DMN: NFL VP of Officiating: It’s not unreasonable to watch everything Dez did and think

[SultanOfSix]

I think it's pretty simple. When you have to start explaining interpretations of rules that go against what your eyes can obviously see and what common sense tells you (that it was an obvious catch), then what you're effectively doing is engaging in a form of what is called post hoc rationalization - in this case, "fitting" an interpretation of the rule to tenuously justify a decision that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[Blackspider214]

Was the ruling on the field a catch? Yes.
Was there indisputable evidence to overturn the ruling on the field? No.
Did Dez make a football move common to the game? Yes.

I believe the league screwed up on this one. With about 4 mins left and the ball at the one yard, 1st and goal, this would have been set up for a classic finish.

Yeah I have no idea how they botched this. Some were saying leading up to the game, we were going to get no calls on the road in GB. And especially not with all the media overreaction to what happened in the Lions game and how they claimed they were cheated.

I know it's been beaten to death but it's middle of July so who cares. If it was ruled incomplete on the field, then I could understand. But there was no evidence at all that should have overturned it. To overturn a call, there has to be clear cut, 99% evidence that the call needs to be reversed. Calls don't get overturned that often. We got screwed in that Giants game, too on SNF. We recovered a fumble but they deemed there was no evidence that we did. Even though it was pretty clear the ball came out and we got it.

That could have been an all time classic finish and they ruined it. Saying what they are now means zero. Can't change what happened ever. We will forever have to live with that moment. Not knowing if we could have stopped GB. Not knowing if we would have held on, maybe the most anticipated NFC title game 2 decades would have taken place. We matched up very well with Seattle with how our offensive line bullies their smaller front 7.

If GB marched down the field and scored and we lost, so be it. But I could live with it. No one will ever be able to accept what happened, though.

 

[guag]

http://cowboysblog.***BANNED-URL***/files/2015/03/BLANDY.jpg

 

[guag]

All I can say is that if this blown call isn't enough motivation for the team to come out swinging and play the best football of their lives this season, I don't know what will.

 

[KJJ]

Stop making yourself look like a fool. Dez caught that ball. and the rules have nothing to do with it. so you can take that BS and stuff it. the cowboys were cheated out of a chance to go to the NFC championship game. PERIOD! and no BS spin by you and the NFL is going to change that fact. the cowboys got screwed.

The only ones looking like fools are FANS like you who've been screaming for the past 7 months that the Cowboys got screwed when the reversal was confirmed by the NFL to be the correct call. The ones who look like fools are the FANS who continue to claim the ball never touched the ground or came loose despite undisputable frame by frame visual evidence.

 

[KJJ]

The league (Blandino) simply stated the rule that a receiver going to the ground must maintain control through contacting the ground. But it's one thing to know a rule, and another thing to know when it applies. It most definitely does not apply to a runner, which Blandino knows, and which anyone who is still talking about the play should know well by now.

The only way to make the call correct is to say that Dez was a receiver and not a runner. Once you make Dez a receiver, you make that rule fit this play. But in order to make Dez a receiver, you have to show that he did not complete the three-part catch process of control, both feet down, and an act common to the game. Which of those three elements do you think was missing?

Again we covered this months ago go argue it with Blandino.

 

[percyhoward]

I think it's pretty simple. When you have to start explaining interpretations of rules that go against what your eyes can obviously see and what common sense tells you (that it was an obvious catch), then what you're effectively doing is engaging in a form of what is called post hoc rationalization - in this case, "fitting" an interpretation of the rule to tenuously justify a decision that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Nice overview. Specifically, it's Blandino's baseless interpretation that Dez was still a "receiver" that allows the application of a rule that makes the pass incomplete. But generally speaking, it's just effective PR in action.

 

[nathanlt]

This is just a continuation of what we went over at least a dozen times immediately after the season. If the play was correctly called on the field it wouldn't have been reversed and the league would have admitted a mistake was made by reversing the call. The ground can't cause a fumble period. I'm going to continue to repeat what I've been saying until you get tired of hearing it. Under the RULE for a receiver "who's going to the ground" to have control of the football they must maintain control of it through the contact of the ground and Dez clearly didn't. EVERYONE agrees Dez caught the football but under the RULE because his momentum was taking him to the ground he must maintain control of it through the contact of the ground and he DIDN'T!

