Derrick Brown possibly being on the board at 17

[kskboys]

What? No...

I know going in what certain players are good at.

I know if I sign Robert Quinn it's not to improve my run defense.

I know if I draft Derrick Brown it's not to improve my pass rush.

Brown would improve your pass rush exponentially. Collapsing the pocket is what makes the pass rushers even more effective. Big picture.

 

[RS12]

Him or Kinlaw is what they need for starters. I think there will be a run on QBs and OTs which will fill at least 8 of the picks prior to 17.

 

[Iago33]

Depends, which WRs are there? I'm not taking him over any of Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs or Reagor.

I want to pause and ask for an explanation. Most people view our defense as the main issue and don’t want to spend more resources on offense. But you keep coming back to WR. This is a strong WR crop, but why use our first pick? Are you expecting to lose Cooper or do you really think our offense needs the investment right now? Honest Q.

 

[tyke1doe]

i don't ignore the tape.

He was often triple teamed and still caused havoc. I'm with you. If he's there, you sprint to the podium and announce the pick before Jerry changes his mind.

 

[Future]

I want to pause and ask for an explanation. Most people view our defense as the main issue and don’t want to spend more resources on offense. But you keep coming back to WR. This is a strong WR crop, but why use our first pick? Are you expecting to lose Cooper or do you really think our offense needs the investment right now? Honest Q.

I don't think defense is a problem, from a talent perspective, but I think a lack of playmakers on offense is a problem.

I want to sign Cooper AND draft a WR. #1 priority for every team in the league should be building a dominant pass offense, independent of how good the run game is. When you can do that, you put your defense in a much better position, and can get away with a defense that is less talented, but doesn't have to be so risk averse b/c there's a slim margin.

Dallas under JG tried to keep everything close and then win games late. That doesn't work with any consistency in today's NFL, and with the way the rules are, you don't need a run game. Build a dynamic passing offense, and everything else easily falls into place.

 

[Rayman70]

no way its happening unless he fails a drug test or some kind of domestic abuse thing comes up. The guy is going top 10.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I think he compares very well as a prospect to Vita Vea and Dexter Lawrence from the last two classes. Vea went #12 to the Bucs, Lawrence went #17 to the Giants, and I don't think either team is unhappy with their pick.

It's worth noting that Lawrence and Vea didn't even try to do the jump drills or agility trials at their Combines, pry because they knew they'd struggle in them.

 

[Future]

I think he compares very well as a prospect to Vita Vea and Dexter Lawrence from the last two classes. Vea went #12 to the Bucs, Lawrence went #17 to the Giants, and I don't think either team is unhappy with their pick.

It's worth noting that Lawrence and Vea didn't even try to do the jump drills or agility trials at their Combines, pry because they knew they'd struggle in them.

Vea has 20 lbs on Brown, and flashed a lot more explosion in college - they ran basically the same 40. The Giants should be, if they aren't, b/c Lawrence isn't going to be a difference maker.

 

[UncleOscar]

If he slips to 17, I'm sure the Cowboys will look at their board and scouting reports and say, "Who is this guy? He's not on our board. What should we do? Should we draft him? Does he fit out defense? Should we trade down? What should we do?"

 

[Bowdown27]

if he's there.....you run the card up to the podium and don't look back.

Him or Kinlaw I’ll dive in the water in front of the Bellagio and swim up to give in that card myself.

 

[tm1119]

I stopped reading the thread at “bad combine”

Tells me all I need to know

 

[beware_d-ware]

On a different note: one thing the Combine does a very, very bad job of measuring is football strength.

For a 300 pound lineman, benching 225 is an endurance test. It doesn't matter how strong he is, it matters how long his arms can hold up for a minute straight. For football plays that are over in 5 seconds, that doesn't matter. Bench press stats have proven to have no correlation to NFL success at any position over 20 years.

On the flip side, the jumps are a really, really good football test across all positions, because they measure that ability to generate explosion (and because they're effectively untrainable), but they don't measure a lineman's ability to lock in and drive with their legs. Connor Williams had a 96th percentile broad jump, for example, and that hasn't translated at all. The hate Jaylon Smith got for the Pro Bowl bag drill is another good example.

