Demarcus Ware - perfect definition of a sack technician

[CowboyFrog]

Parsons has the ability to go down as the greatest defensive player of all time. I don’t care who’s feelings I’m hurting.

I hope your right....he has started off great for sure.

 

[Dallasfann]

This so reminds me of...

"Well, Bob, he never got big sacks. He never did much in the 4th quarter."

Wrong.

DeMarcus Ware sacks by quarter: 1st Q - 34.5; 2nd Q - 40.5; 3rd Q - 25; 4th Q - 38.5. It appears he had quite a few sacks in the 4th quarter.

In fact, in Ware's career, no player in the sport had more sacks in the 4th quarter than DeMarcus Ware. In the entire sport.

But, yeah, keep telling yourself that he disappeared at the end of games.​

I understand we didn't win anything during Ware's career here, but I just don't get where the "Ware never _______" narrative came from.


The guy is the best PLAYER, not just defensive, but PLAYER the Cowboys have had since their Super Bowl teams.

Seattle. Cowboys up 6. Cowboys defense allows a TD drive with 4 minutes left in the game to win it. D Ware..no sacks on the drive. Or in the entire game. Did get 1 tackle for us.

Giants. Cowboys up 3. Cowboys defense allows TD drive late 3rd/early in the 4th quarter. We lose. D Ware..1 sack midway through the 3rd quarter.

Eagles. Cowboys up 34-7. Cowboys defense plays good as does there offense. We win the game easily. Ware pads his 4th quarter sack stats with 2. Both nice, but albeit meaningless. As a matter of fact on one of his sacks the very next play was an 8 yard TD pass for the Eagles. All in all nice game.

Vikings. Game tied 0-0 3rd play of the game. Ware sacks Farve. Cowboys get killed.

No big sack fumbles anywhere. No timely sacks that help us win. That's just playoff games I came up with. I'm sure I could do even better in week 17 win or go home games. D Ware was great, I'm not saying he wasn't. He just never made impact plays to help us in playoff games. (where you kind of need impact plays to win)

 

[CowboyFrog]

Seattle. Cowboys up 6. Cowboys defense allows a TD drive with 4 minutes left in the game to win it. D Ware..no sacks on the drive. Or in the entire game. Did get 1 tackle for us.

Giants. Cowboys up 3. Cowboys defense allows TD drive late 3rd/early in the 4th quarter. We lose. D Ware..1 sack midway through the 3rd quarter.

Eagles. Cowboys up 34-7. Cowboys defense plays good as does there offense. We win the game easily. Ware pads his 4th quarter sack stats with 2. Both nice, but albeit meaningless. As a matter of fact on one of his sacks the very next play was an 8 yard TD pass for the Eagles. All in all nice game.

Vikings. Game tied 0-0 3rd play of the game. Ware sacks Farve. Cowboys get killed.

No big sack fumbles anywhere. No timely sacks that help us win. That's just playoff games I came up with. I'm sure I could do even better in week 17 win or go home games. D Ware was great, I'm not saying he wasn't. He just never made impact plays to help us in playoff games. (where you kind of need impact plays to win)

Do you view Reggie White as a good player? if I showed you what he did in 4th qaurters against the 90's Cowboys, would that change your mind? Again if you pick the way its measured and want to you could make alot of great players look bad....hence your "pad stats" statement..thats the first "I'll choose how i want this to count" statement.

 

[Dallasfann]

Since I already know you will say "most of that was in Denver", here is just his Dallas Playoff stats:

4 games
Record 1 win, 3 losses
10 tackles
4.0 sacks
4 TFLs
6 QB hits
1 FF
0 FR

Oh ... so what it looks like he was pretty darn consistent in playoff game for Denver AND Dallas. Inconceivable!!!!!

