Dez meets Michael Jordan

[Miller]

He's back!

Thought you were done, O-T! Twice!

Who's under whose skin again?

The league's shrinking? They're still bigger than they were in the '80s, O-T! Looks like the average player's still about 7 lbs heavier than they were back then. And that doesn't even take into account the athleticism.

But your distraction attempts and excuse-making are still hilarious, O-T. Welcome back again!No physical play!!!!! No I didn't, because that's a mind-numbingly stupid conclusion to jump to. The game is different, but that doesn't mean it's "worse" or that players are stupid now.

Your midlife crisis is really pathetic. The '80s are over and there's a slew of great players and great teams in the league nowadays.

LeBron would eat people up in the '80s just like he does nowadays. Want a more physical game? Bring it on. If you want to get physical with LeBron, he's got Karl Malone's build to get physical right back with you.

In a league where the average player is smaller and less athletic than they are now.

Only in your sad little existence is 6'6" 215 lbs better able to deal with physical play than 6'8" 260 lbs.

Try and guard someone who's built like Karl Malone but 10x more versatile, Mike! You can hand-check him... but he can hand-check you too.

You are now officially the worst poster I have ever met. Hands down, I'm not sure how you even get through a day. I'm convinced you're a troll and that is it. Not one thing you've said here contradicts proof that is shown in NBA articles and by multiple players playing now and in the past...HOF players and players that are at the top of their game now. My "mind numbingly stupid conclusions" are ones that players from today and yesterday ALL agree on. READ! ALL of them said the same thing about hand checking. ALL of them said the same thing about the physical game. Yet somehow you know more than them? How ignorant does that make you? Since when did 7 lbs make people more athletic and who is judging athleticism? You are exactly what is wrong with people today...lazy and you probably do nothing in life but post emoticons thinking they make you smart. You are so far out of your league here and its embarrassing. All your Zone Defense BS proven wrong by the stats and you gloss over it...just like Pippen and everything else. You've been made a fool. Take your complex and run away. It is becoming embarrassing. If LeBron wanted more physical why did he cry to the refs when the Bulls and others were physical? Again, size doesn't make one physical or better. Seriously, do you know how to read and tie your shoes? EVERY point was schooled above and you claim these players and legends know nothing. Plain and simple, you need to go see someone about your inferiority complex.

Pretty telling that you can't simply stick to Player A's basketball repertoire vs Player B's basketball repertoire. It's because you know Mike simply can't match up in the basketball department.

.

Because you can't even keep up with all the stats provided above. Basketball isn't A v B because people play different positions. Saying Jason Kidd has more assists than Jordan is easy. Same with Shaq having more rebounds. It is their job. A shooting guard's job isn't rebounds yet Jordan still averaged more rebounds in some year in the prime of his career than your glorious forward BUT his average for his career...even when playing late..still is only 1 below this super athletic forwards. How do you not get this, unless you know nothing about basketball? You also have to take into account their roles on the team, when they played etc. It is why all the quotes I put on the previous play, all of the stats about style of play, etc make the argument for Jordan in a majority of NBA experts minds. The fact that you can't rationally see this is why you'll never get basketball. IQ.

 

[Miller]

BTW, my post on the previous page was to educate on what has happened regarding defenses over the years. The fact that Nam couldn't follow the logic and the words of NBA players isn't my fault. It is about knowing something regarding the NBA. If a person somehow is too lost in their own world to read it than that isn't my fault since all of it is fact and stats and opinions of players from all eras and shown through who was quoted.

 

[Nav22]

None of your quotes or history lessons will change the fact that LeBron's the better, more versatile player between the two.

I gloss over your idiotic posts because they're irrelevant. But I loved how you're still dumb enough to claim that everything you linked was "fact" when you ripped off much of it from a message board.

Jim Boeheim coached them both in the Olympics. They were both in their primes. Boeheim forgot more about basketball today than either of us will ever know.

And he picked LeBron.

Basketball isn't A v B because people play different positions.

More weak excuse-making.

LeBron can play Jordan's position and guard anyone Jordan could guard. But you can't say the same for MJ.

Get it now? One of them is bigger, stronger, and more versatile.

Saying Jason Kidd has more assists than Jordan is easy. Same with Shaq having more rebounds. It is their job.

