DMN - Crayton "Now we're contenders" - 6/04/08

[ilovejerry]

I want to know what makes PC a leader on this team please. someone tell me.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think most agree that Irvin was a leader however what made him a leader were not his comments to the media. What I saw was each year at training camp in Austin when guys were sucking wind Irvin would be out there hollering 4th qrt guys lets pick it up. Irvin pushed his teammate but did so where it counts on the field be it in a game or at practice. That is where leadership has to take place not in front of a mic.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

In case you all failed to notice, this team has had ZERO leadership over the last few years. Few guys step up and talk. We need that. We need attitude and confidence. Because frankly, this team has played without confidence down the stretch over and over again.

And for all the "walk the walk" talk, folks need to shut up and recognize the contributions that PC made last year. Crayton had an excellent year and was rewarded -- he had a bad playoff game -- lots of our guys did and that's why we LOST to the Giants. If you pin that loss on him, you have zero understanding of the game.

The guy has made some pretty decent contributions since arriving at Valley Ranch but there are several other guys on this team that are far more valuable and productive that know how to carry themselves when in front of the media.

It is kind of like saying guys like Demarcus Ware and Jason Witten aren't leaders because they don't talk trash in front of the media.

Patrick Crayton needs to STHU when the microphone is in his face until his production on the field warrants his cocky attitude.

I bet everytime he opens his mouth now Wade Phillips just covers his face with both hands and just shakes his head or maybe he does -->> :bang2: .

 

[ilovejerry]

I think most agree that Irvin was a leader however what made him a leader were not his comments to the media. What I saw was each year at training camp in Austin when guys were sucking wind Irvin would be out there hollering 4th qrt guys lets pick it up. Irvin pushed his teammate but did so where it counts on the field be it in a game or at practice. That is where leadership has to take place not in front of a mic.

Patrick Cayton isnt a pimple on Irvins Rear end !

 

[iceberg]

In case you all failed to notice, this team has had ZERO leadership over the last few years. Few guys step up and talk. We need that. We need attitude and confidence. Because frankly, this team has played without confidence down the stretch over and over again.

And for all the "walk the walk" talk, folks need to shut up and recognize the contributions that PC made last year. Crayton had an excellent year and was rewarded -- he had a bad playoff game -- lots of our guys did and that's why we LOST to the Giants. If you pin that loss on him, you have zero understanding of the game.

romo, to, witten, barber - you daring to say they showed ZERO leadership?

i'm with you on PC getting more flack than he deserves, but that's where i have to stop. PC is not a leader because he's just not. his charisma isn't up there high enough, and just talking smack doesn't inspire anyone.

tell you what - go watch the choice video before clemson - it's on youtube.
then go watch any crayton interview before a game.

if you can say crayton is a leader after watching choice then there's just no hope for you.

i do think patrick crayton gets more than his share of grief for dropping 1 ball. i do think people gloss over his contributions because of that 1 drop. i think that's overstating the problem.

i also think calling PC a leader vastly overstates his contributions as well.

i also think it's crap on a wicker stick to say this team has ZERO leaders and you just got a burr up your hiney you wanna show off.

 

[Doomsday101]

Patrick Cayton isnt a pimple on Irvins Rear end !

I'm not trying to dog Crayton. As I said I like him but right now I don't see any benefit from any player popping off to the media. You got something to prove then do it where it counts. Most teammates don't care what another member says to the media because it is meaningless. What you are doing on the field and in the locker room, meeting rooms and film room matters. The rest is for public consumption and has nothing to do with leadership

 

[utrunner07]

Crayton improves each year.

Yeah so could I. Does not make me good.

 

[AbeBeta]

romo, to, witten, barber - you daring to say they showed ZERO leadership?

i'm with you on PC getting more flack than he deserves, but that's where i have to stop. PC is not a leader because he's just not. his charisma isn't up there high enough, and just talking smack doesn't inspire anyone.

tell you what - go watch the choice video before clemson - it's on youtube.
then go watch any crayton interview before a game.

if you can say crayton is a leader after watching choice then there's just no hope for you.

i do think patrick crayton gets more than his share of grief for dropping 1 ball. i do think people gloss over his contributions because of that 1 drop. i think that's overstating the problem.

i also think calling PC a leader vastly overstates his contributions as well.

i also think it's crap on a wicker stick to say this team has ZERO leaders and you just got a burr up your hiney you wanna show off.