D Lawrence in his first 4 playoff games for the Cowboys

4 games
Record 2 wins, 2 losses
12 Tackles
2 Sacks
4 TFL's
3 QB hits
1 FF
2 FR

Guess we should start giving Lawrence more credit then. People would lose their mind if you compare him to Ware. I just did and I could argue his first 4 games are just as if not better then Wares.

 

[CowboyFrog]

D Lawrence in his first 4 playoff games for the Cowboys

4 games
Record 2 wins, 2 losses
12 Tackles
2 Sacks
4 TFL's
3 QB hits
1 FF
2 FR

Guess we should start giving Lawrence more credit then. People would lose their mind if you compare him to Ware. I just did and I could argue his first 4 games are just as if not better then Wares.

Most who now the game think Dlaw is a very good DE..

 

[Blitzen]

Seattle. Cowboys up 6. Cowboys defense allows a TD drive with 4 minutes left in the game to win it. D Ware..no sacks on the drive. Or in the entire game. Did get 1 tackle for us.

Giants. Cowboys up 3. Cowboys defense allows TD drive late 3rd/early in the 4th quarter. We lose. D Ware..1 sack midway through the 3rd quarter.

Eagles. Cowboys up 34-7. Cowboys defense plays good as does there offense. We win the game easily. Ware pads his 4th quarter sack stats with 2. Both nice, but albeit meaningless. As a matter of fact on one of his sacks the very next play was an 8 yard TD pass for the Eagles. All in all nice game.

Vikings. Game tied 0-0 3rd play of the game. Ware sacks Farve. Cowboys get killed.

No big sack fumbles anywhere. No timely sacks that help us win. That's just playoff games I came up with. I'm sure I could do even better in week 17 win or go home games. D Ware was great, I'm not saying he wasn't. He just never made impact plays to help us in playoff games. (where you kind of need impact plays to win)

Agreed. Defensive ends and outside linebacker pass rushers can only control numbers of sacks and forced fumbles in big playoff games. You are proving he was a JAG in big playoff games. Well done.

 

[Dallasfann]

Most who now the game think Dlaw is a very good DE..

Do you read this board? You guys can twist my post whichever way you want, the fact of the matter is Ware never made impact plays for us in playoff games where we desperately needed one from him. It never happened. Argue that as much as you want, but when people are calling you the best defensive player in the league at the time, I expect you to make a play that alters the outcome of the game. Ware never did it, not one single time in the 4 playoff games we played in. Prove that wrong.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Do you read this board? You guys can twist my post whichever way you want, the fact of the matter is Ware never made impact plays for us in playoff games where we desperately needed one from him. It never happened. Argue that as much as you want, but when people are calling you the best defensive player in the league at the time, I expect you to make a play that alters the outcome of the game. Ware never did it, not one single time in the 4 playoff games we played in. Prove that wrong.

Nah I'll let you rant on...again you already said his sacks in those games dont count, whats the point in any argument with that?

 

[Dallasfann]

Nah I'll let you rant on...again you already said his sacks in those games dont count, whats the point in any argument with that?

Let me try to help you understand what I mean. Who had a better career. Troy Aikman or Dan Marino and why? I say Troy because he played great when it mattered and won 3 SB's. He wasn't even that great in the regular season. I'm assuming you prefer Dan Marino because...well...he sure was good in week 3.

 

[Praxit]

....Lets just say, I'm waiting for my Parsons Jersey in the mail. ...

 

[Blitzen]

Let me try to help you understand what I mean. Who had a better career. Troy Aikman or Dan Marino and why? I say Troy because he played great when it mattered and won 3 SB's. He wasn't even that great in the regular season. I'm assuming you prefer Dan Marino because...well...he sure was good in week 3.

Agreed. The Cowboys Super Bowl teams had equivalent talent/coaching/scheme as any Miami Dolphins team that Marino played for. Definitely apples to apples argument. Great points.

 

[SackMaster]

Ware's issue was that he jumped offside about two to three times as often as the other best sack guys of his time. So half of the time he was giving up 5 yards to get 7.

