Does anyone think JJ Wilcox will get benched?

[Zman5]

On the first, where you claim an overrun, Carter was inside. Wilcox's angle forced Britt back inside where Carter brainfarted and missed the tackle. That is precisely what I was referring to in my writeup about bad Bruce showing up early this game

Cook outweighs Wilcox by 40 lbs. If your take away from a play where a TE is on a S is to blame the S it makes me wonder what the front 7 are doing and how one of them is not free to the ball carrier seeing that the TE blocked a S. We went to a good amount of 12 personnel in the second half and you can watch Escobar dominate some S he has a similar weight advantage on.

The last play, I am quite certain that it was not cover 2. You can see Church drop to the middle of the field before he runs over to the sideline and Claiborne is ontop of Quick on the far side of the field. I don't know what the underneath coverage was but I am fairly confident that Wilcox was not over the top. Looked like cover 3. Carr got caught peaking and got beaten cleanly off the line.

You asked for plays where Wilcox is making bad plays. I provided them. And now you are making excuses for him.

Safeties are going to go against TEs and most NFL TEs are going to outweigh the safeties by good 30-40LBS. Wilcox is going to have to learn to not get pancaked blocked by TEs and bggerer WRs.

There is a reason why the TEs have done so well against us past 3 games. It's because of bad safety play. Specifically Wilcox. He isn't the only reason but he is one of the main reasons.

All the plays where Heath screwed up last year, we can make the same type of excuses you are making. Doe it make Heath any better? No.

It's laughable that some here think Heath is the worst NFL player ever yet Wilcox isn't that bad or even good.

Bottom line is both Wilcox and Heath suck right now and you can play either one of them and they'll both make bad plays for different reasons.

They do however, make enough good plays to give hope that they may both develop into a descent player with time. But let's not kid ourselves. Neither one should be starting right now.

 

[Zman5]

I'm certain you will find plays less than flattering on every player on both teams. That's football. Rarely if ever does even the brightest star play error free football.

The game has changed. Passing attempts, yardage, passing TDs, YPC, YAC, YPA, and A/YPA are all up significantly up in the last decade. Despite fewer attempts YPC and total run yardage are up. That's on every defense and defensive player in the league. Granted some players and more importantly some teams are better at limiting all that. As an aside I predict, which I don't normally do, that the brand of football Seattle's DBs and LBers play will be toned down some while the rest of the league plays catch up with schemes, style, and type of players.

Having said that, which is to mitigate some of the high expectations, we all see we've got a ways to go at safety and CB as well as getting settle at LB. In fact the entire defense is in catch up mode. There are only, at best, a few players on the team (active, PUP, or IR) who are talented enough to start on a contender. Lee, Durant, Carter, Church, Melton, Spencer, Ro and probably a few others TBD. There are enough more including those who are average to field a team that with a good offense can contend for the East; IMO. Beyond that we'll see what we'll see.

Read my post 101.

 

[conner01]

This is exactly the reason he shouldn't be starting right now. But the team seems to like throwing "trainees" into the fire without having proven themselves...

Forget fast and athletic. I want some football players.

And no, I'm not implying Heath would be better right now either

then your only option to to keep buying free agents. either you develope players or you pay for free agents. thats the only two options you have

 

[big dog cowboy]

I wouldn't be adverse to the team replacing Wilcox with Sterling Moore

I'm a little surprised that hasn't happened.

 

[Bullflop]

I'm a little surprised that hasn't happened.

No kidding -- it may take an act of Congress or something before the staff sees the handwriting on the wall.

 

[casmith07]

I can dig it.
I respect you as an honest and terrific poster.

I retract anything that might be construed as offensive.

I don't see eye-to-eye on that- I root for the team as it is playing the year it is playing, but I get honoring former players for the team that gave their all

Salute.

Obviously if we met the Broncos in the Super Bowl, then I would 100% hope to send Ware home without a ring

 

[casmith07]

I'm a little surprised that hasn't happened.

