Did Henderson help Zeke?

[superonyx]

Perhaps. On the other hand, perhaps it is not I who does not understand. I've said, many times over, that the only hope the players and players union have is if they find fault with the way the NFL handled the actual process. To this point, that has not been proven.

I disagree.. I believe Zeke's team can prove that the league purposely chose to ignore evidence that would have led to him not being suspended. This would make a judge overturn the decision. It won't be easy. But I believe they have a shot of showing the league didn't act in an honest way which violates the nature of the CBA.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

Honest question, what was there other option?

Be that as it may, they still signed and agreed to the terms of the CBA. I'm on board with you in that they didn't really have any other choice.

 

[Direwolf63]

None of that has been proven, as yet. I think the courts will have the final say on this but I'll just say that I don't think Zeke or the Players or the NFLPA is going to win this one.

I guess we'll see what happens.

For the record, I think you are right.

There is enough there for the TRO, which will probably allow Zeke to play this year. But at the end of the day, Zeke will have to sit out those 6 games. Like it or not.

 

[BlindFaith]

None of that has been proven, as yet. I think the courts will have the final say on this but I'll just say that I don't think Zeke or the Players or the NFLPA is going to win this one.

I guess we'll see what happens.

Do you think he did it? And if so, what additional proof do you, or the NFL for that matter, have that the police and prosecutors office didn't have? Are you, or the NFL for that matter, more qualified to pass judgement than those official departments? The legal system has confirmed Zeke to be innocent.

If I'm TT I am immediately suing Zeke in a civil case. Stating that since the NFL has levied a suspension he must be guilty. She could certainly subpoena the league office, investigators etc to her defense since they are the experts in the matter. Do you support that?

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

Do you think he did it? And if so, what additional proof do you, or the NFL for that matter, have that the police and prosecutors office didn't have? Are you, or the NFL for that matter, more qualified to pass judgement than those official departments? The legal system has confirmed Zeke to be innocent.

If I'm TT I am immediately suing Zeke in a civil case. Stating that since the NFL has levied a suspension he must be guilty. She could certainly subpoena the league office, investigators etc to her defense since they are the experts in the matter. Do you support that?

TBH the sad part of this whole ordeal is it isn't about whether he did or didn't do it anymore.

 

[CWR]

None of that has been proven, as yet. I think the courts will have the final say on this but I'll just say that I don't think Zeke or the Players or the NFLPA is going to win this one.

I guess we'll see what happens.

To be fair, youre probably right. In my diluted mind I think enough evidence will be brought forward to prove the process was flawed and at the same time I completely expect us to be without Zeke for 6 games next season. Just because its right doesnt make it so.

 

[CWR]

TBH the sad part of this whole ordeal is it isn't about whether he did or didn't do it anymore.

True! Not many decent people would support him if he was guilty and we knew it. We can only look at the facts. We will never know what actually happened. But we do have concrete information to see she intended on these circumstances.

 

[cowboy_ron]

upholding an undeserving suspension is helping him? Then please Harold, don't help us anymore.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Its about to be. The fact it has to be is the reason we are upset with the NFL. Im sure you're aware of that though, and simply trying to make a point.

That's a stretch, IMO. I've heard that it will be dismissed. I've heard that it will be no more then two games. I've heard it will be overturned. None of that has happened. I do not accept that this is a foregone conclusion. It might be overturned but I am not so sure.

 

[BlindFaith]

If you don't understand by now, I dont think you ever will. What I mean is we simply wont see eye to eye on this. The NFL negotiated themselves into a position of power. However, its not an absolute power. The NFL does not have the right to single out a player above all others and disregard procedure in order to get the wanted results. There is still a process in place and we as fans should absolutely be outraged about the short cuts and ommissions the NFL took within this process.

The real kicker here is - If the NFL would have followed process to the letter and included everything, they still could have handed down the suspension. And it would have been much harder to appeal. It really shows the arrogance and pure stupidity on their part that they even tried to cover up, prevent and hide key statements. That alone has left them open to having the ruling over turned.

But what if they had followed every procedural step and were completely transparent? What recourse would of he had then? Imagine being completely innocent and still being suspended? How is that remotely fair? And how do we prevent that from happening in the future? That's what needs to be addressed.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sounds like a little victim blaming.
Should be blame Zeke and players who didn't even sign anything and may have been in middle and high school when this was done? Should we blame the people who are abusing the trust and power they were given or should we blame the victims for trusting the power wouldn't be abused?