I don't understand comments like that either in the era of the internet. So, I went to nflpenalties.com to see if that was true, and here is what I found:

NOTE:

• The penalty numbers I have listed here are Penalties CALLED, not just accepted
• The site only goes back to 2009, so that is not my choice in the matter
• I tried to stick with passrushing 3-4 OLBs, since that is what Ware played

DeMarcus Ware
From 2009 to 2016 Ware played in 114 games and committed 43 total penalties, 30 of which were Defensive Offsides, with another 6 Neutral Zone Infractions

Elvis Dumervil
From 2009 to 2017 Elvis played in 117 games and committed 41 total penalties, 22 of which were Defensive Offsides, with another 8 Neutral Zone Infractions

Tamba Hali
From 2009 to 2017 Hali played in 129 games and committed 17 total penalties, 8 of which were Defensive Offsides, with another 2 Neutral Zone Infractions (WOW!!!!)

Terrell Suggs
From 2009 to 2019 Suggs played in 148 games and committed 51 total penalties, 28 which were Defensive Offsides, with another 9 Neutral Zone Infractions

Von Miller
From 2011 to 2019 Von played in 135 games and committed 69 total penalties, 33 which were Defensive Offsides, with another 13 Neutral Zone Infractions


The only person of the 5 players where Ware "jumped offside about two to three times as often as the other best sack guys" is Hali.

But Hali was definitely the EXCEPTION, and not the rule.


So I think this is YET ANOTHER debunked claim.

 

[Dallasfann]

Do you view Reggie White as a good player? if I showed you what he did in 4th qaurters against the 90's Cowboys, would that change your mind? Again if you pick the way its measured and want to you could make alot of great players look bad....hence your "pad stats" statement..thats the first "I'll choose how i want this to count" statement.

Are you talking about 3 sacks in the SB Reggie White? I don't think you understand the point of this assignment. Reggie White altered offenses play calling. D Ware was not that guy. He just wasn't.

 

[SackMaster]

Seattle. Cowboys up 6. Cowboys defense allows a TD drive with 4 minutes left in the game to win it. D Ware..no sacks on the drive. Or in the entire game. Did get 1 tackle for us.

Giants. Cowboys up 3. Cowboys defense allows TD drive late 3rd/early in the 4th quarter. We lose. D Ware..1 sack midway through the 3rd quarter.

Eagles. Cowboys up 34-7. Cowboys defense plays good as does there offense. We win the game easily. Ware pads his 4th quarter sack stats with 2. Both nice, but albeit meaningless. As a matter of fact on one of his sacks the very next play was an 8 yard TD pass for the Eagles. All in all nice game.

Vikings. Game tied 0-0 3rd play of the game. Ware sacks Farve. Cowboys get killed.

No big sack fumbles anywhere. No timely sacks that help us win. That's just playoff games I came up with. I'm sure I could do even better in week 17 win or go home games. D Ware was great, I'm not saying he wasn't. He just never made impact plays to help us in playoff games. (where you kind of need impact plays to win)

OK, fair enough.

Now please find me a passrusher who dominates every big game he plays in.

I'll wait.

 

[SackMaster]

D Lawrence in his first 4 playoff games for the Cowboys

4 games
Record 2 wins, 2 losses
12 Tackles
2 Sacks
4 TFL's
3 QB hits
1 FF
2 FR

Guess we should start giving Lawrence more credit then. People would lose their mind if you compare him to Ware. I just did and I could argue his first 4 games are just as if not better then Wares.

So Lawrence is a savior with those stats, but Ware "is a player that never played big in a big game" with his?

I mean, Ware EASILY beats him in sacks and QB hits (you know, his primary job of making QBs not so comfortable), but Lawrence has those two extra fumble recovery guys ... So clearly Lawerence is sooooo much more clutch than Ware guys!!!!!