I don't even...

what?? Did nobody on this board learn anything from the Alan Ball experiment, first, and second, what???

 

[xwalker]

I'll give you a few.

First drive. He comes running in to tackle Stacy after a short completion. He over runs the play by good 4 yards and then turns around to chase after him.

Same drive. Run play to Stacy. He gets completely pancaked by Cook. Cook is standing over him while Wilcox is on his hands and knees on the turf. Cook took him to school, prison style.

Rams Second Drive. It looks like they are playing Cover 2. It's a play action, only the LBS and Wilcox bite on it but Wilcox bites on it the hardest and is slow to recover. Good thing the pass was over thrown because Britt has two steps on Carr with no safety help on that side due to Wilcox biting so hard on the play action.


This is all on just two drives. Once the coaches film comes out, I'm sure I'll find more.

Wilcox was not perfect, but it seems like you're looked for something to complain about with the plays that you picked out.

If you graded all NFL Safeties the way that you've graded Wilcox on these plays, then their success rate is going to be far below 100%.

1st Q, 11:46, 2nd and 8: Wilcox does slightly overrun the play, but Carter misses what should be a routine tackle.

1st Q, 10:52, 1st and 10: Cook blocks Wilcox. Wilcox ends up on the ground. The RB is tackled before he gets near Wilcox. I can’t tell from the camera angle, but it appears that Cook has his hands on Wilcox’s helmet.

1st Q, 2:03, 1st and 10: Play action, ball is thrown long on right sideline with Carr in coverage and Church will deep help responsibility. Wilcox has coverage responsibility for the intermediate area right of the hash-marks. Scandrick’s man is running free in the middle of the field because Scandrick fell down. I don’t think that was Wilcox’s responsibility with or without play-action.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

JJ Wilcox will be benched if a few things happen.

1.They feel another player on the team can do a better job.
2. He gets in trouble with the team (miss meetings for example)
3. He gets in trouble with the team and the league (failed drug test or dui for example)

Does not mean he should be the starter, does not mean he is a good player.
Just means at this point they think he is better than the other guys currently on the roster.

And we have been shown time and time again with this team that the...Anyone can do better so let's get rid of this guy or bench this guy, does not always pan out.

 

[xwalker]

JJ Wilcox will be benched if a few things happen.

1.They feel another player on the team can do a better job.
2. He gets in trouble with the team (miss meetings for example)
3. He gets in trouble with the team and the league (failed drug test or dui for example)

Does not mean he should be the starter, does not mean he is a good player.
Just means at this point they think he is better than the other guys currently on the roster.

And we have been shown time and time again with this team that the...Anyone can do better so let's get rid of this guy or bench this guy, does not always pan out.

If the Cowboys cut or bench all players that CZ members have requested to be cut, they would have these player remaining:

Fred
Martin
Ladouceur
Bailey

Add to it that if the CZ majority ruled, then neither Fred or Martin would have been drafted.

 

[Zman5]

Wilcox was not perfect, but it seems like you're looked for something to complain about with the plays that you picked out.

If you graded all NFL Safeties the way that you've graded Wilcox on these plays, then their success rate is going to be far below 100%.

1st Q, 11:46, 2nd and 8: Wilcox does slightly overrun the play, but Carter misses what should be a routine tackle.

1st Q, 10:52, 1st and 10: Cook blocks Wilcox. Wilcox ends up on the ground. The RB is tackled before he gets near Wilcox. I can’t tell from the camera angle, but it appears that Cook has his hands on Wilcox’s helmet.

1st Q, 2:03, 1st and 10: Play action, ball is thrown long on right sideline with Carr in coverage and Church will deep help responsibility. Wilcox has coverage responsibility for the intermediate area right of the hash-marks. Scandrick’s man is running free in the middle of the field because Scandrick fell down. I don’t think that was Wilcox’s responsibility with or without play-action.

Read the whole thread before making accusations. I was replying to a poster who asked to find bad plays by Wilcox and I did.

