DMN: BLOG: What would you give up for (Det) Roy Williams?

[theogt]

Ad hominem. Always the last bastion of those that know they have no leg to stand on.

Yawn. People typically stop saying this in high school.

I actually thought you were proposing to give up more than any trade other than the Galloway trade but then I looked it up and saw the Moss trade was up there as well. Both are noted as two of the stupidest trades in NFL history and now youre saying we should give up a first and a second.

Actually what was prima facia was that your original proposal was idiotic. Perhaps you should review the initail responses to your proposal.

Yes, meeting resistance at CowboysZone is a sure sign that you're wrong.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yawn. People typically stop saying this in high school.

Yes, meeting resistance at CowboysZone is a sure sign that you're wrong.

the reason why people stop saying that is because the name calling stops in high school. fact is youre resorting to insults and just like in high school it shows a lot about the insulters position.

Also youre the one talking about how it should be obvious but when its thrown back in your face you try and take this tact. Its called an internal contradiction in your argument.

I know your intelligent Theo but i swear you have to have the emotional and ego makeup of a 14 year old.

 

[theogt]

the reason why people stop saying that is because the name calling stops in high school. fact is youre resorting to insults and just like in high school it shows a lot about the insulters position.

Also youre the one talking about how it should be obvious but when its thrown back in your face you try and take this tact. Its called an internal contradiction in your argument.

I know your intelligent Theo but i swear you have to have the emotional and ego makeup of a 14 year old.

Ha. Sure thing.

I think people also tend to figure out the difference between "your" and "you're" by high school as well.

The bottom line is that you made a ridiculous comparison and probably didn't even realize it when you did. Now, you should realize it and drop it.

 

[BourbonBalz]

First off, comparing what the Patriots had to give up to get Moss and Welker with what we would most likely have to give up for Williams is stuipd. Moss is considerably older and has had quite a few "issues" over his career. And, who out there thought Welker was as good as he has been this year? Nobody, that's who. Prior to this year, he was just a quick little slot receiver.

Here's what I'd be willing to do.

1) Trade either of our # 1s (not both) and a # 2 or a # 3 for Fitzgerald. Not going to happen, but I'd do it in a heartbeat.

2) Trade our 28th and a 6th or 7th for Roy Williams. I wouldn't trade a # 1 AND a # 2. Might even consider a # 3, but not # 2.

We're just a piece or two away from being the most talented (and young) team in the entire league. We have to draft a top notch CB in the draft. We also have to either draft or sign a fast RB to compliment Barber. Given that we probably can't make a trade for Fitzgerald, I'd certainly settle for this. Draft the best CB available at # 22. Trade our # 28 to Detroit and get Williams. Draft one of the many very good RBs with our 2nd round pick. Very few rookies are going to make our team next year. We really don't have much of a need to keep 6th and 7th round picks. Use them to trade up for fewer higher rated picks. As an alternative, we could sign a FA running back like Turner, but what will he cost? The bottom line is this. We HAVE to get a good, young, and fast WR and CB, along with a speedy RB this off-season, through both FA and the draft. Everything else is just gravy.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Forgot to address one thing. I also wouldn't mind trading Carpenter as long as we get something worth while for him. I don't like having a first round draft pick sitting on the bench for two years, with # 3 looming ahead. If the coaching staff thinks he will move into a starting position next year, then keep him. Otherwise, we're just letting him rot on the bench. I do not want to trade Spears. He played very well this year and I love our depth on the DL. We have a fantastic rotation on the DL and that's very important.

 

[Rack]

Moss doesn't play for the Cowboys

and you didn't answer my question about Galloway breaking his leg twice...

I don't recall any questions about Gallowaste breakign his leg. And I don't recall Gallowaste ever breaking his leg. I know he tore his knee up in his first game ever with the cowboys, but don't recall any broken legs.

 

[CF74]

I don't recall any questions about Gallowaste breakign his leg. And I don't recall Gallowaste ever breaking his leg. I know he tore his knee up in his first game ever with the cowboys, but don't recall any broken legs.

