Dez lost his job after the Seattle game

[xwalker]

You have multiple pages you can refer back to - I don't know if you're acting obtuse on purpose or your pride is so rattled right now that you are TRYING to salvage any dignity you have left from the beating you have taken the past couple days.

My intentions, my stance on both Dak and Dez have been made clear more than once (more than you or the others deserve) - i do not go in circles, I do not repeat myself a thousand times to the point I have to draw you colorful pictures and hold your hand through simple argumentative points.

I'm guessing you are an adult with a decent level of education, you should be capable of following along in this debate.

Stop worrying about a WR in a league with a dime a dozen good/great. The player that will either make our team trend up or trend down is the same one who couldn't get the ball to any of our WRs last year....

If you want to debate the Dak and Dez issues, I'm up for it.

I don't need to get into the name-calling and arguing that you have going with the other poster but if you want to debate the issue(s) I'll participate.

 

[xwalker]

You have multiple pages you can refer back to - I don't know if you're acting obtuse on purpose or your pride is so rattled right now that you are TRYING to salvage any dignity you have left from the beating you have taken the past couple days.

My intentions, my stance on both Dak and Dez have been made clear more than once (more than you or the others deserve) - i do not go in circles, I do not repeat myself a thousand times to the point I have to draw you colorful pictures and hold your hand through simple argumentative points.

I'm guessing you are an adult with a decent level of education, you should be capable of following along in this debate.

Stop worrying about a WR in a league with a dime a dozen good/great. The player that will either make our team trend up or trend down is the same one who couldn't get the ball to any of our WRs last year....

I didn't look though all the pages of this thread but Dak was not bad last season and Dez was not good.

People like to judge based on their own emotions which for most people comes down to a few plays they remember specifically.

The statistics for Dak are definitely not bad. If you look at the stats in details they look even better.

Completion Percentage 2017

• 62.86% completion percentage.
• 68% completion percentage if all targets to Dez are removed.
• Brady's career average completion percentage is 63.9%.
• 67% completion percentage to Butler on passes over 20 yards.
• 21% completion percentage to Dez on passes over 20 yards.

TDs 2017

• 28 Total TDs (22 passing, 6 running)

Passes Over 20 yards 2017
Adjusted Completion Percentage on passes over 20 yards.

• Dak ranked #4 in 2017.

Adjusted Completion Percent definition:

• Accounts for dropped passes, throwaways and passes in which the quarterback was hit as he throws.

Prescott's passer rating
In games when pressured on ≥ 40% of drop-backs

• 2016: 67.6 (3 games)
• 2017: 66.1 (8 games)

In games when pressured on < 40% of drop-backs

• 2016: 109.6 (14 games)
• 2017: 112.9 (8 games)

-----
Below are 2016-17 passing stats when pressured in games in which the QB was pressured on less than 40% of his drop-backs. (min 100 att)


-----
Based on the stats below, the (claimed) mechanics/accuracy issues don't seem to affect the 606 career attempts in games when he's pressured less than 40% of the time.

Unless you expect Dak to be considerably better than Brady in these games, you have to conclude that mechanics/accuracy isn't an issue in these games.


-----
Prescott was Top 5 in % of passing yards that were air yards (yards before catch)
1 Winston 65.1%
2 Wentz 63.9%
3 Wilson 61.8%
4 Prescott 60.6%
5 Brady 59.6%

 

[mattjames2010]

I didn't look though all the pages of this thread but Dak was not bad last season and Dez was not good.

People like to judge based on their own emotions which for most people comes down to a few plays they remember specifically.

The statistics for Dak are definitely not bad. If you look at the stats in details they look even better.

Completion Percentage 2017

• 62.86% completion percentage.
• 68% completion percentage if all targets to Dez are removed.
• Brady's career average completion percentage is 63.9%.
• 67% completion percentage to Butler on passes over 20 yards.
• 21% completion percentage to Dez on passes over 20 yards.

TDs 2017

• 28 Total TDs (22 passing, 6 running)

Passes Over 20 yards 2017
Adjusted Completion Percentage on passes over 20 yards.

• Dak ranked #4 in 2017.

Adjusted Completion Percent definition:

• Accounts for dropped passes, throwaways and passes in which the quarterback was hit as he throws.

Prescott's passer rating
In games when pressured on ≥ 40% of drop-backs

• 2016: 67.6 (3 games)
• 2017: 66.1 (8 games)

In games when pressured on < 40% of drop-backs

• 2016: 109.6 (14 games)
• 2017: 112.9 (8 games)

-----
Below are 2016-17 passing stats when pressured in games in which the QB was pressured on less than 40% of his drop-backs. (min 100 att)


-----
Based on the stats below, the (claimed) mechanics/accuracy issues don't seem to affect the 606 career attempts in games when he's pressured less than 40% of the time.