I wasn't "looking for something to complain".

BTW, until the coaches film comes out, no one can tell the coverage for the play at 1st Q, 2:03. Beginning of the play they are lined up as two deep and every DB drops straight back except Wilcox who bites hardest on the PA. Even more so than the LBs. He is the slowest to recover from the fake. Just because you see Church at the end of the play doesn't mean that was his responsibility. Beginning of the play he doesn't go to the middle of the field but drops almost straight back. If cover 3 was the call, then both Wilcox and Church is doing a lousy job at it. Cover 3 may have been called but as I said we won't know for sure until the coaches tape comes out.

 

[xwalker]

Read the whole thread before making accusations. I was replying to a poster who asked to find bad plays by Wilcox and I did.

I wasn't "looking for something to complain".

I did read the entire thread.

You indicated that Wilcox was bad but then selected plays that had a minimal impact on the game. All defensive players are going to have some less than perfect plays; otherwise, there would be a lot more games where offenses score Zero points.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You asked for plays where Wilcox is making bad plays. I provided them. And now you are making excuses for him.

Safeties are going to go against TEs and most NFL TEs are going to outweigh the safeties by good 30-40LBS. Wilcox is going to have to learn to not get pancaked blocked by TEs and bggerer WRs.

There is a reason why the TEs have done so well against us past 3 games. It's because of bad safety play. Specifically Wilcox. He isn't the only reason but he is one of the main reasons.

All the plays where Heath screwed up last year, we can make the same type of excuses you are making. Doe it make Heath any better? No.

It's laughable that some here think Heath is the worst NFL player ever yet Wilcox isn't that bad or even good.

Bottom line is both Wilcox and Heath suck right now and you can play either one of them and they'll both make bad plays for different reasons.

They do however, make enough good plays to give hope that they may both develop into a descent player with time. But let's not kid ourselves. Neither one should be starting right now.

Excuses are your paradigm. I don't think like that as I understand that I have no authority and I am a fan of living in the world as it is. This is not a reality where you get to hold players accountable and its real for everyone you talk to. There will never be reciprocity from players. Instead, are my arguments true?

Was there anyone outside of Bruce Carter had Wilcox not taken an angle to the sideline to take it away? Britt did step past Carter and inside of him within arms reach on that play. I will give you a hint: Claiborne was the only other guy on that side of the field and he was very blocked. Wilcox is the S and with a player out at the numbers you have to take away the sideline first.

I rewatched the game and could not find your Wilcox pancake in the first two series. I paid attention to Cook and watched him block down and pancake Mincey. I saw him drive block Wilber and Hitchens 10 yards. I saw Wilcox make a nice open field tackle on Stacey outside on a stretch play for no gain. I saw Stacey on the ground dodge Wilcox shoulder and Wilcox ended up hitting Hayden after a middle run. Which play are you talking about?

As for the last, you never argued that the look didn't have a single S high and Mo was playing over the top on the other side of the field. I will agree that I would have preferred Wilcox have better instincts to help there because Carr was cleanly beat peaking inside off the snap. Teammates need to help each other out in zone. There are other examples of Wilcox doing that this game though.

 

[Zman5]

I did read the entire thread.

You indicated that Wilcox was bad but then selected plays that had a minimal impact on the game. All defensive players are going to have some less than perfect plays; otherwise, there would be a lot more games where offenses score Zero points.

I chose those plays because I wasn't going to spend time looking at the whole game just to show the OP that Wilcox does make mistakes.

If you really did read the whole thread, you would have read that I will find more when the coaches film comes out. There is a reason TE have been killing us past three games and Wilcox is one of the main reasons.

 

[John813]

I don't think he'll be benched soon. I think the coaching staff is willing to go through the growing pains of having a green safety out there along side Church. They seem to like Wilcox, so unless he misses meetings or plays halfass out there, he'll be a starter.

