Do we really want another QB that was drafted by the Browns

KJJ

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You're pointing yo Todgers as your example, but the fact is that the league just overthought it and screwed up on him. He was rightfully the top overall pick until the 49'ers screwed it up. His talent was certainly top 5.

The league over thinks QBs which is why so many top college QBs go bust. Teams get fixated on one or two of them and end up getting burned a lot of the times.



That's entirely your opinion, and not anything based in fact.

Most of my opinions are based on some facts and the facts are most top 5 QBs start immediately because the teams that draft them have an immediate need at the position. A 4-12 team shouldn't be taking any player in the top 5 that they don't have an immediate need for it would be foolish!



Rodgers is arguably the best in the league and didn't play right away, and neither did Brady. There's no magic formula when it comes to these things but in no way does sitting and learning hurt them.

Rodgers received some regular season snaps his first 3 seasons until he became the starter in his 4th season. He wasn't bubble wrapped for several seasons he got some valuable game reps enabling him to develop. Brady was starting by his second season in NE he wasn't bubble wrapped for several seasons. He was Bledsoe's backup and was a 6th round pick but you want to use our 4th overall pick on a QB and not even have them as the backup their rookie year. :rolleyes:

This immediate starter thing is strictly your opinion. If you can get a franchise quarterback at any point in the draft, you do it. End of story.

You said it right there you can get a franchise QB at any point in the draft and if you currently have one it would be foolish to risk the 4th overall pick on a QB who could go bust. Granted the higher you pick the better chance of landing a franchise QB but it also puts you in a position of landing a huge bust that could set your franchise back several years. With Romo still playing at a high level we don't need to gamble on a QB at #4 overall.
 
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Stash

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It's foolish to use the 4th overall pick on any player who's going to be a backup. If the draft were left up to you, you would use the 4th overall pick on a QB and not even allow them to compete for the backup job. LOL You would rather bubble wrap them for a few years while Colt McCoy or Johnny jack*** man the backup position. :facepalm: That's not what the Packers did with Rodgers while Favre was starting. They gave him opportunities to play as their backup and you could see the potential he had especially against the Cowboys in 07 when he almost brought the Packers from behind.

Yes, I would rather play the more experienced guy over my quarterback of the future. And I don't care whether it's pick #4 or pick #24, if I get the right guy and have football's most vital position filled, I'm thrilled about it.

My premise makes a lot of sense because I'll be using a later first round pick or a second rounder to develop a QB for the future. If they don't develop it won't be a huge setback like it will if the 4th overall pick were to go bust. The 4th overall pick should be pro ready now to make an immediate impact if they can play look at Winston and Mariota. We have a QB who can play we just need a QB to back him up that we can groom for the future and that QB can be had outside the top 10. Some of the greatest QBs in the history of the game were taken outside the top 10.

And you'll miss out on the best portions and greatly increase your chances of missing.

Manziel would bring his circus along with him which would lead to a distraction. Not only does he have off the field concerns but he looks to be injury prone having suffered injuries his first 2 seasons. Not saying Jerry won't take the risk he loves Manziel but I would steer clear of him. I wouldn't have a problem bringing in McCoy but only if I grade him out to be the best veteran QB option available. I would bring in a veteran QB to compete with the QB I draft.

Again, I don't blame you regarding Manziel, but my position is to have a zero tolerance policy. If that can't be done, I'd steer clear too. But that's ultimately up to Jerry and Co to enforce.
 

Stash

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The league over thinks QBs which is why so many top college QBs go bust. Teams get fixated on one or two of them and end up getting burned a lot of the times.

And the players are often forced into action before they're ready because the team that drafted them was desperate.

Most of my opinions are based on some facts and the facts are most top 5 QBs start immediately because the teams that draft them have an immediate need at the position. A 4-12 team shouldn't be taking any player in the top 5 that they don't have an immediate need for it would be foolish!

Again, only in your opinion. The only fact is that they're forced to start due to need.

Rodgers received some regular season snaps his first 3 seasons until he became the starter in his 4th season. He wasn't bubble wrapped for several seasons he got some valuable game reps enabling him to develop. Brady was starting by his second season in NE he wasn't bubble wrapped for several seasons. He was Bledsoe's backup and was a 6th round pick but you want to use our 4th overall pick on a QB and not even have them as the backup their rookie year. :rolleyes:

Funny how you post that emoticon and yet you're not aware that the examples you're giving supports my point. Neither guy played during their first year. Thanks for further illustrating my point.


You said it right there you can get a franchise QB at any point in the draft and if you currently have one it would be foolish to risk the 4th overall pick on a QB who could go bust. Granted the higher you pick the better chance of landing a franchise QB but it also puts you in a position of landing a huge bust that could set your franchise back several years. With Romo still playing at a high level we don't need to gamble on a QB at #4 overall.

