DMN: Dan Reeves: You can't win with distractions, different agendas

[WV Cowboy]

It is a bit of a gamble for sure. The Giants got better when they dumped the distracting Shockey and Tiki retired, but they slumped when Plaxico was suspended.

I said if we got rid of Owens and didn't replace him. Check it out, that's what I said.

The giants had a real good young TE to replace Shockey, and 3 good RB's to replace Barber.

But noone to replace Buress, ... that is my point.

But cutting Owens WOULD send a VERY huge message to everyone on the team that no one is safe if you don't tow the line, not even if you are a pet of the owner/GM. That could be huge. Potentially even much bigger than the loss in production such a cut would bring.

Owens tows his share of the line.

So you do agree losing Owens would be a loss in production.

So explain to me again why we would do that, .. especially without having the personnel to replace said production.

 

[jterrell]

This is just a theory, but I think Terrell Owens and his huge shadow being in Dallas isn't good for Roy Williams.

Owens is such a forceful, dominant personality, that Williams seems content to slack off, run a few routes as the No. 2 guy and just enjoy the circus. Of course, he'll whine a little bit, because in this day and age, that's almost what is expected of receivers.

If Owens is gone, and the coaches sit Williams down and give him a "come to Jesus talk," telling him that the franchise gave up a lot for him, that he is critical to the team's success, that he needs to assert himself as the No. 1 receiver, then I think he might come around and accept the challenge. Austin would be a nice No. 2 to go along with Williams and Crayton could remain the slot receiver, where he's best suited.

But if Owens stays, I see Williams' personality as someone who will just do enough to get by and let Owens continue with all the drama and be the No. 1 guy. Like it or not, I think Williams needs to be built up, prodded and told he's the No. 1 guy for him to be able to really excel in this environment. That can't happen with Owens here.

Ironically Chief it was just the opposite at UT. He entered as the 3rd of 3 very highly touted high school WRs. He simply passed those guys on the way to establishing himself as one of the best UT WRs of all time.

He also played at Detroit with great WRs and was their lead guy until they felt he slacked off in his work habits and drafted Calvin Johnson. He easily surpassed Charles Rogers and Mike Williams there.

Roy has 1 pro bowl to his name. I am not sure he is the dominant Wr we think of him as whether T.O. is here or not.

In fact I think working out with T.O. might be what RW needs to excel.

The one thing T.O does more than run his mouth is just run.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

If anyone is so firmly entrenched on either side of this argument then imho they are just pig-headed. There are strong arguments ot be made for both sides and even then it is going to be close.

Terrell is a shiny attention seeking star. He also has 3 years here of very strong performances and little to suggest he is outside the norm at the WR position in terms of crying for the ball or being me first. The most explosive thing T.O. did was call Werder a liar... after he next questioned him for a few weeks. Not sure that merits the vitriole the guy receives here.

At the same time there would be no bigger message about team unity than cutting the him or Romo. Not that Romo isn't a team guy but that's about the only louder message to send is cutting your starting QB. So perhaps he can be a example but not sure he has actually done anything to deserve the axe.

End of the day what makes Dallas better? I don't think any of us can know for certain. I lean to keeping his talent but it is just a leaning.

Agreed, though I lean fairly strongly the other way. I readily admit that there are loads of unknowns and that the TOists have a number of good points.

 

[wileedog]

True, but they didn't this year.

Which means what?

True, but he didn't this year.

Which means what?

If we know for a fact Williams and Garrett are not going to do their jobs this year based on last year, then why are we keeping them? And What was wrong with Witten's season?

Roy has several solid NFL seasons behind him on a much, much worse team than this one. To write him off because of a season like this is silly - and I say this as someone who thinks the trade was stupid.

And if Garrett can't win without a 35 year old WR, or find a way to get Roy the ball consistently, he should be canned now. You don't keep an idiot in your locker because the coaching stinks - you get better coaching.

And hey, Owens had his worse year statistically in a season he was healthy in over a decade. Take out the SF game when the Niners coaching staff lost their minds and it was even worse. If you want to use the "he didn't last year" then apply it to him too.

False, as much as it pains me to say, Ward is real good.

He's not a guy who would demand constant double teams or keeps safeties out of the box. Especially not this year.

Sorry, on pure production no one would take Ward over TO.

I said if Owens is gone and we don't replace him.

Replace him with who?

If we could replace his production with another player who didn't have his attitude, don't you think they would have done this, like, yesterday? Well ok, maybe Jerry wouldn't.