If the Cowboys cut or bench all players that CZ members have requested to be cut, they would have these player remaining:

Fred
Martin
Ladouceur
Bailey

Add to it that if the CZ majority ruled, then neither Fred or Martin would have been drafted.

His name sounds funny. I want him off the team.

 

[Zman5]

I rewatched the game and could not find your Wilcox pancake in the first two series. I paid attention to Cook and watched him block down and pancake Mincey. I saw him drive block Wilber and Hitchens 10 yards. I saw Wilcox make a nice open field tackle on Stacey outside on a stretch play for no gain. I saw Stacey on the ground dodge Wilcox shoulder and Wilcox ended up hitting Hayden after a middle run. Which play are you talking about?

So me and XWalker both saw something that didn't happen in the game? OK.

You were calling out people who were not happy about Wilcox's play. You asked to provide example s from the game. I did and now you are making excuses or accusing me of making up stuff.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So me and XWalker both saw something that didn't happen in the game? OK.

You were calling out people who were not happy about Wilcox's play. You asked to provide example s from the game. I did and now you are making excuses or accusing me of making up stuff.

Me not finding it does not mean that it does not exist thus me asking for which play it was. xwalker was kind enough to provide that information. I am rewatching it now.

Cook is lined up wide and Wilcox is the corner. He takes Cook upfield on an apparent route and when Cook stops and Wilcox reads run he is already on top of him because of man coverage. You see how much bigger Cook is than Wilcox It had zero bearing on the play but I agree that Wilcox should have kept his feet.

Do you have something meaningful to criticize him for?

 

[Zman5]

Me not finding it does not mean that it does not exist thus me asking for which play it was. xwalker was kind enough to provide that information. I am rewatching it now.

Cook is lined up wide and Wilcox is the corner. He takes Cook upfield on an apparent route and when Cook stops and Wilcox reads run he is already on top of him because of man coverage. You see how much bigger Cook is than Wilcox It had zero bearing on the play but I agree that Wilcox should have kept his feet.

Do you have something meaningful to criticize him for?

I know Cook is bigger. As I responded to you before, most NFL TE is going to be 30-40LBS bigger than most NFL safeties. He needs to learn to not get pancaked by them if he wants be considered a good safety. No different than a LB who knows how to get off a block by an OLinemen who weights good 50+ lbs more than them.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I know Cook is bigger. As I responded to you before, most NFL TE is going to be 30-40LBS bigger than most NFL safeties. He needs to learn to not get pancaked by them if he wants be considered a good safety. No different than a LB who knows how to get off a block by an OLinemen who weights good 50+ lbs more than them.

It is man coverage. He carried Cook up the field which puts him in a very advantageous position. The 'block' happened at the spot 10 yards downfield where WR typically break on routes when Wilcox looks away from his man to find the ball he is right next to Cook.

If Wilcox wants to 'not get pancaked' then he needs to avoid TE and OL and beat them with quickness. I'm not going to argue that Wilcox shouldn't have done a better job keeping his feet but it just seems to me to miss the point of what went on right there. Now how many times do you think that Wilcox has played that outside corner position in his life?

 

[Zman5]

It is man coverage. He carried Cook up the field which puts him in a very advantageous position. The 'block' happened at the spot 10 yards downfield where WR typically break on routes when Wilcox looks away from his man to find the ball he is right next to Cook.

If Wilcox wants to 'not get pancaked' then he needs to avoid TE and OL and beat them with quickness. I'm not going to argue that Wilcox shouldn't have done a better job keeping his feet but it just seems to me to miss the point of what went on right there. Now how many times do you think that Wilcox has played that outside corner position in his life?

I didn't respond to your request to point out bad plays by Wilcox to find out why he made those bad plays. You ask to point out some of his bad plays and I did so by doing a quick rewatch of the game.

I know he is inexperienced and so is Heath. And again, as I posted previously, they both suck for different reasons now and need time to develop. I just think it's ridiculous that some people here praise Wilcox and make excuses for his bad plays yet Heath is the worse player ever.