No, what's "foolish" is not getting one and continuing to risk this franchise having a repeat of the 2015 debacle.

Romo's not "playing at a high level" when he's not even playing. And at 36, risk of injury only rises and I'm not risking this team's future any longer.
 

KJJ

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Yes, I would rather play the more experienced guy over my quarterback of the future. And I don't care whether it's pick #4 or pick #24, if I get the right guy and have football's most vital position filled, I'm thrilled about it.

No team in the league is going to use the 4th overall pick on a QB and make them their 3rd string QB allowing a veteran scrub to backup their starter. That's ludicrous! I've given my opinion and we don't agree we're just wasting each others time. I'm being sensible and you're not.
 

KJJ

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And the players are often forced into action before they're ready because the team that drafted them was desperate.

No team drafts a player in the top 5 they plan on sitting for a few years. Get real!



Again, only in your opinion. The only fact is that they're forced to start due to need.

We have a difference in opinion but my opinions are based on a lot of facts and yours aren't.



Funny how you post that emoticon and yet you're not aware that the examples you're giving supports my point. Neither guy played during their first year. Thanks for further illustrating my point.

Your point is to bubble wrap the 4th overall pick for a few seasons and not even use them to backup your starting QB. LOL Rodgers saw action in 2 games his rookie year try doing some research. He received regular season snaps his first 3 seasons. Even Tom Brady took a few snaps as a rookie.




No, what's "foolish" is not getting one and continuing to risk this franchise having a repeat of the 2015 debacle.

Romo's not "playing at a high level" when he's not even playing. And at 36, risk of injury only rises and I'm not risking this team's future any longer.

You can end up with a franchise QB after the top 10 or in the second round many teams have done it. No one is saying not to draft a QB but the Cowboys have too many pressing needs to be taking a QB with the 4th overall pick.
 

jnday

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Come on to Dallas Johnny Football. Give him a couple years and he will be a much improved player. This board will have a melt down, but it is gonna happen.
 

Stash

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No team in the league is going to use the 4th overall pick on a QB and make them their 3rd string QB allowing a veteran scrub to backup their starter. That's ludicrous! I've given my opinion and we don't agree we're just wasting each others time. I'm being sensible and you're not.

Sure you are. You keep on telling yourself that.

:facepalm:
 

Stash

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No team drafts a player in the top 5 they plan on sitting for a few years. Get real!

The Packers correctly identified and drafted the best player in the draft and sat him for several years because they're current quarterback was still playing well, but you hold on tight to that "Top 5" thing if it makes you feel better, OK?


We have a difference in opinion but my opinions are based on a lot of facts and yours aren't.

Again, you keep telling yourself that. Maybe you should stomp your feet while your at it too?


Your point is to bubble wrap the 4th overall pick for a few seasons and not even use them to backup your starting QB. LOL Rodgers saw action in 2 games his rookie year try doing some research. He received regular season snaps his first 3 seasons. Even Tom Brady took a few snaps as a rookie.

"A few snaps"? Wow! I stand corrected then, you truly showed me the error of my ways. I had no idea that those guys got "a few snaps". They must have been critical in both players' development and the true difference between their success or failure.

You can end up with a franchise QB after the top 10 or in the second round many teams have done it. No one is saying not to draft a QB but the Cowboys have too many pressing needs to be taking a QB with the 4th overall pick.

According to you they do. That's your opinion, not any of the "facts" you keep claiming to be bringing to this conversation.

And we can go over the true numbers and facts regarding the success and failure of quarterbacks taken after the first round and make your position look even worse if you'd like? You just let me know.
 

Chuck 54

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I don't understand how or why one would expect to bring in a guy with a drinking and gambling problem, no commitment to off the field football, along with a mediocre arm, and think he will make your team better. Crazy.
 

big dog cowboy

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The Packers correctly identified and drafted the best player in the draft
Not really. They may have drafted the best player in the draft but GB drafted Rodgers at 24 when he fell into their laps. Before the draft started I guarantee you GB thought there was no chance Rodgers would still be there when GB was on the clock.
 

cml750

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This is getting ridiculous. JF's issue is maturity. He will eventually mature. If any team has the infrastructure in place towith his immaturity in place it is us. If he does come here his work on the field should make the decision if he can make it here. Will he make it in the NFL?? Who knows but his immaturity will correct itself. Let his work on the field make the decision.
 

Stash

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Not really. They may have drafted the best player in the draft but GB drafted Rodgers at 24 when he fell into their laps. Before the draft started I guarantee you GB thought there was no chance Rodgers would still be there when GB was on the clock.