Unless you expect Dak to be considerably better than Brady in these games, you have to conclude that mechanics/accuracy isn't an issue in these games.


-----
Prescott was Top 5 in % of passing yards that were air yards (yards before catch)
1 Winston 65.1%
2 Wentz 63.9%
3 Wilson 61.8%
4 Prescott 60.6%
5 Brady 59.6%

More stats

After the bye, he had 6 games without a passing TD. In 5 of those games, he had multiple interceptions. 5 of those games he had less than 6 yards an attempt. And just from your list than about "% of passing yards that were air yards" - great stat, until you see Winston is at the top. Everyone knows Winston had a bad season, so that stat obviously doesn't tell much.

What isn't arguable is that Dak had 11 TDs and 9 INTs after the bye week, only 4 games where he passed for over 200 yards.

This also doesn't take away some of his piss poor decision making down that stretch - right off the top of my head, lobbing the ball up in the air for grabs in Philly, doing the same against the Chargers, overthrowing Zeke on a simple dump off for a pick six in Seattle (important game)

He played bad, at best, he was incredibly inconsistent.

 

[Alexander]

He played bad, at best, he was incredibly inconsistent.

I don't think this is an inaccurate assessment of his second half of the 2017 season.

 

[mattjames2010]

Bad footwork



Poorly placed ball



One of the worst throws I've ever seen on the first pick six



2:08 lobs the ball down the field into double coverage, gets picked

 

[xwalker]

You have multiple pages you can refer back to - I don't know if you're acting obtuse on purpose or your pride is so rattled right now that you are TRYING to salvage any dignity you have left from the beating you have taken the past couple days.

My intentions, my stance on both Dak and Dez have been made clear more than once (more than you or the others deserve) - i do not go in circles, I do not repeat myself a thousand times to the point I have to draw you colorful pictures and hold your hand through simple argumentative points.

I'm guessing you are an adult with a decent level of education, you should be capable of following along in this debate.

Stop worrying about a WR in a league with a dime a dozen good/great. The player that will either make our team trend up or trend down is the same one who couldn't get the ball to any of our WRs last year....

Dez 2017

Catch Percentage

• Catch percentage 52% (Dak 68% to all other receivers)
• Catch-able Balls 72%

TDs

• 6 TDs (Career Low for any season he played 10 or more games)

Drops

• 2nd in worst in the NFL*
• *Through 14 games (The accurate drop stats require a subscription).
• That is 9 in 14 games (Dez had just 2 in 13 games for 2016 with the same QB).

 

[mattjames2010]

Dez 2017

Catch Percentage

• Catch percentage 52% (Dak 68% to all other receivers)
• Catch-able Balls 72%

TDs

• 6 TDs (Career Low for any season he played 10 or more games)

Drops

• 2nd in worst in the NFL*
• *Through 14 games (The accurate drop stats require a subscription).
• That is 9 in 14 games (Dez had just 2 in 13 games for 2016 with the same QB).

I never argued Dez had a good 2017. I argued Dez is not the only one who had a down year

You show Dez's low TD total and it being the lowest in his career. Okay, cool.

Terrance William had zero - first time in his career he didn't have a TD catch

Beasley went from averaging over 11 yards a catch the past 3 seasons and having 800 yards last year to 300 yards and 8 yards a catch average

Every single category, outside of TD receptions, was the lowest of Witten's career after his rookie season

All of our WRs had down years. It was across the board - Dez didn't play well, you can say bad, but no one else played at an acceptable level either.

 

[armadillooutlaw]

I never argued Dez had a good 2017. I argued Dez is not the only one who had a down year

You show Dez's low TD total and it being the lowest in his career. Okay, cool.

Terrance William had zero - first time in his career he didn't have a TD catch

Beasley went from averaging over 11 yards a catch the past 3 seasons and having 800 yards last year to 300 yards and 8 yards a catch average

Every single category, outside of TD receptions, was the lowest of Witten's career after his rookie season

All of our WRs had down years. It was across the board - Dez didn't play well, you can say bad, but no one else played at an acceptable level either.

The OL took some hits without Tyron the last 8 games and Dak handled it poorly - there were a decent number of opportunities to step up into the pocket and avoid the outside rush - keeping eyes downfield - but he would move backwards most often from what I saw - into the edge rushers on a few occasions. I guess you could say he had the yips. Didn't look for opportunities down field as much as he should have especially on 3rd downs. The recievers weren't open often enough as well.
Throw in the predictable play calling and it was a big ol' bag of suck.
Just for fun- go back and watch a game and watch when they had #85 Noah Brown in the game - it was pretty much either a run straight up the middle or a fake handoff short pass to Brown - and defenses saw it coming a mile away. Any attempt at creativity went out the window.