I know which way I am leaning.

This post or what I've said? Cause I'll tell you know, I'm voting for this post. As to Zeke and players like him, you are wrong. They all signed something. They signed a personal contract to play in the NFL. They didn't have to but they did so they absolutely signed on to the rules. The truth is you can blame anybody you want. Your going to anyway but your use of the term "Victims" is a bit lose IMO. There are no victims here. Everybody involved is guilty to an extent and that's the truth of it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This is all assuming they were going to be FAIR and JUST in the "legal" actions.

Who woulda thought they'd throw their weight around like a mafia Godfather?

No one expected the level of unfairness they have displayed. No one.

This isn't true at all. In fact, I, along with others told everybody on this board that the Owners would use their power in this fashion. Wasn't even really that hard to figure it out but if you would rather believe that nobody saw this coming that's fine.

The thing of it is thou, it's that the NFLPA is there to see these exact kinds of things coming. Even if you wanna say the players didn't know, which I think is a load of BS because this possibility was all over talk radio at the time, the NFLPA should have know. They are paid to know this stuff so sorry, I can't buy into that.

 

[75boyz]

The real kicker here is - If the NFL would have followed process to the letter and included everything, they still could have handed down the suspension. And it would have been much harder to appeal. It really shows the arrogance and pure stupidity on their part that they even tried to cover up, prevent and hide key statements. That alone has left them open to having the ruling over turned.

But what if they had followed ever procedural step and was completely transparent? What recourse would of he had then? Imagine being completely innocent and still being suspended? How is that remotely fair? And how do we prevent that from happening in the future? That's what needs to be addressed.

The other thread UNDISPUTED: "Ezekiel Elliott Suspension Upheld" provides additional compelling evidence regarding due process and fundamental fairness.

Of particular note is Cowboys 1985 citing a Federal statute regarding arbitration procedures and how federal court's may rule favorably against a collectively bargained agreement if proper procedure(fundamental fairness) was not used.

Maybe it should be merged with this original post.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think Zeke can prove the system and procedure of the NFL is more than flawed when your lead investigator and only person to even interview Thompson recommends no punishment. So now how does the league come back and say he did it and must serve 6 games when again the only person who sat down and interviewed Thompson seems to come to a completely different conclusion.

According to the filing, the NFL’s director of investigations, Kia Roberts, testified that following her interviews with the woman who accused Elliott of domestic violence, she recommended to the league that the Dallas player not be suspended. However, Roberts was left off the NFL panel that decided on Elliott’s punishment, and her recommendation was not included in the league’s final report or official letter to him.

“Arbitrary decision-making and internal inconsistencies continue to plague the most senior level of management of the League,” the NFLPA said in a statement released Friday. “This is the latest and best example of the Players’ belief that independent, transparent and collectively bargained policies generate the best systemic results for all parties.”

Roberts was reportedly the only NFL staffer to speak directly with Elliott’s accuser, Tiffany Thompson, a former girlfriend. After a year-long investigation, the NFL decided that “credible evidence” indicated that Elliott inflicted “physical force” on Thompson multiple times in July 2016, but the filing claimed that Roberts herself had concluded that Thompson “was not credible in her allegations of abuse.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-for-ezekiel-elliott/?utm_term=.4f357a412c40

I think any decent lawyer could take the NFL to court and win.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Do you think he did it? And if so, what additional proof do you, or the NFL for that matter, have that the police and prosecutors office didn't have? Are you, or the NFL for that matter, more qualified to pass judgement than those official departments? The legal system has confirmed Zeke to be innocent.

If I'm TT I am immediately suing Zeke in a civil case. Stating that since the NFL has levied a suspension he must be guilty. She could certainly subpoena the league office, investigators etc to her defense since they are the experts in the matter. Do you support that?

Do I think he did what, exactly? I think Zeke has issues with women, yes. It was rumored at OSU as well. I have no idea what proof the NFL or anybody has but doesn't really matter what I think. Doesn't even really matter what the "legal system" thinks. I think Zeke is making some poor decisions right now. I think that if he doesn't figure it out, it's going to cost the team eventually. I think that the NFL holds all the cards here and that people who try to compare the "legal system" to decisions made by the league either don't get it or don't want to get it. That burden of proof is not required and has no bearing, in it's strictest terms or according to the way it might be applied in a court of law. Your question of if I think I am more qualified or if the NFL is more qualified is pretty much baseless.