LeBron's job description: pass better than MJ could, rebound better than MJ could, shoot a higher % than MJ could, and defend more positions than MJ could.

So let's just disregard all of those things because, after all, LeBron's only doing his job!

Jason Kidd's a better passer than MJ... but MJ was better at virtually everything else. Scoring, rebounding, defense.

That's because Mike was better than Jason Kidd.

If Player A is better than Player B at most important basketball attributes, then that generally means Player A is the better player.

What a novel concept!

Shaq was the better rebounder... but MJ kills him in any category related to guard play because they were obviously very different players. Passing, shooting, defending the backcourt.

LeBron's better than MJ at passing AND rebounding while guarding more positions and currently shooting a much higher FG% than Mike could ever dream.

But by all means, keep dancing around that inconvenient piece of reality.

 

[Miller]

None of your quotes or history lessons will change the fact that LeBron's the better, more versatile player between the two.

I gloss over your idiotic posts because they're irrelevant.

Jim Boeheim coached them both in the Olympics. They were both in their primes. Boeheim forgot more about basketball today than either of us will ever know.

And he picked LeBron.More weak excuse-making.

LeBron can play Jordan's position and guard anyone Jordan could guard. But you can't say the same for MJ.

Get it now? One of them is bigger, stronger, and more versatile.LeBron's job description: pass better than MJ could, rebound better than MJ could, shoot a higher % than MJ could, and defend more positions than MJ could.

So let's just disregard all of those things because, after all, LeBron's only doing his job!

Jason Kidd's a better passer than MJ... but MJ was better at virtually everything else. Scoring, rebounding, defense.

That's because Mike was better than Jason Kidd.

If Player A is better than Player B at most important basketball attributes, then that generally means Player A is the better player.

What a novel concept!

Shaq was the better rebounder... but MJ kills him in any category related to guard play because they were obviously very different players. Passing, shooting, defending the backcourt.

LeBron's better than MJ at passing AND rebounding while guarding more positions and currently shooting a much higher FG% than Mike could ever dream.

But by all means, keep dancing around that inconvenient piece of reality.

Your bolded is what makes you so ignorant. You're 27 going on 12. Seriously, do you hold a job?

"Than Mike could ever dream of"--Through the same number of games after last years season, Jordan had a higher percentage easily

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/sto...eat-chicago-bulls-comparison-stats-records-ch

Field goal percentage: 51.4 to James’ 48.3

LeBron having a high percentage for part of this season doesn't make him better. Your stats are lies. How are you so lost not to know that. Your claims are false. Jordan is also the better scoring big games in the playoffs through this time

Scoring: 34.6 points per game to James’ 28.5

The fact that you are waving off the opinion of some of the most respected players in history and saying Jim Boeheim means more is laughable. It's embarrassing for you. The worst part is that Jordan played until he was 40 and between 32 and 40...outside his prime..he was still as good as LeBron. We don't even know what LeBron's numbers will dip to when he is in his twilight. You are making up BS and look foolish son. Please move along.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/404315-jordan-age-32-to-40

From age 32 to 40 Jordan played in 473 games. He scored 12,888 pts for an average of 27.2 points per game and won three NBA titles with three Finals MVPs, two regular season MVPs, and three scoring titles in only five full seasons. At an old age, Jordan shot 46.3% from the field.

BTW, your Boeheim quotes are also false...since he is your go to expert

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/sto...ho-is-better-jim-boeheim-olympics-john-salley

“I always felt Michael Jordan was the best player I’ve ever seen. I always have, and I didn’t think it was close — and I’m not so sure anymore, and I love Michael Jordan. ... And (James is) getting better ... He’s like Magic Johnson with Michael Jordan-type skills as well.”

He didn't say he was better than Jordan. He said he wasn't sure. He didn't coach Jordan either, just James. Please learn something in this process. You are getting embarrassed,.

 

[Nav22]

I stand corrected on Boeheim coaching MJ, but the rest of your post was a joke.

I love how you only bring up scoring. As if LeBron's superiority in passing and rebounding doesn't matter.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: LeBron of 2013 is better than Mike ever was. That means he's currently better than Mike ever was.

I never once said his career is better than MJ's. He's only 28!

56.8% from the field to go along with better passing, better rebounding, and more versatile ability on D.