So you are saying that this team has enough leadership? That's crap and you know it. Just look at the excitement over getting Zach Thomas. Why? Most of the folks on this board were psyched because of the leadership he brought.

You may not like what Crayton says or how he leads but someone on this team has to show confidence. Choice shows great leadership but not every player responds to the same stuff -- you've got in your head what you would respond to as "leadership" but that varies wildly and you need different guys leading in different ways. You need the strong silent types, you need the rah rah guys, you need the speech makers, and you need the cocky guys who are a little overconfident.

 

[AbeBeta]

T
Again, you equate talking to leadership, I don't. You think the actual talent on this team takes Crayton's mouth seriously?

The guy went out and embarrassed himself and his team last season. I'm amazed that none of them have come out and told him to shut it already!

And there you have it.

We have too few leaders on this team. If the leaders felt embarrassed they would have come out and told him to shut up. No vocal leadership so you gotta take what you can get.

 

[Doomsday101]

So you are saying that this team has enough leadership? That's crap and you know it. Just look at the excitement over getting Zach Thomas. Why? Most of the folks on this board were psyched because of the leadership he brought.

You may not like what Crayton says or how he leads but someone on this team has to show confidence. Choice shows great leadership but not every player responds to the same stuff -- you've got in your head what you would respond to as "leadership" but that varies wildly and you need different guys leading in different ways. You need the strong silent types, you need the rah rah guys, you need the speech makers, and you need the cocky guys who are a little overconfident.

Rah Rah to who? Fans? Media? that is who he is talking to. That is not leadership it may be fun for the fans but that has absolutely nothing to do with leadership. Verbal leadership is also on the field going the extra mile talking to teammates for them to go the extra mile with you. Talking into a mic does nothing.

 

[ilovejerry]

So you are saying that this team has enough leadership? That's crap and you know it. Just look at the excitement over getting Zach Thomas. Why? Most of the folks on this board were psyched because of the leadership he brought.

You may not like what Crayton says or how he leads but someone on this team has to show confidence. Choice shows great leadership but not every player responds to the same stuff -- you've got in your head what you would respond to as "leadership" but that varies wildly and you need different guys leading in different ways. You need the strong silent types, you need the rah rah guys, you need the speech makers, and you need the cocky guys who are a little overconfident.

Your damn tot-tin I'm excited to get an experienced Pro bowl ( albeit ) aged Veteran like a Zach Thomas on my team,

Yes I will admit I don't like PC, There's no denying that The Freddie Mitchell comparison is perfect a overachieving player with a king Kong ego who tries to equate his leadership with a big mouth tries to promote himself by spouting off about how great this team is and yada yada..... I don't want to hear it from YOU shuddap and play football you little bald headed pansy ( Ok so I got a little emotional there ) I'm sick of him talking and to try and call him a leader is completely off base when you have a team full of them...I don't know what some people think leaders do ...maybe someone should clarify to me why PC is a leader because when the camera is on he can call out BJ and say they suck...Or say the Pats aren't that good ..or I love this comment we will meet them again ,,yeah when PC ? when you watch them in the SB...You think he would learn ...no he goes and shoves his feet again in his mouth ..........I hate him .........I so hate the fact that he is on my team that's even worse....That I have to wait to see what other gem this guy comes up with next

 

[Stash]

And there you have it.

We have too few leaders on this team. If the leaders felt embarrassed they would have come out and told him to shut up. No vocal leadership so you gotta take what you can get.

Sorry, but Crayton popping off at the mouth isn't "leadership".

And I don't have "to take" that.

Let him lead with his on-field play, not his mouth.

 

[iceberg]

So you are saying that this team has enough leadership? That's crap and you know it. Just look at the excitement over getting Zach Thomas. Why? Most of the folks on this board were psyched because of the leadership he brought.

