DMN: Cowlishaw: Cowboys have almost nothing to show from '08, '09 and '12 drafts

jterrell

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Anytime you have two 1st round picks and neither player gets a 2nd contract, you've had a bad draft.

The 2009 class was an abortion. 2012 an F-.

This notion that the Cowboys are now much better at drafting is an extreme exaggeration. Maybe better than the horrific 95-02 era but still pretty awful.

The argument that a 2nd contract is a measure of draft pick success is heinously faulty.
By that argument Cliff Avril, Chris Canty and many others were BAD draft picks.

It is simply untrue and based upon nothing but your opinion.

Good draft picks provide value on the field and against the salary cap.
not all those guys will remain after the value is altered via free agency.
Thus is life in the NFL.

Was Marion Barber somehow a better draft pick because we paid him a fortune to fall off a cliff? Or was sit the value he provided on his rookie deal that made him a great draft pick?

Mike Jenkins did not get a 2nd contract in Dallas but he did make a Pro Bowl at CB here. He was a starter on a division winner.
 

jterrell

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Except the part about having to draft for need. You never have to draft for need. In fact, the only way out of being so needy is to stop drafting for need.

Again that's patently untrue.
Positions have values and if you ignore positions you'll just draft really good back ups regularly.
Not ironically almost exactly why everyone hates the Escobar and Bennett selections.

For the worlds biggest OL fetishist this argument is absurd.

I guess we should draft kicker this year right?
 

jterrell

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Yes and no. The philosophy is to draft for need within a tier all things being relatively equal. A little bit of yin and yang.

Most intelligent people realize this is the case.

You can't value every position equally in the draft no more than you can when paying free agents.
But you also can't drastically reach for a guy based upon position.
As you note Dallas does tiers by round and tries to stay within ranges while addressing needs.

Worked awfully friggin well with Travis Frederick.
 

Risen Star

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Yeah I didn't make it very clear, but when I said "have to" I meant that's what the Cowboys have felt like they needed to do.

Oh, I don't think you're wrong. I just disagree with the thinking. When you draft for need, you are chasing your tail using a process like the NFL draft, where you are supposed to stockpile young talent, and instead try to force quick roster fixes with it. I've never seen a team build a contender this way.

IMO, the best way to go about this is to admit this roster can't be fixed in one offseason but we can start the process now the right way. Take the talent. Do it consistently every year. Watch those needs start to disappear over time. Get your cap right. Plug the holes that way in veteran free agency.

Of course you take the need with similar ranked prospects. I'm just talking about when you have one guy above all others. Trust your scouts and take that guy. You shouldn't care how he fits on the team the first year.

Even as bad as our defense is right now, the Cowboys should not be entering this draft with the intent to revamp the defense. That should be the hope, but it shouldn't trump taking the best players at our picks.
 

Nova

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Oh, I don't think you're wrong. I just disagree with the thinking. When you draft for need, you are chasing your tail using a process like the NFL draft, where you are supposed to stockpile young talent, and instead try to force quick roster fixes with it. I've never seen a team build a contender this way.

IMO, the best way to go about this is to admit this roster can't be fixed in one offseason but we can start the process now the right way. Take the talent. Do it consistently every year. Watch those needs start to disappear over time. Get your cap right. Plug the holes that way in veteran free agency.

Of course you take the need with similar ranked prospects. I'm just talking about when you have one guy above all others. Trust your scouts and take that guy. You shouldn't care how he fits on the team the first year.

Even as bad as our defense is right now, the Cowboys should not be entering this draft with the intent to revamp the defense. That should be the hope, but it shouldn't trump taking the best players at our picks.

That's our biggest problem though. Our GM is not trying to build a contender. He's hoping to get to the playoffs and get hot.

But yeah, I agree with everything you said. Although. I would like to see a defensive line heavy draft because I think it would be a good starting foundation. Build it up, and keep working the OL as well. Go from there.

Just depends on what's available though.
 

peplaw06

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Oh, I don't think you're wrong. I just disagree with the thinking. When you draft for need, you are chasing your tail using a process like the NFL draft, where you are supposed to stockpile young talent, and instead try to force quick roster fixes with it. I've never seen a team build a contender this way.

IMO, the best way to go about this is to admit this roster can't be fixed in one offseason but we can start the process now the right way. Take the talent. Do it consistently every year. Watch those needs start to disappear over time. Get your cap right. Plug the holes that way in veteran free agency.

Of course you take the need with similar ranked prospects. I'm just talking about when you have one guy above all others. Trust your scouts and take that guy. You shouldn't care how he fits on the team the first year.

Even as bad as our defense is right now, the Cowboys should not be entering this draft with the intent to revamp the defense. That should be the hope, but it shouldn't trump taking the best players at our picks.
That's exactly how you rebuild a roster. Problem is Jerry won't admit we need a rebuild. Well that, and he wouldn't know how to rebuild a team without significant help.

Once you have a roster rebuilt, then you can use a few draft picks for needs.

At this point, there are very few positions where we don't need at least some help. We could probably stand to bring in a QB, RB, WR, OL, DT, DE, LB, S...
 
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