 

[mattjames2010]

The OL took some hits without Tyron the last 8 games and Dak handled it poorly - there were a decent number of opportunities to step up into the pocket and avoid the outside rush - keeping eyes downfield - but he would move backwards most often from what I saw - into the edge rushers on a few occasions. I guess you could say he had the yips. Didn't look for opportunities down field as much as he should have especially on 3rd downs. The recievers weren't open often enough as well.
Throw in the predictable play calling and it was a big ol' bag of suck.
Just for fun- go back and watch a game and watch when they had #85 Noah Brown in the game - it was pretty much either a run straight up the middle or a fake handoff short pass to Brown - and defenses saw it coming a mile away. Any attempt at creativity went out the window.

Insidethestar or Blogging the boys actually had some in-depth analysis about Prescott - it showed when he gets pressure early on in a game, he'll play like he's under pressure the rest of the game despite little to no pressure.

This is something I'm not sure you can ever fix in a QB, it's either you don't get rattled easily or you do. The biggest problem with this is, like in some of the videos I showed, Dak's mechanics are nowhere near where a NFL QB should be - it was his knock coming out of college and he has admitted that his footwork needs improved.

 

[xwalker]

More stats

After the bye, he had 6 games without a passing TD. In 5 of those games, he had multiple interceptions. 5 of those games he had less than 6 yards an attempt. And just from your list than about "% of passing yards that were air yards" - great stat, until you see Winston is at the top. Everyone knows Winston had a bad season, so that stat obviously doesn't tell much.

What isn't arguable is that Dak had 11 TDs and 9 INTs after the bye week, only 4 games where he passed for over 200 yards.

This also doesn't take away some of his piss poor decision making down that stretch - right off the top of my head, lobbing the ball up in the air for grabs in Philly, doing the same against the Chargers, overthrowing Zeke on a simple dump off for a pick six in Seattle (important game)

He played bad, at best, he was incredibly inconsistent.

The %air yards is not shown to indicate how good/bad he played. The stat is to offset claims that his completion percentage was good due to making a high percentage of short throws where the receiver then gained yards after the catch.

QBs are dependent on other players. I posted multiple different stats that show how Dak is good when other players do their job.

I'll post more on INTs later. There were multiple that were obviously caused by the WR (bounces off of TWill and Dez) and a few that were just desperation heaves when they were way down late. Considering there were just 13 total, the legit number that can be blamed on Dak is limited.

There were no INTs in Philly in 2017.

• Int 1: Hit Dez in the chest and bounced off.
• Int 2: The ball was short. In review you can see that Dak could not step into the throw due to a free pass rusher.
• Int 3: It was a desperation throw on 4th and 10, down 37-9 with 7 minutes remaining in the game.

The Cowboys scheme is not intended to rack up passing yards. They won 13 games in 2016 with and averaged 207 yards/game passing.

 

[mattjames2010]

The %air yards is not shown to indicate how good/bad he played. The stat is to offset claims that his completion percentage was good due to making a high percentage of short throws where the receiver then gained yards after the catch.

QBs are dependent on other players. I posted multiple different stats that show how Dak is good when other players do their job.

I'll post more on INTs later. There were multiple that were obviously caused by the WR (bounces off of TWill and Dez) and a few that were just desperation heaves when they were way down late. Considering there were just 13 total, the legit number that can be blamed on Dak is limited.

There were no INTs in Philly in 2017.

• Int 1: Hit Dez in the chest and bounced off.
• Int 2: The ball was short. In review you can see that Dak could not step into the throw due to a free pass rusher.
• Int 3: It was a desperation throw on 4th and 10, down 37-9 with 7 minutes remaining in the game.

The Cowboys scheme is not intended to rack up passing yards. They won 13 games in 2016 with and averaged 207 yards/game passing.

> When every player plays to perfection, then Prescott will play well

....sounds a bit like a game manager to me.

> There were multiple caused by the WR

And I'm sure this excuse can be made about any QB. This doesn't excuse some of his awful throws.

> There were no INTs in Philly in 2017

....who cares? He sucked in that game too. 1 TD pass, 56.7% completion, 179 yards passing and 6.0 yard average. This is with most of the big time starters for Philly playing a half.

> The Cowboys scheme is not intended to rack up passing yards

Dak Prescott had 200 yards passing or more in 9 games and 2 games with 300+ yards passing in 2016. The YPG took a hit when Prescott stunk it up against Minny and NYG throwing 139 yard and 165.

He had 3 games over 200 yards down the stretch after the bye. In a few of those games, he had 30 or 30+ passing attempts.