You may not like what Crayton says or how he leads but someone on this team has to show confidence. Choice shows great leadership but not every player responds to the same stuff -- you've got in your head what you would respond to as "leadership" but that varies wildly and you need different guys leading in different ways. You need the strong silent types, you need the rah rah guys, you need the speech makers, and you need the cocky guys who are a little overconfident.

did i say i was satisfied with leadership? no. i said we have (4) players that showed leadership far beyond what crayton has done on offense alone. i asked if you felt these players were NOT showing leadership.

if people lead with vision, ethics and their own abilities, they don't need to tell people how good they are verbally. their actions show it. if crayton were a great leader he'd never have to say it, would he?

now this is NOT to say that we don't need all personalities on the team. but being a personality doesn't mean you're a leader, does it?

i'll agree it takes all types to make a team. i don't agree all types are leaders in their own right. in this case the only person i see on the team following crayton is crayton.

you'd windmilling and not making any sense. but have fun.

 

[Idgit]

I have to disagree. You have to run your route 100%. In terms of the read, you have to TRUST your QB will make the same read as you. That play is a perfect example of what happens when you don't. Undoubtedly it happens where the same read is not made between a QB and WR, but his explanation sounds like an excuse. If he made his read, ran the pattern at speed but they read it differently so they didn't connect, it would be one thing, but that was not the case. You simply cannot give up on a route, period. I'm sure Crayton does think about that play, and feel bad about it, but to me it still sounds like rationalizing.

My point was, he took plenty of responsibility for his play in that game, he just emphasized one play a lot more than the other. There was the bobbled punt thrown in there, too.

I hear you. I recall that as well. And I also acknowledge that the coaches, etc. see Crayton everyday. But, again, IMO, when I watch Crayton catch (sometimes with a bobble as if he might be fighting the ball) and I watch Glenn catch, who seems to make it so effortless in the way his hands bring in the ball, it appears Glenn has the better hands significantly.

You won't find a bigger TG fan on the board than me. TG is definitely the better WR and I'm just glad they both have good hands. That was a Parcells comment anyway, IIRC. If so, it could also just have been something he said to needle Terry. Who knows. I'm just glad we have a 7th round pick who's developed well enough to take the urgency off of our 2WR position. If that's not good enough for others, at least it's a break from the Roy Williams reflexive bashing.

 

[iceberg]

Sorry, but Crayton popping off at the mouth isn't "leadership".

And I don't have "to take" that.

Let him lead with his on-field play, not his mouth.

with you on this one. being annoying isn't a leader or i've have been class president in high school.

 

[iceberg]

And there you have it.

We have too few leaders on this team. If the leaders felt embarrassed they would have come out and told him to shut up. No vocal leadership so you gotta take what you can get.

or maybe the "leaders" realize the "kids" must play and go RAH RAH around and give the other team lockerroom material. also, if saying "hey, we're a contender" makes you a leader, we got thousands in here who feel the same way.

again, are you daring to say romo, to, witten and barber on offense are *not* valid leaders?

 

[Chief]

My take on Patrick Crayton:

He is a possession receiver known for his hands who dropped the biggest pass of his life.

You see guys like Crayton all the time -- they talk a better game than they can physically produce. Bad teams have several Patrick Craytons on their roster and really good teams have very few if any.

 

[Stash]

with you on this one. being annoying isn't a leader or i've have been class president in high school.

I'd sure have voted for ya!

:laugh2:

 

[iceberg]

I'd sure have voted for ya!

:laugh2:

dude. i'm nowhere NEAR as annoying as i was 20+ years ago. that may shock some, but the few times i ever see people from those days they don't recognize me looks or the way i act.

i know i'm difficult at times, and that can be annoying. but back then it was just annoying and i've got 2+ brothers who'll vouch for me.

but i don't think that will be needed. : )

 

[AbeBeta]

Let him lead with his on-field play, not his mouth.

That's the attitude this team has taken over the years. And it resulted in very little development of leadership.