I'm sure they didn't. But they were smart enough to seize the opportunity add a franchise quarterback when it presented itself. I hope we are too.
 

KJJ

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Sure you are. You keep on telling yourself that.

:facepalm:

I'm being sensible and you're being ridiculous. You want to use the 4th overall pick on a QB then bring in a couple of Cleveland castoffs Colt McCoy and Johnny Knucklehead and have them battle it out for the backup job while our 4th overall pick is being kept in a ziplock bag for down the road. LOL This isn't a developmental project you just drafted it's a top 5 pick and if they can't even hold down the backup job as a rookie or aren't being given the opportunity to compete for it than you drafted the wrong QB.

Even as bizarre as some of the thinking is by some here you would have a tough time finding anyone who would be on board with your line of thinking. Aaron Rodgers said a few years ago a big part of his development was being the backup because he got some game reps and it kept him mentally prepared to step in if something happened to to Favre.
 

Manwiththeplan

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How mature were you at his age??? Did you mature???

starters, comparing me to someone who has that much money is not an apples to apples comparison, and with that being said, I never did half the things he did/does.
 

KJJ

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The Packers correctly identified and drafted the best player in the draft and sat him for several years because they're current quarterback was still playing well, but you hold on tight to that "Top 5" thing if it makes you feel better, OK?

Rodgers fell in the Packers lap in 05 they had no idea nor did anyone else that he would still be in the board at #24. Even nearing the draft some still thought he might go #1 overall and no later than the top 10. Favre had been hinting around about retiring for a couple of years so when Rodgers fell to the Packers they took him not only because they were preparing for life without Favre but because he was clearly the best player on the board. Even after drafting Rodgers they used a #2 pick on Brian Brohm 3 years later because he was highly rated and the Packers wanted to be sure they were covered at QB if Rodgers wasn't the answer. Some of the greatest QBs taken fell in the laps of some teams like Dan Marino falling to the Dolphins with the second to last pick in 83. They had no idea he would still be on the board at that spot but Don Shula said what the hell let's take him he was clearly the best player on the board. Drew Brees lasted to the first pick of the second round and turned out a lot better than Micheal Vick who was taken #1 overall.

Roger Staubach was a 10th round pick who hung around long enough for the Cowboys to say what the hell. Most of the QBs who've won SBs weren't top 10 picks. Brady and Montana have 8 SB wins between them and were drafted in the 3rd and 6th round. Show me a team that's taken a QB in the top 5 and sat them for several years? If they're sitting heading into year 2 of their career they usually can't play. Most of the top 5 QBs that have become successful either started as rookies or got some regular season reps by at least their second season and showed flashes. Steve McNair didn't start immediately but he got a number of regular season reps so he could develop. Teams don't store away QBs taken in the top 5 especially in todays game where salaries are so high. Even with a rookie cap top 5 picks still get paid good money and you have to get them on the field.


Again, you keep telling yourself that. Maybe you should stomp your feet while your at it too?

If you're getting frustrated with this discussion then move on you initiated it.


"A few snaps"? Wow! I stand corrected then, you truly showed me the error of my ways. I had no idea that those guys got "a few snaps". They must have been critical in both players' development and the true difference between their success or failure.

You claimed Rodgers didn't play as a rookie and you were wrong. Even being drafted at #24 he got regular season reps every season until he became the starter. All these QBs that are having success started as rookies or at least got some valuable game reps early on none were bubble wrapped for a few seasons. If a QB can play you should see the flashes right from the start. Even Romo showed flashes in his first training camp. Darren Woodson told Parcells Romo was the best QB on the team at that moment. He said it in a TV interview and in this article.

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d...rookie-he-was-already-the-best-qb-on-the-team



According to you they do. That's your opinion, not any of the "facts" you keep claiming to be bringing to this conversation.

You're actually refuting that many teams have ended up with franchise QBs taken after the top 10??? Dude, I'm providing you with a fact! LOL I've already pointed out several and can provide an entire list of them if you think I'm making it up. This discussion isn't helping your credibility any.
 

Beast_from_East

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The only way........and I mean the only way..........I would even consider bringing in Manzel if we absolutely have to go this route is if he agrees to the "Dez rules".

That means no alcohol, no gambling, no strip clubs, and 24 hour private security that follows him everywhere he goes. He does not take a piss without us knowing about it.

If he agrees to that, then maybe I consider a 1 year deal for league min with 0 guaranteed money. And I tell him that the first time he breaks the rules, he is gone with no questions asked.

That's my terms Johnny or Billy or whatever the hell your name is now.................take it or leave it.
 
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