I am not passing judgement and neither is a court of law. So yes, the NFL is more qualified because they are the only ruling body who can. As to the question of me, well, I would ask you to turn that around and ask the same question of yourself. Are you qualifed?

I think I would say no to the TT suing the NFL, to be honest. I don't think the money is there to do that and the NFL can just last a suit out. I think it's a poor use of money but whatever. I guess if TT wants to, TT can.

 

[CWR]

The real kicker here is - If the NFL would have followed process to the letter and included everything, they still could have handed down the suspension. And it would have been much harder to appeal. It really shows the arrogance and pure stupidity on their part that they even tried to cover up, prevent and hide key statements. That alone has left them open to having the ruling over turned.

But what if they had followed every procedural step and were completely transparent? What recourse would of he had then? Imagine being completely innocent and still being suspended? How is that remotely fair? And how do we prevent that from happening in the future? That's what needs to be addressed.

Right, and how is his 6 games justified in comparison to others with similar/worse cases that received lesser punishments? And yes after the DV policy was changed in 2014 the NFL still wasnt suspending players for the standard 6 games.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

To be fair, youre probably right. In my diluted mind I think enough evidence will be brought forward to prove the process was flawed and at the same time I completely expect us to be without Zeke for 6 games next season. Just because its right doesnt make it so.

I agree with this.

 

[BlindFaith]

The other thread UNDISPUTED: "Ezekiel Elliott Suspension Upheld" provides additional compelling evidence regarding due process and fundamental fairness.

Of particular note is Cowboys 1985 citing a Federal statute regarding arbitration procedures and how federal court's may rule favorably against a collectively bargained agreement if proper procedure(fundamental fairness) was not used.

Maybe it should be merged with this original post.

Again, even if they had used proper procedure and fundamental fairness, Goodell could have still simply ruled that Zeke did it in his opinion. There would be no court case or appeal. Zeke's team isn't appealing the decision, just that they didn't follow fundamental fairness in process.

 

[CWR]

That's a stretch, IMO. I've heard that it will be dismissed. I've heard that it will be no more then two games. I've heard it will be overturned. None of that has happened. I do not accept that this is a foregone conclusion. It might be overturned but I am not so sure.

Unfortunately being overturned and proven to be flawed are two entirely different possible outcomes. They will and already have proven the NFL intentionally withheld information for the purpose of condemning Zeke. Wether or not the court sees fit to overturn the suspension I can only hope.

 

[BlindFaith]

Do I think he did what, exactly? I think Zeke has issues with women, yes. It was rumored at OSU as well. I have no idea what proof the NFL or anybody has but doesn't really matter what I think. Doesn't even really matter what the "legal system" thinks. I think Zeke is making some poor decisions right now. I think that if he doesn't figure it out, it's going to cost the team eventually. I think that the NFL holds all the cards here and that people who try to compare the "legal system" to decisions made by the league either don't get it or don't want to get it. That burden of proof is not required and has no bearing, in it's strictest terms or according to the way it might be applied in a court of law. Your question of if I think I am more qualified or if the NFL is more qualified is pretty much baseless.

I am not passing judgement and neither is a court of law. So yes, the NFL is more qualified because they are the only ruling body who can. As to the question of me, well, I would ask you to turn that around and ask the same question of yourself. Are you qualifed?

I think I would say no to the TT suing the NFL, to be honest. I don't think the money is there to do that and the NFL can just last a suit out. I think it's a poor use of money but whatever. I guess if TT wants to, TT can.

So you think he abused her to the extent that Zeke should be in jail. And you feel that because the police nor the DA or anyone else who is legally authorized to punish him didn't, then you feel that the NFL is in the right to do so. Got it.

So innocent until proven guilty means nothing now. Court of law has no bearing on anything a player does or doesn't do. If Goodell wants to suspend a player, he can basically do so on a whim. What's next, suspending players because of their religious beliefs? Maybe he'll start suspending players for being gay. Kapernick hasn't technically been suspended, but it's clear that he's been black balled. So basically if you say something that the league doesn't agree with you jeopardize your career.

Sounds great.