The play has been examined and dissected frame by frame like the Zapruder film and 3 things are very clear Dez is going to the ground, the ball clearly touched the ground and it clearly came loose immediately upon contacting the ground which equals no catch under the RULE. You're arguing what the league confirmed to be a correct call by RULE. The call wasn't bad the RULE is bad. Training camp is 9 days away continuing to argue this isn't going to change anyone's opinion we're just wasting time rehashing what's already been argued numerous times over the past 7 months....enough already!

KJJ, explain this. Explain how "control through contact of the ground" is different than "down by contact", how that supercedes the following, even if Dez is determined to be a reciever. Look carefully at note 1, and realize Dez didn't even have to make the SEVEN football moves he made.

Article 3
Completed or Intercepted Pass.
A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete
(by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:
(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act
common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an
opponent, etc.).
Note 1: It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.

 

[DallasEast]

This is just a continuation of what we went over at least a dozen times immediately after the season. If the play was correctly called on the field it wouldn't have been reversed and the league would have admitted a mistake was made by reversing the call. The ground can't cause a fumble period. I'm going to continue to repeat what I've been saying until you get tired of hearing it. Under the RULE for a receiver "who's going to the ground" to have control of the football they must maintain control of it through the contact of the ground and Dez clearly didn't. EVERYONE agrees Dez caught the football but under the RULE because his momentum was taking him to the ground he must maintain control of it through the contact of the ground and he DIDN'T!

The play has been examined and dissected frame by frame like the Zapruder film and 3 things are very clear Dez is going to the ground, the ball clearly touched the ground and it clearly came loose immediately upon contacting the ground which equals no catch under the RULE. You're arguing what the league confirmed to be a correct call by RULE. The call wasn't bad the RULE is bad. Training camp is 9 days away continuing to argue this isn't going to change anyone's opinion we're just wasting time rehashing what's already been argued numerous times over the past 7 months....enough already!

Stop making yourself look like a fool. Dez caught that ball. and the rules have nothing to do with it. so you can take that BS and stuff it. the cowboys were cheated out of a chance to go to the NFC championship game. PERIOD! and no BS spin by you and the NFL is going to change that fact. the cowboys got screwed.

I feel sympathetic when cowboyvic tells KJJ to stop making himself look like a fool.

Wait. Yep. That was gas. Nevermind.

 

[Richmond Cowboy]

Not sure why I do this to myself but I just went back and re-watched that play. Brings goosebumps just to see an amazing play between Tony making the perfect throw and Dez making the amazing acrobatic play on the ball. Such a damn shame. Those guys did not deserve to get screwed over the way they did.

 

[KJJ]

There hasn't been a topic this offseason or any offseason since I've been on this board that's been beaten more than Dez's catch and yes it was a catch just not a legal catch according to the RULE. I've lost track of how many threads have been started discussing the play and many FANS have claimed the refs screwed the Cowboys out of reaching or winning the SB. Had Dez's catch not been reversed and the Cowboys pounded the ball in a play of 2 later the Packers would have had well over 3 minutes and all their TO's to win the game with a FG. Had Dez's play stood up and the Cowboys went on to score a TD and convert a 2 point conversion the Packers still would have had plenty of time to win the game with a TD. The Cowboys wouldn't have been able to stop the Packers from scoring a FG or TD in the closing minutes due to the lack of pressure on Rodgers. Not having a Demarcus Ware and a pass rush came back to haunt the team and many of us knew it would vs an elite QB in the playoffs.

All Green Bay was trying to do on their final drive was milk the clock and were able to move from the Cowboys 28 to their own 33 in 2 1/2 minutes enabling Rodgers to start taking a knee with a 1:43 left. What helped cost the Cowboys in the end besides the lack of pressure on Rodgers was a poor decision on 4th and 2 with 4:42 left. The Cowboys started that drive with 9:05 left and had a nice time consuming drive going. On 4th and 2 with 4:42 left there was no reason to go for broke and throw a 50-50 jump ball to Dez on a manageable 4th and 2 play with that much time left especially considering how Rodgers was chewing up the defense in the second half. You can't leave Aaron Rodgers with well over 3 minutes to play and all his TO's to continue taking apart a defense that's been struggling the entire second half.