Better across the board means better overall. Only a nostalgic, out-of-touch, biased clown stuck in the '80s can't see that.

 

[Miller]

I stand corrected on Boeheim coaching MJ, but the rest of your post was a joke.

I love how you only bring up scoring. As if LeBron's superiority in passing and rebounding doesn't matter.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: LeBron of 2013 is better than Mike ever was. That means he's currently better than Mike ever was.

I never once said his career is better than MJ's. He's only 28!

56.8% from the field to go along with better passing, better rebounding, and more versatile ability on D.

Better across the board means better overall. Only a nostalgic, out-of-touch, biased clown stuck in the '80s can't see that.

The bolded is why you look so pathetic little one. By calling me that you are saying that Wade and basically every HOF player mentioned the last 2 pages knows nothing about basketball. You are completely clueless about the sport. All of your myths have been exposed. 2 posts back you were screaming about shooting percentages and you were embarrassed again. The Pippen myth, the Boeheim myth, the percentage myth, the scoring myth, the defense being better myth, the players being longer and better myth....everything you have said has been exposed. Pathetic. Not only that but you ignore that Jordan has better numbers on blocks(smaller guy) and steals and has less turnovers...all which makes a better defender and helps a team give up less points. He also shoots better FT percentages. So saying he barely rebounds better and has assists are your ONLY 2 things. Your talking about a season that is half way done. Oscar Robinson averaged a triple double one year. One of the greatest seasons in history. Did that make him the greatest ever? No, but he was close. Half an unfinished season for a guy whose own peers and teammates don't think is close to Jordan yet is nothing. You are illiterate to the game of basketball. You try and pick and chose stats and in the end you are wrong and basically have minimal things to go with. You have completely embarrassed yourself in this thread and keep ignoring what REAL NBA players from now...not old timers...and all the decades have said. So please stop because you know nothing about the sport. I sure hope you aren't like this about the Cowboys because it would embarrass the organization. Go get an education.

 

[Nav22]

By calling me that you are saying that Wade and basically every HOF player mentioned the last 2 pages knows nothing about basketball.

Um, nice logic.

I said LeBron of 2013 is better than MJ ever was.

So unless the quotes you provided compare LeBron of 2013 to Michael Jordan, you're full of crap.

2 posts back you were screaming about shooting percentages and you were embarrassed again.

Yes, I was embarrassed. For you. And I still am.

56.8% craps on anything Mike's ever done, and LeBron's doing it from the paint AND from the perimeter.

The Pippen myth, the Boeheim myth,

Wrong, O-T.

Pippen and Boeheim both picked LBJ over Mike. Pippen stating an opinion then retracting it only after the public outrage doesn't change the fact that he still stated that opinion.

Boeheim saying "Now I'm not so sure" then following it with the qualifier of "and I love Michael Jordan" and THEN praising the parts of LeBron's game that trumps MJ strongly implies that he's siding with LeBron.

Keep your old, wrinkly head in the sand, though.

Not only that but you ignore that Jordan has better numbers on blocks(smaller guy) and steals and has less turnovers...all which makes a better defender

Only a clown who's never played the game thinks that steals and blocks are the way to judge a defender. LeBron's opponents shoot around 30% from the field, and he's guarding positions 1 through 4.

Monta Ellis is usually among the league leaders in steals, and he's one of the worst defenders in the league.

Your talking about a season that is half way done.

It's "you're".

Old, out-of-touch, obsolete... and evidently, uneducated as well.

Half an unfinished season for a guy whose own peers and teammates don't think is close to Jordan yet is nothing.

You keep bringing up the current opinions of MJ vs LeBron as if that proves anything.

MJ's one of the most famous athletes in the history of sports, LeBron's a 28 year-old with half a career still ahead of him!

How do you think MJ's "peers and teammates" would have ranked him back in 1991 at age 28? As the greatest current player in the history of the game?

Terrible argument, but from someone as dense and uneducated as you are, it's not a surprising one.

Go get an education.

," said the 43 year-old who never learned the difference between "your" and "you're".

 

[zrinkill]

LeBron of 2013 is better than Mike ever was.

Bull ....... complete Hogwash.

 

[Lonestar94]

Look at that smile on Michael's face. That's priceless. Not too many people get to have their photo taken with Dez Bryant.