Here is a how Dak Prescott ranked by Football Outsiders

Prescott also struggled when he didn't face pressure - this is what I was talking about earlier, if he gets rattled early in a game, he continues to play like he's under pressure

Article to read more: https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2018/2/18/17023746/who-is-the-real-dak-prescott

 

[Captain-Crash]

told you Dak has the "glitch", shell shock, tunnel vision whatever you want to call it. When he get's pressure he loses vision of the field. You can't fix the glitch... ask Cern..

 

[xwalker]

Insidethestar or Blogging the boys actually had some in-depth analysis about Prescott - it showed when he gets pressure early on in a game, he'll play like he's under pressure the rest of the game despite little to no pressure.

This is something I'm not sure you can ever fix in a QB, it's either you don't get rattled easily or you do. The biggest problem with this is, like in some of the videos I showed, Dak's mechanics are nowhere near where a NFL QB should be - it was his knock coming out of college and he has admitted that his footwork needs improved.

The numbers I posted show:

• Dak excellent QB rating/stats games<40% pressure.
• Bad mechanics would make the above impossible

Game Study (Greater than 40% pressure games)

• His is not panicking.
• He intentionally changes his approach.
• He focuses on getting the ball out earlier.
• This coincides with good on under pressure snaps in <40% pressure games.

The excellent stats for under 40% pressure games show he has good-enough mechanics/ability.

The path forward is to improve in greater than 40% pressure games or get better protection.

Both the stats and game study point to an over-focus on getting the ball out earlier in the >40% pressure games.

That's as much a coaching issue as a player issue.

 

[mattjames2010]

The numbers I posted show:

• Dak excellent QB rating/stats games<40% pressure.
• Bad mechanics would make the above impossible

Game Study (Greater than 40% pressure games)

• His is not panicking.
• He intentionally changes his approach.
• He focuses on getting the ball out earlier.
• This coincides with good on under pressure snaps in <40% pressure games.

The excellent stats for under 40% pressure games show he has good-enough mechanics/ability.

The path forward is to improve in greater than 40% pressure games or get better protection.

Both the stats and game study point to an over-focus on getting the ball out earlier in the >40% pressure games.

That's as much a coaching issue as a player issue.

I have already provided you with an article/stats that goes into detail how poorly Dak plays while he gets pressure early on - he continues to play rattled throughout the game.

If you remove his ability to run and factor in his passing ability, Football Outsiders has him ranked with Mariota and Cam Newton.

 

[xwalker]

told you Dak has the "glitch", shell shock, tunnel vision whatever you want to call it. When he get's pressure he loses vision of the field. You can't fix the glitch... ask Cern..

No, stats show pressure on a snaps does not cause Dak to have a problem on that snap on average.

Stats shows that he changes his approach when there is greater than 40% pressure in a game.

Stats and game study indicate an over-focus on getting the ball out earlier and a higher likelihood to throw it away instead of waiting for an open receiver.

That's as much or more a coaching issue as a player issue.

 

[mattjames2010]

No, stats show pressure on a snaps does not cause Dak to have a problem on that snap on average.

Stats shows that he changes his approach when there is greater than 40% pressure in a game.

Stats and game study indicate an over-focus on getting the ball out earlier and a higher likelihood to throw it away instead of waiting for an open receiver.

That's as much or more a coaching issue as a player issue.

.....read the article. He makes poor decisions when he's rattled haha It goes into detail about this. Sheesh.

If you're not going to look at the counter evidence, and even how Football Outsiders ranks him, we are done here. That was disappointing - you should have just gone with name calling.

 

[xwalker]

I have already provided you with an article/stats that goes into detail how poorly Dak plays while he gets pressure early on - he continues to play rattled throughout the game.

If you remove his ability to run and factor in his passing ability, Football Outsiders has him ranked with Mariota and Cam Newton.

There is no need for complex formulas such as DYAR. It just obscures the truth. One of my degrees is in Mathematics. I likely have more knowledge of statistics than most football websites. They did NOT really show anything in that article.

It's a simple concept that he has good-enough mechanics and ability to be really good when pressure is NFL game average or less.

The stats on snaps when under pressure show that he does not panic due to pressure.

Everything points to a change in approach on the greater than 40% pressure games (NFL average is about 33%).

An intentional change in approach is highly likely related to coaching. Coaches harp on getting the ball our early. Parcells would stand behind QBs and count. He would blow the whistle if they passed his magic number. It was usually 1, 2, whistle.

Even with Zero changes from Dak, the Cowboys money and draft picks have been focused on the OLine. If NFL average is 33%, then staying under 40% is a reasonable expectation.

A debate means you need to add something yourself, not just try to point to a website link.