I read an article last month about how the NFL scouts were thinking about scrapping the bench press and replacing it with an upper-body punch test. You'd have a medicine ball loaded with an accelerometer, and players would punch or throw it. F=MA: with the mass of the ball known and the motion sensor giving you the acceleration, you know how much force a guy is punching with.

For lower body strength, my first thought is to measure it with a one-rep-max squat test, but you don't have the time to do that with 200 players. Maybe give them 3 seconds to drive back a 300lb blocking sled and see how far they can move it.

Anyway, just a rant about what I see as a major flaw in the current system. The system does a good job at predicting success for the "fast" guys, like say running backs, WRs, or gap shooting DTs, but for power players like say Travis Frederick, the Combine basically leaves you in the dark.

ETA: The Sports Illustrated article I was looking at.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/02/19/nfl-combine-changes-coming-interviews-bench-press

Spoiler

The bench press has been one of the combine components since at least 1985, but many NFL evaluators don’t take it seriously as an indicator of football strength. The bench press is an endurance strength test, and Foster says the committee had discussions about replacing it with a pure strength test that would better project to functional football strength—something like pull-ups, or having players push and throw medicine balls that have an accelerometer inside (a drill like this would measure the amount of force a player can generate by shoving with his hands, a genuine football move).

I polled a handful of scouts on the purpose of the bench press. They all agreed that it doesn’t translate to the field and is only useful when comparing current prospects to past players. Many scouts view the bench press as just a number to reference. It shows NFL teams how much time a prospect spends in the weight room, but not whether that endurance strength will help a wide receiver beat press coverage. Scouts evaluate functional strength live during games or practice and on tape.

“The majority of the combine drills are antiquated and have limited relevance,” one veteran scout says. “If we want to evolve, sure, there will be a gap of time without the ability to compare current to past, but we need to focus more on the future.”

The bench press will still be a part of this year’s combine, but Foster says they are considering eliminating it in the future in an effort to modernize and make sure that each component of the combine is applicable to football.

The bench press hangs on for now, but here are some other changes to watch for this year.

Vea has 20 lbs on Brown, and flashed a lot more explosion in college - they ran basically the same 40. The Giants should be, if they aren't, b/c Lawrence isn't going to be a difference maker.

He's smaller than either, but I think he is just as strong, and that's the main part of all their games.

 

[btcutter]

I'm not either.. He's great.. At stuffing the run and eating up blocks.

I don't feel like I need to spend a 1st round pick to get someone who is quality at doing what he does.

You sound like Marinelli now.

I can get from point A to point B with either a BMW or Kia.... prefer BMW.

 

[visionary]

I think this is a realistic possibility at this point.

I always felt he was overrated in terms of what he is good at and the value that provides to the team. Me personally I wouldn't draft a run stuffing D Tackle in the 1st round. I feel like you can get a veteran version of this player cheap in Free Agency.

He had a bad combine and I don't see him being a pressure player at the next level.

IMO Kinlaw is the #1 DT in this draft because he can put heat on the QB.



So.. If we get to draft day and Brown is on the board what do you do? Draft him and accept that he will not be much of a difference maker?

draft him and cut him right away because no good

 

[NeonNinja]

Sign me up for Brown/Kinlaw.

 

[Bigdog]

I would take him.

 

[Rayman70]

draft him and cut him right away because no good

obviously he will get a chance in camp. Make no mistake, if he has bad habits and just a bad attitude, MM won't tolerate him long. High draft pick or not.

 

[chicago JK]

I really don't know the prospects yet, but an interior lineman is my number one wish list heading into the draft. Heck, two interior lineman will be better.

I have no idea if Vander Esch and Jaylon will ever be healthy and as productive as they were two years ago. Although, having top end talent in front of them, will make it much easier to evaluate both.

 

[NorthwestDallas40]

I'm not either.. He's great.. At stuffing the run and eating up blocks.

I don't feel like I need to spend a 1st round pick to get someone who is quality at doing what he does.

Rod, is that you?

 

[CATCH17]

Rod, is that you?

Because I don’t think it’s the best idea to use your most premium draft pick on a run stuffer?