 

[Nav22]

Look at that smile on Michael's face. That's priceless. Not too many people get to have their photo taken with Dez Bryant.

:laugh2:

 

[Miller]

Um, nice logic.

I said LeBron of 2013 is better than MJ ever was.

So unless the quotes you provided compare LeBron of 2013 to Michael Jordan, you're full of crap.
Yes, I was embarrassed. For you. And I still am.

56.8% craps on anything Mike's ever done, and LeBron's doing it from the paint AND from the perimeter.
Wrong, O-T.

Pippen and Boeheim both picked LBJ over Mike. Pippen stating an opinion then retracting it only after the public outrage doesn't change the fact that he still stated that opinion.

Boeheim saying "Now I'm not so sure" then following it with the qualifier of "and I love Michael Jordan" and THEN praising the parts of LeBron's game that trumps MJ strongly implies that he's siding with LeBron.

Keep your old, wrinkly head in the sand, though.
Only a clown who's never played the game thinks that steals and blocks are the way to judge a defender. LeBron's opponents shoot around 30% from the field, and he's guarding positions 1 through 4.

Monta Ellis is usually among the league leaders in steals, and he's one of the worst defenders in the league. It's "you're".

Old, out-of-touch, obsolete... and evidently, uneducated as well. You keep bringing up the current opinions of MJ vs LeBron as if that proves anything.

MJ's one of the most famous athletes in the history of sports, LeBron's a 28 year-old with half a career still ahead of him!

How do you think MJ's "peers and teammates" would have ranked him back in 1991 at age 28? As the greatest current player in the history of the game?

Terrible argument, but from someone as dense and uneducated as you are, it's not a surprising one.

," said the 43 year-old who never learned the difference between "your" and "you're".

So now your argument is so weak that you turned to the grammar card. Pathetic. I'm an attorney. Spelling isn't something I'm supposed to do well. . The whole argument is who is the greatest ever. EVER includes all relevant data. Your data is on half a season that isn't over and a career that we have no clue about. Your arguments don't get you there and have been shown to be wrong by the stats and the players who play the game...with him and now. Again, 99.9% of the people here...you being the exception...would err on the side of the people who play the game, know the game and who play still. They have talked about the eras, the rules, how Jordan would light it up now, etc. That is the debate. Not one half season where you are making out with your LeBron fathead every night. You just made my point. Magic said that when Jordan came in he told him to watch out. People already were talking about how special he was. So YES, they did think he was the best they had seen. These same people still aren't saying that about LeBron. You made my point!!I did play basketball. I know basketball. Steals and blocks and turnovers are just as important as assists. They save points and take possessions away from the other team. You cherry picking stats...only 2 that count...is weak since Jordan's stats are static and are already set. You can't take LeBron's now fluctuated stats and say there better when Jordan had a far superior number in the same time period. The articles and stats I posted show this. That is basic to anyone who is educated and with a brain. You also made everyone's point about how many points LeBron gets in the paint...a majority. Showing that the zone and other defenses are weak at best. Just like the stats I put up the previous page...I'm sure you didn't read any of it because it makes all your arguments look silly. You lose. End of argument. Case dismissed. If you want to keep showing your tail and embarrassing yourself, feel free. I'm tiring of trying to debate with pure ignorance. Debating is only fun with a worthy foe and you're like a 6 year old who just learned to draw laughing faces.

 

[Nav22]

So now your argument is so weak that you turned to the grammar card.

Pretty hard not to point out the irony when I'm being told to get an education from someone whose spelling/grammar resembles a 9 year-old's.

The whole argument is who is the greatest ever. EVER includes all relevant data.

That doesn't mean you can't take a look at what someone is CURRENTLY doing and opine that he's doing it better than anyone else ever has.

If a 90 year-old man sinks 20,000 free throws in a row, you could easily make the case that he's the best free throw shooter of all-time. You don't have to consider how well he shot them when he was in his 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, etc. before making that claim.

Your data is on half a season that isn't over and a career that we have no clue about.

The regular season is 2/3 done and there's no good reason to believe his numbers will decline sharply over the last ~27 games of the season. Get real.

I already said I'm not comparing CAREERS. The 90 year-old man may have sucked as a FT shooter until he turned 85. That doesn't mean he can never be called the greatest.

Magic said that when Jordan came in he told him to watch out. People already were talking about how special he was. So YES, they did think he was the best they had seen.

