Did Henderson help Zeke?

[LocimusPrime]

Legally, it doesn't matter what your expectations are. Legally, it only matters what you agree to. What they agreed to was not a jury of their peers so that really isn't even valid. I don't understand why you don't understand. What am I missing?

Nothing..you're on point. The system sucks for the players, but they agreed to it. They signed the deal

 

[ghst187]

Million dollar business idea: "FREE ZEKE" t-shirts.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They apply to ALL collective bargaining issues. It's the foundation upon which collective bargaining was founded. Do some research.

Yeah, I have. That's why I am asking you to show me why you think this.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You may be right about the long term profitability. My concern is that, by their actions, they've poisoned the well and the players will make league discipline a major point of contention moving forward. As many have stated elsewhere, the league should stay clear of legal/political matters and stick to its core business: entertainment.

I agree but that's not going to happen. To many focus groups out there that have the ear of owner IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think you are missing the fact that there are labor laws that govern all CBAs and those labor laws speak to things like fair process. No matter what is in a CBA, those making rulings under them cannot violate the labor laws that govern CBAs. Yes, Goodell was given a crapload of power and may eventually prevail but there are plenty of issues with what the NFL has done here that could give a judge the room to rule in Zeke's favor. Its an uphill battle for sure but the judge gave some clear indications that he has serious problems with the NFL in this case. He said it was different from the Brady case, said they withheld evidence, said it was unfair not to be able to question the accuser, and said he could not ignore procedural problems with the NFLs investigation.

Labor Laws, in the classic sense, do no apply to the NFL. That's just a fact so you would have to be specific in which labor laws you are referring to.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

I agree but that's not going to happen. To many focus groups out there that have the ear of owner IMO.

The fear of sponsors pulling out is what is really driving this madness. So in part focus groups, but only if they can sway sponsors.

 

[CWR]

I guess I just have a really difficult time understanding the bitterness towards the NFL. I mean, the process is one sided to be sure. However, the players knew all of this when they voted for the new CBA. The NFLPA allowed them to do this so it's really the fault of the players and the NFLPA IMO. I remember discussing this when the CBA was signed. Now the NFL is the problem and the Commissioner is the problem. Well, this is the deal they signed up for. How do you fault the NFL for using the power the players voted to give them and the power they, basically, bought and paid for? If it were me, I would take advantage of every benefit any given contract provided for me. I think that most people would. sucks for the players but honestly, they were just interested in the money.

I don't understand why fans don't have more outrage over the Players or the NFLPA.

If you don't understand by now, I dont think you ever will. What I mean is we simply wont see eye to eye on this. The NFL negotiated themselves into a position of power. However, its not an absolute power. The NFL does not have the right to single out a player above all others and disregard procedure in order to get the wanted results. There is still a process in place and we as fans should absolutely be outraged about the short cuts and ommissions the NFL took within this process.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If you don't understand by now, I dont think you ever will. What I mean is we simply wont see eye to eye on this. The NFL negotiated themselves into a position of power. However, its not an absolute power. The NFL does not have the right to single out a player above all others and disregard procedure in order to get the wanted results. There is still a process in place and we as fans should absolutely be outraged about the short cuts and ommissions the NFL took within this process.

Perhaps. On the other hand, perhaps it is not I who does not understand. I've said, many times over, that the only hope the players and players union have is if they find fault with the way the NFL handled the actual process. To this point, that has not been proven.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

Perhaps. On the other hand, perhaps it is not I who does not understand. I've said, many times over, that the only hope the players and players union have is if they find fault with the way the NFL handled the actual process. To this point, that has not been proven.

Well the lead investigator did recommend no suspension, based on the lack of credibility of the accuser. I'm not exactly sure how a court of law would view the disregarding of her recommendation.

 

[Direwolf63]

All of this may, or may not be true but, again, the language that was agreed to clearly gave the Commissioner that power. Either the Players or the NFLPA should have know this. I don't understand how anybody comes to the conclusion that the "Expectation" would not be that the NFL would use every bit of power they were granted. When has that ever been the case, that somebody doesn't use the power they were given?

As to stopping this now, well, a little late. This should have been stopped long ago. Our fan base should have reacted this way, on behalf of Hardy or some other team's player but we didn't. It's too late for stopping anything now, IMO. That ship has sailed, gone round the world and has come safely back home to port. I just don't think anybody is really very big on overturning this thing. I think most football fans like it.

I don't think the issue is the league using their power.

The issue is the process having a lack of fundamental fairness, which would be an abuse of that power.

The players gave up a lot in the last CBA. But they did not give up their constitutional rights.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well the lead investigator did recommend no suspension, based on the lack of credibility of the accuser. I'm not exactly sure how a court of law would view the disregarding of her recommendation.

I don't know if they would but, the NFL can and probably will make the argument that there were at least 4 other sources of investigation.

https://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/...owboys-rb-ezekiel-elliott-assault-allegations

 

[CWR]

They did not know that the Commissioner was going to go so far against the players like he has. Who would have ever thought that the league would become so openly hostile to its star players and for what reason? To appease the far left activist whackos they are surrounded by in NY? No one could see how unfair of a discipline process Goodell would enact and he has done it all because of the heat he took over botching the ray rice case.