A high percentage throw on 4th and 2 to Witten or Beasley in that situation would have been hard for the Packers to defend. Once the Cowboys got the first down they could have ran Murray who averaged 4.9 and worked on the clock forcing the Packers to burn their TO's. The closer the Cowboys got to the endzone would have brought a fade to Dez in the corner and the odds of completing that would have been a lot higher than a 50-50 jump ball from 32 yards out. Had the Cowboys played smart and not reacted like it was a do or die situation on 4th and 2 with under a minute to play they could have scored and left the Packers with little time left to answer. I'm as disappointed as everyone else that Dez's catch was reversed but I knew it would be reversed I said so on the game chat.

I saw on the first replay the ball come loose as Dez was going to the ground reaching for the goal line. The ball popped up as it hit the ground and by RULE that's not a catch. Those who can't see the ball hit the ground will never see it hit the ground. Those who can't see the ball come loose will see it come loose. Those who think the Cowboys got screwed on the call will always think they got screwed on the call. Those who are still angry over the call will remain angry over it. I'm at peace with the decision that went down because I understand the RULE. I don't like the RULE but it's the RULE and if Cowboy FANS want to seethe over the call into the 2015 season and beyond I feel sorry for them because feeling like a call robbed your team of a championship is no way live your life as a fan or a FAN. One single play didn't cost the Cowboys that game it was several plays many of which involved the defense.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I have wrestled with me feelings about this play all off season. And as much as I want that to be a catch, I see exactly what the refs see. Contact by Dez and the defender, no matter how many steps he took, is what caused him to fall IN THEIR EYES. It was not the reaching out, or leaping forward, but IN THEIR EYES, it was the sense of out of control and pushing off toward the goal line in a continuation of what they considered falling that counts.

IN THEIR EYES, HE WAS FALLING FORWARD.

One can make the argument he was stepping forward, but his body angle gave them a sense he was losing a fight with his balance. And that was precipitated by the contact.

In that light, he had to maintain control of the ball. The ball popped out of his hand. There is no disputing that.

Football move is far too subjective for anyone to assign that to what transpired.

I hate it, But I get it.

It doesn't make a difference if he 'fell forward' or whatever.

The rule states that if he advances the football then it is declared a catch and can no longer be incomplete.

They call it the Calvin Johnson rule because he was in the end zone and cannot move the ball forward. The other time that applies is when a receiver is trying to keep both toes in bounds and doesn't maintain the catch.

Why?

Because the receiver is not advancing the ball in that scenario.

Once the ball is advanced, regardless of how it is advanced, it's a catch.

Nowhere does it say you have to 'advance it far enough' as Blandino tried to claim after the game.

This guy is a C-L-O-W-N. He's never officiated a game and will not admit to making a horrendous mistake because it shows that they do *not* understand the rules.

I would be the first person here to say it wasn't a catch if it wasn't a catch. But, according to the rules it was a catch, just these buffoons don't know what they are doing.








YR

 

[nathanlt]

There hasn't been a topic this offseason or any offseason since I've been on this board that's been beaten more than Dez's catch and yes it was a catch just not a legal catch according to the RULE. I've lost track of how many threads have been started discussing the play and many FANS have claimed the refs screwed the Cowboys out of reaching or winning the SB. Had Dez's catch not been reversed and the Cowboys pounded the ball in a play of 2 later the Packers would have had well over 3 minutes and all their TO's to win the game with a FG. Had Dez's play stood up and the Cowboys went on to score a TD and convert a 2 point conversion the Packers still would have had plenty of time to win the game with a TD. The Cowboys wouldn't have been able to stop the Packers from scoring a FG or TD in the closing minutes due to the lack of pressure on Rodgers. Not having a Demarcus Ware and a pass rush came back to haunt the team and many of us knew it would vs an elite QB in the playoffs.

All Green Bay was trying to do on their final drive was milk the clock and were able to move from the Cowboys 28 to their own 33 in 2 1/2 minutes enabling Rodgers to start taking a knee with a 1:43 left. What helped cost the Cowboys in the end besides the lack of pressure on Rodgers was a poor decision on 4th and 2 with 4:42 left. The Cowboys started that drive with 9:05 left and had a nice time consuming drive going. On 4th and 2 with 4:42 left there was no reason to go for broke and throw a 50-50 jump ball to Dez on a manageable 4th and 2 play with that much time left especially considering how Rodgers was chewing up the defense in the second half. You can't leave Aaron Rodgers with well over 3 minutes to play and all his TO's to continue taking apart a defense that's been struggling the entire second half.