Look, I've said it before, either get a stronger HC who can control TO or get TO out of here and find a better way to win. To simply march the same cast out there next year and expect better results is just a wasted season IMO. Starting with the two reality shows in camp means the circus is just playing on and on and on

 

[WV Cowboy]

This is just a theory, but I think Terrell Owens and his huge shadow being in Dallas isn't good for Roy Williams.

Owens is such a forceful, dominant personality, that Williams seems content to slack off, run a few routes as the No. 2 guy and just enjoy the circus. Of course, he'll whine a little bit, because in this day and age, that's almost what is expected of receivers.

If Owens is gone, and the coaches sit Williams down and give him a "come to Jesus talk," telling him that the franchise gave up a lot for him, that he is critical to the team's success, that he needs to assert himself as the No. 1 receiver, then I think he might come around and accept the challenge. Austin would be a nice No. 2 to go along with Williams and Crayton could remain the slot receiver, where he's best suited.

But if Owens stays, I see Williams' personality as someone who will just do enough to get by and let Owens continue with all the drama and be the No. 1 guy. Like it or not, I think Williams needs to be built up, prodded and told he's the No. 1 guy for him to be able to really excel in this environment. That can't happen with Owens here.

No offense, but do you realize all of the negative things you just said about Williams ??

I would rather have T.O. than the weak guy you described Williams as being.

Williams needs to man-up, come to practice with an attitude, and perform in such a way that they have to get him the ball.

Not hope that his competition goes away.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Which means what?

I think we are agreeing more than you think.

 

[jobberone]

While whether to cut Owens is not a simple answer, IMO, the team has a lot of problems not related to him. Like tackling, blocking, protecting the ball, STs, getting a safety or two, an ILB, a big NT, OL depth and a backup QB. And stop talking to the media with the exception of Wade.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

If Owens is gone, that is our only hope.

But from what I saw from RW11, (who I am glad is here) I would hate to hang the entire 09 season on him.

I would hate to hang any entire season on any wide receiver.

And I agree with Chief. Get TO out of here and Roy could be ready to blossom.

 

[Dhragon]

I said if we got rid of Owens and didn't replace him. Check it out, that's what I said.

The giants had a real good young TE to replace Shockey, and 3 good RB's to replace Barber.

But noone to replace Buress, ... that is my point.



Owens tows his share of the line.

So you do agree losing Owens would be a loss in production.

So explain to me again why we would do that, .. especially without having the personnel to replace said production.

Hixon was Plaxico's replacement. And earlier in the year when he DID replace him, he did outstanding. So to say they had no replacement was false, because they sure THOUGHT they did. And Boss is no Shockey in terms of production, which you are sure high on Owens about. And they didn't KNOW for a fact that they would have three RBs who would actually end up being an upgrade over Tiki. They lucked out. They gambled and won (until Burress). No one can GUARANTEE we won't miss Owens on the playing field - you never can with replacements. Doesn't mean you never try and replace someone who might need replacing.

And why the heck did we give up so many draft picks to get Williams if we DON'T have a replacement for Owens already? Because he didn't do well last year being a second banana in an unfamiliar offense with a rotating then injured QB situation you are totally discounting his past record of production at Detroit?

Again, I'm on the fence about cutting T.O. vs. keeping him, but we DO have a replacement (and a very costly one to boot) on our roster who has the potential to shine if given the chance with a full off-season and training camp working with Romo on timing and trust.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

I would be entirely on-board with getting Owens out of here had Roy Williams showed anything close to what we thought we were trading for. I never expected him to light up the scoreboard. I did expect a little more motivated and impressive player. He just did not show much of anything and frankly was a liability at the end of the season.

Williams was a big disappointment but I don't think getting rid of Owens will force him to step up his game.

Most of these guys take the happy-to-be-here approach and don't have a clue as to what it takes to be successful. The sound of mediocrity is deafening in the hallowed halls of Valley Ranch. If Jerry and Wade do not find a way to inject a little motivation -- and discipline -- into this team then I see no way for them to improve.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Again, I'm on the fence about cutting T.O. vs. keeping him, but we DO have a replacement (and a very costly one to boot) on our roster who has the potential to shine if given the chance with a full off-season and training camp working with Romo on timing and trust.

Then we're good to go, we can cut Owens now.

<crossing my fingers>

 

[Dhragon]

Williams was a big disappointment but I don't think getting rid of Owens will force him to step up his game.

Most of these guys take the happy-to-be-here approach and don't have a clue as to what it takes to be successful. The sound of mediocrity is deafening in the hallowed halls of Valley Ranch. If Jerry and Wade do not find a way to inject a little motivation -- and discipline -- into this team then I see no way for them to improve.

And cutting Owens, a Jerry Jones favorite, just might send a big enough message to GET those players motivated and disciplined. Since Jerry won't fire Wade, something must be done, and cutting Owens might help more than we think on a variety of different levels on instilling a little fear among those just "happy to be there"..