Its kind of like when my union (or association) tried to negotiate our contract with the city. They agreed on a contract to take to the members to vote on but each time the city was done they found ways to change the wording, like "if" to "and," these suddle changes affected the meaning of the contract. In total we sent back contracts seven times because the city kept trying to sneak im advantages.

Even after the contract has been approved there will always be areas open for interpretation and resulting conflict.

In no way did the players union ever expect Goodell to begin keying in on certain players and ommiting parts of his own procedures. You cant anticipate that, and you cant anticipate everything. So what, your now supposed to roll over and accept it because you signed a contract? Absolutely not, they didnt sign up for this and are right to fight it.

 

[CWR]

Perhaps. On the other hand, perhaps it is not I who does not understand. I've said, many times over, that the only hope the players and players union have is if they find fault with the way the NFL handled the actual process. To this point, that has not been proven.

Its about to be. The fact it has to be is the reason we are upset with the NFL. Im sure you're aware of that though, and simply trying to make a point.

 

[superonyx]

How did they not know? I mean, when it was discussed on this board, we knew that the agreement basically gave the Commissioner virtually unlimited power, in terms of judgements etc. I find it very difficult to believe that the players didn't know this. But, for the sake of discussion, lets say that they didn't know. Isn't that the fault of the NFLPA? I mean, that's the only reason the NFLPA is there, to explain what legalities mean for the players and to advise and protect them from poor decisions. Either way, I see no way you can fault the NFL here. They paid dearly for this power.

Sounds like a little victim blaming.
Should be blame Zeke and players who didn't even sign anything and may have been in middle and high school when this was done? Should we blame the people who are abusing the trust and power they were given or should we blame the victims for trusting the power wouldn't be abused?

I know which way I am leaning.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

Sounds like a little victim blaming.
Should be blame Zeke and players who didn't even sign anything and may have been in middle and high school when this was done? Should we blame the people who are abusing the trust and power they were given or should we blame the victims for trusting the power wouldn't be abused?

I know which way I am leaning.

But they did sign a contract when they came into the NFL that agreed to the terms of the CBA.

 

[superonyx]

But they did sign a contract when they came into the NFL that agreed to the terms of the CBA.

Did they have a choice?

 

[CWR]

But they did sign a contract when they came into the NFL that agreed to the terms of the CBA.

Honest question, what was their other option?

 

[Seven]

I guess I just have a really difficult time understanding the bitterness towards the NFL. I mean, the process is one sided to be sure. However, the players knew all of this when they voted for the new CBA. The NFLPA allowed them to do this so it's really the fault of the players and the NFLPA IMO. I remember discussing this when the CBA was signed. Now the NFL is the problem and the Commissioner is the problem. Well, this is the deal they signed up for. How do you fault the NFL for using the power the players voted to give them and the power they, basically, bought and paid for? If it were me, I would take advantage of every benefit any given contract provided for me. I think that most people would. sucks for the players but honestly, they were just interested in the money.

I don't understand why fans don't have more outrage over the Players or the NFLPA.

This is all assuming they were going to be FAIR and JUST in the "legal" actions.

Who woulda thought they'd throw their weight around like a mafia Godfather?

No one expected the level of unfairness they have displayed. No one.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Henderson said that his job was not to second-guess the league/Commissioner's decision(s).

Yet, by reducing suspensions in other cases, that's exactly what he's done.

Specifically speaking, Henderson reduced Greg Hardy's suspension from 10-games to 4-games.

"I find that the conduct of Hardy clearly violates the letter and spirit of any version of the (personal conduct policy) since its inception, and of the NFL Constitution and Bylaws long before then. The egregious conduct exhibited here is indefensible in the NFL. However, ten games is simply too much, in my view, of an increase over prior cases without notice such as was done last year, when the 'baseline' for discipline in domestic violence or sexual assault cases was announced as a six-game suspension."

If the baseline for DV was 6-games, then why was Hardy's suspension reduced to 4-games? Why not reduce the suspension to 4-games (or fewer) in the Elliott case?

Domestic Violence seems like an absolute: either it happened or it didn't. I don't see how you mitigate a suspension for DV. It's not like there's lesser forms of DV...it's all DV.

If they're going to suspend for DV fine, but it seems a stretch to defer to "personal conduct code" to give a lesser punishment for some DV and not others.

Again, the inconsistancy of punishments by the league is a problem in itself.

He's the same as the rest of them. He makes it up as they go along.

 

[Direwolf63]

You may be right about the long term profitability. My concern is that, by their actions, they've poisoned the well and the players will make league discipline a major point of contention moving forward. As many have stated elsewhere, the league should stay clear of legal/political matters and stick to its core business: entertainment.

League discipline will also be an issue raised by some owners, starting with Jerry and Robert Kraft. In many ways, these owners will side with the players on these particular issues.

It will be an interesting negotiation.