Ok so Gallowaste blew his knee, refresh my memory on how early on did this happen..

 

[Rack]

Ok so Gallowaste blew his knee, refresh my memory on how early on did this happen..

It happened in the 4th quarter of his first game as a cowboy.


Campo, being the complete moron of a head coach that he was, decided to keep Gallowaste in the game despite the fact that the Eagles were blowing us out (the pickle juice game) and Troy Aikman not even in the game (yet another concussion).


Don't remember how it happened, but I think he got twisted up trying to catch a pass in the endzone.


And that work of genius started off the Campo Era.

 

[Spectre]

Our 2nd round pick and Akin Ayodele.

Our #28 and Ayodele.

RW is an absolute freak, w/o a QB, on a horrible football team.
What this guy and Romo could do for many, many years is the stuff dreams are made of.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It seems like you guys just make up whatever you saw done on Madden and think it makes sense.

Williams was not very good this last year and he has only a year left on his deal and where do you get all these first round picks as being a good value ideas from?

It just seems to me like the thinking is 'well hes from Texas and I really like him so a first just has to be a good idea' when in reality there is no good precedent for doing it. Deion Branch, Joey Galloway and Randy Moss Part Uno were all horrible trades yet you guys seem to think that this guy who was hurt again last year will merit similar compensation. its unbelievable.

 

[justbob]

I also think he is worth a top 5 pick. He's young, very adequate speed, and could be the go-to-guy on any team in the league. I would prefer Fitz but I would settle for Roy.

I agree. Fitz would be my first choice --but I would take either and have a proven product over drafting one if I could

 

[Sarge]

The comparison was remarkably dumb. Admit it and move on.

It was incredibly dumb indeed. He'll never admit it though. He'll just take potshots at others to make himself feel better. It actually makes for a rather enjoyable read.......................

Carry on . . .

 

[burmafrd]

Roy Williams would be an interesting pickup. With one year left on his initial contract, this would be an audition for the NFL. Very motivating. If we can get him for our frst, it would be a good deal. even if we only ended up keeping him that one year- what if we get a SB out of it? How much is a SB worth?

 

[raichledog]

It seems like you guys just make up whatever you saw done on Madden and think it makes sense.

Williams was not very good this last year and he has only a year left on his deal and where do you get all these first round picks as being a good value ideas from?

It just seems to me like the thinking is 'well hes from Texas and I really like him so a first just has to be a good idea' when in reality there is no good precedent for doing it. Deion Branch, Joey Galloway and Randy Moss Part Uno were all horrible trades yet you guys seem to think that this guy who was hurt again last year will merit similar compensation. its unbelievable.

I think people dramatically underestimate how good a player Roy Williams is. He is on a team that has no quarterback, and no running game, and yet he puts up fantastic numbers.

He was averaging over 5 catches per game, and was on pace for over 85 catches and 1,100 yards receiving. 2 years ago he had over 1,300 yards receiving and has 28 touchdowns in only 4 years. He's explosive, big, great hands, and YOUNG.

Saying he hasn't played well, or isn't worth a 1st rounder is just silly.

To address the 2nd portion of your comment, if we made the trade, I'm certain it would be contingent on negotiation an extension on his contract and locking him up for another 5-6 years.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think people dramatically underestimate how good a player Roy Williams is. He is on a team that has no quarterback, and no running game, and yet he puts up fantastic numbers.

He was averaging over 5 catches per game, and was on pace for over 85 catches and 1,100 yards receiving. 2 years ago he had over 1,300 yards receiving and has 28 touchdowns in only 4 years. He's explosive, big, great hands, and YOUNG.

Saying he hasn't played well, or isn't worth a 1st rounder is just silly.

To address the 2nd portion of your comment, if we made the trade, I'm certain it would be contingent on negotiation an extension on his contract and locking him up for another 5-6 years.