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Then we're good to go, we can cut Owens now.

<crossing my fingers>

You do realize one of the biggest problems we had this year was how to get all of our Playmakers touches?

How many teams can make this claim?

Are you really making the case that an Offensive Coordinator couldn't develop a successful scheme around an offense that features Tony Romo, Felix Jones, Marion Barber, Tashard Choice, Roy Williams, Jason Witten, Miles Austin and Patrick Crayton?

You don't need an "elite" receiver to win a Super Bowl anyway.

 

[Dhragon]

Then we're good to go, we can cut Owens now.

<crossing my fingers>

Whenever you replace someone of Owens stature, you're right. You do have to cross your fingers and pray. It might backfire on you.

At his age though, he will continue to decline each year anyway, bit by bit. Thus, each year we will have to cross our fingers anyway and pray that he can still be an elite or even just a very good receiver that year.

You are assuming Owens' down year (which was still pretty good) was either an abberation or it's low water mark. Personnally I think we'll be lucky if he stays healthy and comes even close to his numbers from this previous year. I think 1000 yards is no gimmee nor is 10 TDs anymore with T.O. Possible, yes. But no gimmee.

We have almost just as much chance with Roy to get those numbers as the #1 IMO (if HE can stay healthy that is). And at least Roy is young enough to improve each year instead of degrade.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

And cutting Owens, a Jerry Jones favorite, just might send a big enough message to GET those players motivated and disciplined. Since Jerry won't fire Wade, something must be done, and cutting Owens might help more than we think on a variety of different levels on instilling a little fear among those just "happy to be there"..

Cutting Owens would have an effect on the rest of the team but I do not see it happening. He would have to go on a crime spree of Bonnie & Clyde proportions before Jerry does anything to him.

 

[CF74]

So should we pack in the season if Owens goes down the first game?

If they put 8 in the box than Roy Williams and Witten need to step up. Or Genius OC needs to figure out how to use the weapons he has, which are still more than most teams field. Pittsburgh has gone to the SB 2 out of 3 years with Hines Ward as their best WR. I like Ward, but he's not TO on the field (or off of it).

Why did we hire a defensive coach if we were going to rely on an offense to put up 35 a game to win? Why are we paying $3M to an OC who can't win without Owens despite having an offense that features 7 out of 10 starters other than him who have been to a Pro Bowl in their careers? And that doesn't include Felix who I think will get there in short order if he stays healthy.

You complained people were making the false extreme statement "Everything will be better without Owens" and then turn around and imply "Everything is doomed without Owens"

What are we, the Dallas Owens'?

Ahh the Ivy League genius..

New hope has risen in the wings of Reeves the "Consultant."

Why $3 million, cause Jerry loves to spend?

 

[Dhragon]

Cutting Owens would have an effect on the rest of the team but I do not see it happening. He would have to go on a crime spree of Bonnie & Clyde proportions before Jerry does anything to him.

You are probably right. Almost everyone believes the same thing. That is why cutting him would send such a huge message.

However, we will probably just have to hope we can overcome our problems and at least compete next year (until December/January of course when we will fold again) with Owens and the baggage he brings.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I would hate to hang any entire season on any wide receiver.

And I agree with Chief. Get TO out of here and Roy could be ready to blossom.

I just meant in the way every team depends on someone being the #1 WR.

If we get rid of TO and say RW11 is the #1 guy, we sure better hope he can live up to that or our season will suffer.

And I can't agree with Chief on this one. Funny how everything is T.O.s fault. Now it's his fault Williams has been a disappointment.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Are you really making the case that an Offensive Coordinator couldn't develop a successful scheme around an offense that features Tony Romo, Felix Jones, Marion Barber, Tashard Choice, Roy Williams, Jason Witten, Miles Austin and Patrick Crayton?

He struggled with an offense that featured Tony Romo, Felix Jones, Marion Barber, Tashard Choice, Roy Williams, Jason Witten, Miles Austin and Patrick Crayton, ... and Terrell Owens.

Our OC did not impress me this year.

 

[Dhragon]

I just meant in the way every team depends on someone being the #1 WR.

If we get rid of TO and say RW11 is the #1 guy, we sure better hope he can live up to that or our season will suffer.

And I can't agree with Chief on this one. Funny how everything is T.O.s fault. Now it's his fault Williams has been a disappointment.

I've not read anyone say it's ALL Owens' fault. Most though realize he is PART of the problem and so want that part taken care of at least since apparantly Jerry is against solving other, bigger problems such as HC,OC, and for some GM. Better to solve some of the problem than none of it.