,440 (members: 229, guests: 4,211)
Robots: 2,343

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
475,617
Messages
14,627,242
Members
24,220
Latest member
Wineorange
Back
Top