First, he also discussed the '12 draft. You're simply focusing on one part of his claim.
Secondly, you haven't proven in any way that it was an "absurd conclusion," even if you solely focus on 08 and 09 drafts. If those drafts had been "good" you would be in here claiming how our personnel department was "good." It works both ways. The drafts were bad, period. The personnel department is dysfunctional. Someone pointed out that the Seattle and Denver drafts were also bad in those seasons to try to make it seem like an absurd conclusion. Well apparently, those franchises thought the personnel department was bad after those drafts, because the GM/personnel departments have changed there.
And I pointed that out too. You dismissed it, saying that our cap restrictions prevented us from resigning our players from 08 and 09. Talk about absurd. Jenkins, Jones, Bennett, etc. -- all those guys who you talked about as being successful picks simply because they started a lot of games here -- we let those guys walk. The guy (singular) that we wanted to keep, we kept. Jones and Jenkins (former 1st round picks) signed contracts for peanuts, and we extended Scandrick, devoting much more in resources to him. So if we were capstrung with Jones and Jenkins, why weren't we with Scandrick? The 09 draft was an abject failure.
The 12 draft -- yes, I'm analyzing it earlier than 3 years -- looks bad as well. We have an oft-injured CB who we traded up for, who is not a fit for our new defensive scheme. Crawford was injured last year, but he hasn't shown much, and Wilber was effective at times. But looking at it right now, the draft was bad. The remaining 4 picks were essentially wastes.
I don't really care what other teams have done. The drafts were bad, and I don't have to look at other teams to determine that. You can try to deflect the issue by saying that other teams have had bad drafts, but it doesn't change the fact that our drafts in those years were bad.
Oh, there's definitely a debate. But keep saying easily and demonstrably, like those words matter. Until you actually refute it, then there's really no point in trying to engage your bluster. And I started a long time ago, I guess you needed it spelled out for you.
Have fun.
yup, fun times indeed.
first, let's deal in reality, i.e. what was actually stated.
Tim Cowlishaw: I don't know how you could look at recent drafts and say that. From 2008, Scandrick is the only player here. From 2009, no one is here. 2012 appears to have been a terrible draft -- trading up to get Claiborne. In what world, are these good drafts? They should provide the core of this team right now and there is almost nothing there.
The last statement makes a claim not in evidence. In fact all evidence points to the contrary. That drafts that far back are actually not commonly "the core" of NFL teams in 2013. I could care less what people think or feel, only what facts indicate are true. I want to deal in reality. Dr. Phil is there to handle feelings.
2008: Whether or not players are currently around has little to do with a drafts impact beyond those initial contracts. Those players were all legit NFL guys who contributed ~120 starts and ~250 games played while here on rookie contracts. Paying a guy a bad contract to stick around doesn't make him a better draft pick.Look at the roster behind the starters. Would Mike Jenkins, Martellus Bennett, Tashard Choice not make these rosters??? Of course they would. But we have rookies on rookie contracts instead. That's why I said we didn't have cap dollars. But, but, but Scandrick... Dallas kept one guy and got a sweetheart deal done early to do so. Once he was kept it was clear Jenkins was gone which is why there was dissension. Jenkins' take was that he played hurt and took lumps for the team and they really never made him a legit offer. But he wanted top 20 CB money and that was NOT forthcoming. Bennett got starting TE jobs and money the past two seasons. Dallas had a 6th round rookie making ~250K in that position. It's not like we spent wildly to replace our RBs or TE. We did spend to replace Jenkins targeting a much bigger, more physical guy and paying a fortune because we didn't trust Jenkins lasting physically through a 2nd contract. But right after we drafted Jenkins, the Chargers drafted Cason. Cason likewise got his rookie deal then left in FA. Getting a couple seasons plus worth of starts at CB has a very real value. Ignoring that is willfully ignorant.
2009: No one is arguing that was a disaster. But one failed draft in a 6 year span is hardly rare.
2012: We can debate the trade up for Mo and while I'd agree that "appears" to look like a bad decision that story is far from written. Mo has played about as well as Tyron Smith did in his first two seasons if we are being honest. This time last year not a soul was calling Smith All-Pro. But the upside and potential were there. Same with Mo who has flashed excellent coverage skill if questionable physicality. Mo is NOT Deion but he could be Joe Haden who just made his first Pro Bowl in his 4th year after some up and down seasons.
Crawford: Contributed heavily to rotation as a rookie. Changing schemes and injury means we as a fan base know little about what Crawford can do next year but he's never been a bad player on the field yet and he's never failed to earn playing time when healthy.
Wilber: Another guy effected by a scheme shift. Not big enough to be a 4-3 DE so he appears to have found a home as a SLB. Has to prove it over more than a few games though.
Matt Johnson: Persona non grata. Makes roster because apparently he has a skill set no one else on roster does but has given us zero.
Coale: El Busto. Nothing to him.
Hanna: Been a very good draft pick. Played more than 30% of the offensive snaps since he was drafted out of round 6.
McSurly: Fringe NFL special teams guy if anything. Not useful.
2012 is a mixed bag. Not some 2009 draft that produced no true NFL talent but also not a 2013 where every guy you draft is helping the team immediately. But mostly the final 2012 draft grade is unknown. What we thought we knew about the 2011 draft class changed drastically with the years Tyron and Murray had. I think it's more than reasonable to say 2012 is far from settled.
various other points:
SEA/SF changed GMs. So what? ~half of the teams in the NFL change GMs over a 6-7 year period. There is zero evidence the 2008/2009 drafts had much if anything to do with it. Dallas has changed Coaches/Schemes and personnel guys heavily since then.
San Fran's GM has been with the team since 2005. 2005-2007 produced more than 2008 and 2009 FOR THIS CURRENT 49ers team. The previous GM? HE WENT TO SEATTLE as Sr. Personnel guy.
The current Seattle GM was hand picked by Carroll and has less true GM power than any GM in football.
Seattle remade their team of almost entirely new players on rookie contracts.
When all those guys his free agency they won't retain them all.. that doesn't mean they were draft picks.
If you don't like games started and games played as a metric or measure for grading drafts feel free to define a metric.
But don't come in here with nonsensical axioms that detail how you feel things should be and offer nothing in way of measurement.