Kitna has been with them for the last two years and while he is not all world he certainly isnt bad. Plus Williams plays in Mike Martz system where WR stats are inflated.

Perhaps you should look up his stats because he put up fantastic numbers ONCE and while he may have been on pace to put up decent numbers he did what he alays does and got hurt.

Fact is that his value is depressed because of his once again being hurt last year and while a deal would necessitate an extension negotiation that would also DECREASE his value in trade as it decreases the leverage that the Lions have.

Im still waiting for a singledecent precedent other than the debacles involving Moss, Galloway or Branch. Those were bad trades and now youre proposing another one. I mean heck Chris Chambers who has put up better more consistent numbers over his career with bad to worse QBs at the helm and a no injuries still only garnered a second and that was even with multiple years left on his deal.

But hey lets give up a first when the Lions have no leverage and we could still get him next season for NOTHING.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It was incredibly dumb indeed. He'll never admit it though. He'll just take potshots at others to make himself feel better. It actually makes for a rather enjoyable read.......................

Carry on . . .

How is comparing making a deal that involves taking a first and a seocnd for a WR and another deal that was expected to take atwo late firsts for another WR 'stupid?' You guys keep babbling this and giving no explenations but when it comes down to it thats what we expected to give in the Galloway trade.

I have explained what I just said several times yet the two of you keep up with this nonsense. Furthermore, youve come into this thread twice now to try and take shots at meso keep your hypocritical jargon to yourself.

You couldnt explain yourself out of a paperbag much less why my comparison is invalid yet the two of you parrot the same tripe.

 

[theogt]

How is comparing making a deal that involves taking a first and a seocnd for a WR and another deal that was expected to take atwo late firsts for another WR 'stupid?' You guys keep babbling this and giving no explenations but when it comes down to it thats what we expected to give in the Galloway trade.

I have explained what I just said several times yet the two of you keep up with this nonsense. Furthermore, youve come into this thread twice now to try and take shots at meso keep your hypocritical jargon to yourself.

You couldnt explain yourself out of a paperbag much less why my comparison is invalid yet the two of you parrot the same tripe.

We've explained to you why your comparison was ridiculous. You just don't accept our explanation.

 

[CF74]

Kitna has been with them for the last two years and while he is not all world he certainly isnt bad. Plus Williams plays in Mike Martz system where WR stats are inflated.

Perhaps you should look up his stats because he put up fantastic numbers ONCE and while he may have been on pace to put up decent numbers he did what he alays does and got hurt.

Fact is that his value is depressed because of his once again being hurt last year and while a deal would necessitate an extension negotiation that would also DECREASE his value in trade as it decreases the leverage that the Lions have.

Im still waiting for a singledecent precedent other than the debacles involving Moss, Galloway or Branch. Those were bad trades and now youre proposing another one. I mean heck Chris Chambers who has put up better more consistent numbers over his career with bad to worse QBs at the helm and a no injuries still only garnered a second and that was even with multiple years left on his deal.

But hey lets give up a first when the Lions have no leverage and we could still get him next season for NOTHING.

I feel ya man and most of the opinions are they would prefer to give up a 2nd but are willing to give up as much as a 1st to get him. It's a gamble that can go either way, just like a draft pick can go either way. Nothing is guaranteed, we get it...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We've explained to you why your comparison was ridiculous. You just don't accept our explanation.

You meant he part where you put words into my mouth? How about an explanation based on what I actually said not what you would have liked me to say so you would have a point.

Anyway, even if I grant this it still doesnt answer everything else like absolutely no good and reasonable precedent for giving two high draft picks for an oft injured WR with one year on his deal froma team with NO leverage.

 

[theogt]

You meant he part where you put words into my mouth? How about an explanation based on what I actually said not what you would have liked me to say so you would have a point.

Anyway, even if I grant this it still doesnt answer everything else like absolutely no good and reasonable precedent for giving two high draft picks for an oft injured WR with one year on his deal froma team with NO leverage.

Explaining things to you doesn't seem to be very fruitful and thus not worth the time.