Oh, sort of like how people are constantly talking about how special LeBron is nowadays, huh? :laugh2:

People "talking about how special he was" does NOT equal "they thought he was the best they had seen". Nice try. They've been talking about how special LeBron is since he was 16.

You dismiss the opinions that say LeBron's the GOAT because your claim is that TODAY the strong majority would call MJ the GOAT. Which is true.

So find proof from 1991 that suggested that the MAJORITY of people thought MJ was the GOAT back then.

I'm not buying it. He only had 1 ring and was nowhere close to having the legacy of guys like Kareem, Bird, or Magic.

A few may have called him that, but not the majority. Just like a few are already saying that about LeBron, but not the majority.

These same people still aren't saying that about LeBron.

What same people? The ones you cherry-picked for your argument?:laugh2:

I've already shown you opinions from extremely credible sources who have called LeBron the best of all-time. But they don't count, right?

Steals and blocks and turnovers are just as important as assists. They save points and take possessions away from the other team.

You're missing the point.

If I go for steals all game long, I may come up with 5. Great number for a single game.

And if I leave my feet all game to go for blocks, I may swat 5 shots. Great number.

But those stats don't tell you how many times I left my D vulnerable and surrendered easy buckets because I was going for the sexy play.

There are MUCH better measures of defensive ability than steals/blocks, which essentially tell you nothing by themselves. Opposing FG% and +/-, for example.

Either way, none of this takes into account the main crux of the situation. They're both All-NBA defenders, but LeBron can guard FOUR positions at that level... Mike couldn't.

Blame it on size/strength. Or the rules. Or anything else you want. Doesn't matter.

That's part of the LeBron package and that level of versatility is a HUGE advantage he owns over Mike, whether you like it or not.

You also made everyone's point about how many points LeBron gets in the paint...a majority.

More weak excuse-making.:laugh2:

I already posted a link breaking down LeBron's jumper. It's developed into one of the very best jumpers in the game today and he scores a ton of points outside the paint in a variety of ways.

Debating is only fun with a worthy foe and you're like a 6 year old who just learned to draw laughing faces.

Hey, the uneducated old man learned something after all!

 

[Miller]

The only thing I've learned from Nav in regards to this debate after I put out probably a dozen articles, 2-3 dozen quotes from top people, etc:

a) he likes to parse other peoples posts excessively and then respond with babbling that has no basis, facts or merit

b) can't read

c) likes circular arguments that go nowhere and when factual data with backing from a massive majority is shown, will ignore and keep circling
d) :laugh2:are 50% of what he posts and what he probably learned in remedial computer this week

e) buttons are easily pushed so if you call him "uneducated" enough he will then use the same term to describe you in a "nanny, nanny, boo, boo" child like way. It means you've hit a real sore spot.
e) there is a guarantee response to this post using the terms "old man"; "wrinkle"; "uneducated"; 50 of these ; and a host of other cutdowns, including ones I've used already will ensue

Carry on, fun times

Dez is a smart man

 

[Nav22]

Oh, you're "leaving" again? Let's see if you're an (old) man of your word this time, or if you'll get your knickers in a bunch again and come back.

 

[ghst187]

I said LeBron of 2013 is better than MJ ever was.

totally agree with this. Lebron is as a complete player as there has ever been and better at everything than just about everyone who's played the game. I'm certainly no fan of either MJ or Lebron but the only player I've ever seen that could dominate and score at will at every position 1-5 was Magic Johnson and he's was no where near what Lebron is physically and athletically.
Lebron may only, ONLY, have 30 points per game but he's cranking out close to 10 assists and close to 10 rebounds per game. MJ may have been an unstoppable scorer during his generation (largely post Bird, Magic) at the 2 and 3 positions, Lebron is doing it currently against bigger, better talent at the 1-4 positions as a matter of routine. He's bigger, stronger, way more versatile, and easily as skilled as MJ ever was. If Lebron set out to score 50 per game because he didn't have DW or Bosh I have no doubts he could do it consistently. And Lebron isn't getting away with murder night after night so Stern's stock options can go up. Also, as crazy as it sounds with "the decision" and all, I get the sense that Lebron isn't half the punk jerk MJ is/was. Maybe not relevant to the discussion but worth mentioning.