Dissing DWare

[jobberone]

I did forget about 1987, thanks.

But the argument is the same. West coast passing elements and offensive rule favorings, it is in general more difficult to generate sacks today than it was 20 years ago.

Some people are too dense to take the evidence for what it is. The late 80s produced a big change in the way offense's were run, making it far more difficult to put up big sack numbers. Which is exactly what I said on the previous two pages.

It is more difficult IMO. The rules favor the passer, passing team, and WR far more than they ever have. Ever. No hands to the head. No beating the QB up every game. No beating the WRs up. Nothing after 5 yds. Yada.

I rewatched the game Ware exclusively.

I didn't take notes but I'll tell you what I saw.

1. 5 times, Ware did nothing, basically got owned.
2. Ware got some for of pressure 5 times, even when double teamed.
3. Ware was doubled 4 or 5 times, that's it.

Here's the biggest one.

1. The QB threw the ball in 2 secs or less most of the time.
We have a coverage problem.

They threw the ball quickly to short routes to defeat a very aggressive Dallas front seven. Not because they want to throw short. And they don't throw short because our coverage is a problem. They threw short because that's not hard to do. Anyone under the current rules should be able to complete short quick passes.

It's not a hard concept but everytime I say the above I'm met with silence.

I wish everyone would stop complaining about the lack of pressure when NO ONE can put up significant pressure with short quick passes designed to defeat it.

If a team can run the ball to supplement those routes and march the ball down the field without making a mistake then they will be hard to beat.

 

[Spectre]

Fact: Demarcus Ware is not Lawrence Taylor.
He also does not smoke crack.

 

[zrinkill]

After I wiped my butt with it, I sent it to your mom. I believe she keeps it under her pillow cuz she likes the smell of it while she's falling asleep.

So you wanna bring mom's into this kid?

I prefer to point out how silly you are.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

It's not a hard concept but everytime I say the above I'm met with silence.

That's because they all have you on ignore.

 

[cowboys2233]

I'm sorry, but you're flat out WRONG here.

LT revolutionized the game, much the way Bob Hayes did. LT was a freakin' man-beast and if anything over time people have FORGOTTEN how good he really was.

I honestly remember thinking that Carl Banks was the better all-around LB, and especially when it came to playing the run. I remember thinking that LT was a glory hound, and never particularly worried about stopping the run to his side. He was all about running down quarterbacks and RBs that were running to the opposite side.

Carl Banks was fierce against the run.

 

[Clove]

They threw the ball quickly to short routes to defeat a very aggressive Dallas front seven. Not because they want to throw short. And they don't throw short because our coverage is a problem. They threw short because that's not hard to do. Anyone under the current rules should be able to complete short quick passes.

So genius, how would you stop the short pass?

 

[AdamJT13]

I'd say half of his sacks have been either coverage sacks, or the pressure actually came from the other side and forced the QB to Ware.

This season, or in his career?

I'd have to check again on this season's five sacks, but sometime last year I went back and watched every sack Ware has had in his career, and he almost always was the ONLY player anywhere near the quarterback.

 

[superpunk]

You win this round....

I am impressed that you were big enough to see the logic behind my opinion and admit this.

Respect.

 

[AdamJT13]

Are you talking to me Adam? Because I didn't say that.

I was speaking in general about some of the comments made in this thread. If you believe that Charles Haley pressured the quarterback "almost every time he rushed the passer," then it applies to you, as well. If not, then it doesn't.

I said he got to the QB more often than Ware does.

If that was true, it would be shown in the statistics. But like most haters, you already said you don't care about the statistics.

The Homerism here continues to amaze me:
1. About half the people in Zone Game Day Chat have been saying that although Ware is great, he doesn't seem to be getting to the QB as much this year.

The Cowboys' coaches would disagree with that statement, since they've awarded him more quarterback pressures per game than they did last season.

Some say that a lot of his sacks have come late in games where the game was probably decided.
2. Stats are posted that back up the fact a lot of his sacks were late in games -- a few occurred when the game was out of hand.

CLE: 4th quarter, 11:10 remaining, 3rd-and-11, Dallas up 28-10
PHI: 4th quarter, 1:23 remaining, 3rd-and-13, Dallas up 41-37
GB: 4th quarter, 0:36 remaining, 2nd-and-10, Dallas up 27-16
WAS: 1st quarter, 3:35 remaining, 3rd-and-7, scoreless
CIN: 4th quarter, 1:44 remaining, 2nd-and-10, Dallas up 31-22

Really, the only one that didn't mean much was the one against Green Bay, although the Packers still had a slim chance to force overtime.