A high percentage throw on 4th and 2 to Witten or Beasley in that situation would have been hard for the Packers to defend. Once the Cowboys got the first down they could have ran Murray who averaged 4.9 and worked on the clock forcing the Packers to burn their TO's. The closer the Cowboys got to the endzone would have brought a fade to Dez in the corner and the odds of completing that would have been a lot higher than a 50-50 jump ball from 32 yards out. Had the Cowboys played smart and not reacted like it was a do or die situation on 4th and 2 with under a minute to play they could have scored and left the Packers with little time left to answer. I'm as disappointed as everyone else that Dez's catch was reversed but I knew it would be reversed I said so on the game chat.

I saw on the first replay the ball come loose as Dez was going to the ground reaching for the goal line. The ball popped up as it hit the ground and by RULE that's not a catch. Those who can't see the ball hit the ground will never see it hit the ground. Those who can't see the ball come loose will see it come loose. Those who think the Cowboys got screwed on the call will always think they got screwed on the call. Those who are still angry over the call will remain angry over it. I'm at peace with the decision that went down because I understand the RULE. I don't like the RULE but it's the RULE and if Cowboy FANS want to seethe over the call into the 2015 season and beyond I feel sorry for them because feeling like a call robbed your team of a championship is no way live your life as a fan or a FAN. One single play didn't cost the Cowboys that game it was several plays many of which involved the defense.

So many words.... and yet, you won't touch the definition of "throughout the process of contacting the ground".

The RULE doesn't create a new definition, therefore, Dez's elbow being down, and ball not moving... at that instant, before it hit the ground, BY EITHER RULE IT WAS A CATCH, whether he was a RECEIVER OR RUNNER.

Yes, the ball came loose later, AFTER THE CATCH.

 

[Plumfool]

Is there a shot in which it's definitive that the ball hits the ground?

 

[KJJ]

Is there a shot in which it's definitive that the ball hits the ground?

 

[KJJ]

I remember FANS disputing that the ball touched the ground immediately after the game. When that same still shot and video was posted showing the ball clearly touching the ground a FAN claimed it only appears to be touching the ground but it's actually an optical illusion.

 

[blindzebra]

Is there a shot in which it's definitive that the ball hits the ground?

No, one angle shows the ball in Dez's hand touching the ground, but it does not show the ball move or bounce. The angle that shows the ball moving does not show it hitting the ground. So Seratore had to make an assumption which is not allowed by replay rules.

 

[DandyDon1722]

I remember FANS disputing that the ball touched the ground immediately after the game. When that same still shot and video was posted showing the ball clearly touching the ground a FAN claimed it only appears to be touching the ground but it's actually an optical illusion.

There were multiple tweets and opinions put out there from PLAYERS, including Emmitt Smith, Jerry Rice, Odell Beckham and the defender on the play) saying it was a catch which includes whatever rule interpretation you which too choose from.

You are asserting with the emphasis of the word FANS that they are low hanging fruit when it comes to discussing the play because of their inherent bias. If so, then you should hold a players opinion in higher esteem, especially from the greatest receiver of all time and a noted Cowboy rival and therefore respect AND accept their opinion --

-- Otherwise you're just cherry picking your favorite opinion.

 

[percyhoward]

Is there a shot in which it's definitive that the ball hits the ground?

Yes, but the ball hitting the ground is meaningless. When a runner who was contacted loses the ball after hitting the ground, the ball is spotted at the point where he was down. That's what the official closest to the play did, in fact. First down Dallas.

The ground can't cause a fumble, and it can only cause an incompletion if you consider Dez a receiver, but that would require him to not yet have control of the ball when it came loose. There's a little thing called the catch process that some people are conveniently ignoring, but it's the way you determine whether a receiver has gained control of the ball, making him a runner.

Dez met the three requirements of the catch process, which is the only thing that matters here. There's so much confusion over this play, but basically it was a catch that was incorrectly overturned because of a rule that was misapplied.

 

[nathanlt]

I remember FANS disputing that the ball touched the ground immediately after the game. When that same still shot and video was posted showing the ball clearly touching the ground a FAN claimed it only appears to be touching the ground but it's actually an optical illusion.

Stop acting like the ball hitting the ground is a new thing. BY RULE, Dez caught the ball. There is no justification for him holding onto it beyond getting an elbow down. NONE.

The NFL has no description for anything MORE than one elbow or knee down. You are attaching something to the rule that is not there.