 

[Dallasfann]

OK, fair enough.

Now please find me a passrusher who dominates every big game he plays in.

I'll wait.

That's the problem. If Ware just did it once or twice it would change my view on him. That is my point. He never ONCE did it for us. He never once came out with blood all over him in a win or go home game with 3 sacks and a FF to lead the Cowboys to the next round. EVER. It never happened. You would think with how great he was he would of had one game in a win or go home game where he showed the world that he's the best defensive end on the planet. It never happened. A huge sack, forced fumble on Eli Manning in the 4th quarter the flops field position. A drop back pick 6 on Brett Farve when we are down 3-17 to take us down 7 late in the 3rd with possible momentum. It never happened. Yet, he still gets glamorized on this board like he was one of the best ever. Just look at these last few pages. Loved the player hated that he never made big plays in go home games. Twist and turn that as you desire.

 

[Dallasfann]

So Lawrence is a savior with those stats, but Ware "is a player that never played big in a big game" with his?

I mean, Ware EASILY beats him in sacks and QB hits (you know, his primary job of making QBs not so comfortable), but Lawrence has those two extra fumble recovery guys ... So clearly Lawerence is sooooo much more clutch than Ware guys!!!!!

Case and point. I just made someone lose their mind for even comparing the 2. This board..Romo choked in big games, Ware was great all the time. So funny.

 

[SackMaster]

That's the problem. If Ware just did it once or twice it would change my view on him. That is my point. He never ONCE did it for us. He never once came out with blood all over him in a win or go home game with 3 sacks and a FF to lead the Cowboys to the next round. EVER. It never happened. You would think with how great he was he would of had one game in a win or go home game where he showed the world that he's the best defensive end on the planet. It never happened. A huge sack, forced fumble on Eli Manning in the 4th quarter the flops field position. A drop back pick 6 on Brett Farve when we are down 3-17 to take us down 7 late in the 3rd with possible momentum. It never happened. Yet, he still gets glamorized on this board like he was one of the best ever. Just look at these last few pages. Loved the player hated that he never made big plays in go home games. Twist and turn that as you desire.

OK, I think I got the hang of it.

Ware should have held that ball during the game winning the FG attempt in Seattle.
He should have caught that pass over the middle that was dropped by Crayton against the Giants.
He should have been there to block the Minnasota D-Line that DESTROYED our O-Line.
He should have been playing safety to stop all those deep throws against us in the playoffs.
He should have taken over the coaching duties so they would not make so many bad calls.
He should have been the GM so he could have drafted better players to play with.

Ware did not care ... hell, he didn't EVEN TRY (I mean, he NEVER had "blood all over him") .... Not until he got to Denver. Then he became a MAN!!!!

Did I sum up your feelings correctly? I would HATE to misrepresent you.

 

[Dallasfann]

OK, I think I got the hang of it.

Ware should have held that ball during the game winning the FG attempt in Seattle.
He should have caught that pass over the middle that was dropped by Crayton against the Giants.
He should have been there to block the Minnasota D-Line that DESTROYED our O-Line.
He should have been playing safety to stop all those deep throws against us in the playoffs.
He should have taken over the coaching duties so they would not make so many bad calls.
He should have been the GM so he could have drafted better players to play with.

Ware did not care ... hell, he didn't EVEN TRY (I mean, he NEVER had "blood all over him") .... Not until he got to Denver. Then he became a MAN!!!!

Did I sum up your feelings correctly? I would HATE to misrepresent you.

Sure.

 

[SackMaster]

Case and point. I just made someone lose their mind for even comparing the 2. This board..Romo choked in big games, Ware was great all the time. So funny.

Well, when you compare HALL OF FAME players to guys who probably won't ever come close to making the Cowboys ROH, what do you expect?

Wait, wait, wait ... Ware isn't in the HOF yet .... So you still have time to try block him from going in since he "never made a play when it mattered".