The sacks against Philadelphia and Cincinnati came late, but the Eagles game was still in doubt, and the Bengals still had plenty of time. Both of those sacks all but sealed the victory. Most coherent people would consider those "clutch" sacks, not "garbage" sacks.

4. At least one Dallas writer comes out and says the same thing as the 'Ware Haters' - hasn't played quite as well as he can (even though he is still a great player).
5. Ware himself, comes out and says he hasn't played as well as he wanted to. Ware says that he doesn't care what the stats say. See article posted by Woodysgirl.

I don't think anyone has claimed Ware hasn't played as well as he can. Everyone knows he hasn't had one of his trademark three-sack games -- but he's still among the leaders in sacks, and he has more sacks and pressures per game than he did last season.

Of course, the haters would have you believe that guys like Lawrence Taylor and Charles Haley averaged two sacks and 15 pressures a game because they "don't care about statistics" and "know what they saw with their own eyes" 15 or 25 years ago.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

Ware is A-ok in my blue book!!

 

[jobberone]

That's because they all have you on ignore.

Either that are they're afraid of me.

 

[jobberone]

So genius, how would you stop the short pass?

If you're smart enough to recognize my genius then you should be able to answer that yourself. In fact you should be able to answer it period. If you're going to be a smart aleck try to do a better job.

 

[Clove]

If you're smart enough to recognize my genius then you should be able to answer that yourself. In fact you should be able to answer it period. If you're going to be a smart aleck try to do a better job.

Here we go, an internet pacman. Hello IGNORE.

 

[jobberone]

Here we go, an internet pacman. Hello IGNORE.

I see. You start off a conversation with a disparaging remark then when someone calls you a smart aleck you bring out the dreaded IGNORE. I used to have a lot of respect for you. You've damaged that with all your whining lately and now with your less than pithy remarks when someone presents actual football for you to discuss.

And don't compare me with Pacman. Calling you out for name calling is not being a thug.

 

[2much2soon]

I am surprised to see the comparison of DWare and LT's stats so close. I wouldn't of suspected that and it makes me even more impressed with Ware.
Its even more impressive when you consider that LT played with a much, much better supporting cast on defense (Carson, Banks, Johnson, Marshall, Burt) and that LT was probably clinically insane and coked up a good amount of the time.

 

[jobberone]

I am surprised to see the comparison of DWare and LT's stats so close. I wouldn't of suspected that and it makes me even more impressed with Ware.
Its even more impressive when you consider that LT played with a much, much better supporting cast on defense (Carson, Banks, Johnson, Marshall, Burt) and that LT was probably clinically insane and coked up a good amount of the time.

Can't disagree with that being a very good defensive club. Also, LT was able to hammer a QB and the Dback were able to beat on the WRs. In 74 they changed the rules to favor WRs and again in 77 and 78. In 96 they started enforcing the 5 yd rule strictly. They also started protecting the QBs even more from blows to the head.

What's my point? It's hard to compare players that played in different eras. Rules change. Players get bigger and faster ad nauseum. Offenses and defenses evolve and different kinds of players are sought after. You get it.

Even LT had easier rules than Ware has. And Deacon Jones had a much easier time getting after the QB than LT. BTW, IMO Butkus, D Jones and Bobby Bell were better defensive players than LT. They did it all esp Butkus. Then again Lilly and White were better also. LT deserves to be in the same conversation which to me is about all you can say.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Of course, the haters would have you believe that guys like Lawrence Taylor and Charles Haley averaged two sacks and 15 pressures a game because they "don't care about statistics" and "know what they saw with their own eyes" 15 or 25 years ago.

Three sacks per game, thank you very much. I seen it myself.

 

[zrinkill]

Of course, the haters would have you believe that guys like Lawrence Taylor and Charles Haley averaged two sacks and 15 pressures a game because they "don't care about statistics" and "know what they saw with their own eyes" 15 or 25 years ago.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Oh, brother.

He did that in highlight videos, but so did every player.

 

[dbair1967]

I don't see anyone "Dissing" Ware, but he obviously hasn't been playing up to his potential this year.

He even said so himself.

every opposing offensive staff in the league that has to play us has one goal and one goal alone, and thats to take Ware out of the equation on as many plays as possible...the guys been double and triple teamed a ton this yr

the problems are nobody else is stepping up, the coaching staff has had lame game plans and play calls and the secondary plays too soft.