Does Duckett Create Logjam for Commanders?

[Om]

extreme skins is as close to a police state of a message board as you get.

I have been denied there twice for a username and when i got one and simply posted that the cowboys were a much deeper team then the Commanders i got banned, outright banned

point:

I LOVE COWBOYSZONE

What were the 2 names that were denied, and was your user name when you posted?

 

[Gryphon]

byGeorge Winkler
August 23, 2006

I love it when a plan comes together. No, I'm not referring to the A-Team and George Peppard's famous line, though that TV show was awesome when I was a kid, but rather T.J. Duckett's move from Atlanta's second team to Washington's first team.

I love it when a trade comes together because it means plenty for fantasy owners to digest. On Tuesday night, the Falcons traded Duckett to the Commanders in a three-team deal that netted Atlanta disgruntled wide receiver Ashley Lelie and sent Denver a 2007 third-round pick.

For Duckett, it means he could be carrying the mail for Washington in Week 1 if Clinton Portis' shoulder injury isn't sufficiently healed. Since Duckett had no chance to start ahead of Warrick Dunn in Atlanta, the move to Washington represents a boost in his short-term value. However, Ducket has never had a full-time No. 1 role, so it remains questionable whether he can handle it.

No, the biggest story here is that the Commanders clearly are not as confident in Portis returning soon or Ladell Betts filling the No. 1 role as they originally let on. I avoided Portis in our recent experts league draft, where I picked Edgerrin James No. 6 overall. I'm glad I did, because I also read all the reports that suggested Portis owners "handcuff" Betts to Portis later in the draft. Right now, it looks like both of those picks could hurt.

You might be wondering where I think Portis should go in a draft in light of the Duckett trade. My best advice is to let him go to someone else. That way you don't have to worry about this situation.

 

[skinsngibbs4life]

I am sorry Commanders fans but the only way you guys are gonna get any depth is to have open try outs. I live in DC and a majority of the Skins fans hate the trade, many are fed up with the mortgaging the future for questionable talent, what I mean by questionable is players that are not in the upper echelon production wise because they do have a lot of talent, just underacheiving.

I think most would agree with you, well, at least me for that matter. It is starting to get really old having 1 or 2 draft picks on the first day every year. Part of me thinks that this is just gibbs trying to get a winning team soon so he can get out while still having a well established name. But then again, we have been doing this for years, so who knows...

 

[Om]

I am sorry Commanders fans but the only way you guys are gonna get any depth is to have open try outs. I live in DC and a majority of the Skins fans hate the trade, many are fed up with the mortgaging the future for questionable talent, what I mean by questionable is players that are not in the upper echelon production wise because they do have a lot of talent, just underacheiving. Good Ole doc Walker up here thinks this was a trade that was made to block Philly from getting dickett, that was pretty expensive considering from what I hear it is 2 draft picks. Using this trade as a barometer we could have at least got a 6th for henson.

I live in DC too, and the assertion that a "majority of the Skins fans hate the trade" is flat ludicrous. Skins fans, like the rest of humanity, have differing opinions on things. Surprise surprise. I'll ask you the same thing I've been asking the soap-boxers and armchair GM's among my own fan base ... how about quantifying "majority" and "hate" for us? If you've done a poll or survey, I'd love to see it.

And while you're at it, if you don't mind and are in this for actual discussion instead of just making blanket meatless bone statements, can you also quantify specifically what players and what it took to get them and pay them that you're talking about with your "mortgaging the future for marginal talent" gem?

Due respect, but as stated to far it sounds like run-of-the-mill regurgitation of chesty, rival fan MB talk. Prove me wrong.

 

[Wheat]

I'm in DC also.

I'd say its a 80/20 split in favor of the trade.

I'm on the 20 side. still not sure what's happening here.

 

[Om]

I'm in DC also.

I'd say its a 80/20 split in favor of the trade.

I'm on the 20 side. still not sure what's happening here.

Sure you do.

Portis and Betts have health concerns. The Skins, like most other NFL teams, didn't happen to have a 3rd potential starting RB on their roster. They were uncomfortable gambling on one or both being available for 16 games.

They also lacked a hammer for the Gibbs/Saunders offense. Lots of speed, no classic power back for short yardage who can ALSO see extended duty in the full offense if called upon. TJ Duckett was available, and Gibbs/Saunders think they see hammer potential there as well as a viable insurance policy.

So TJ's a Commander and the team has another option and feature they didn't have before to help solidify what they think is a legit playoff contender.

I'm sure some of the more strident anti-Skins Cowboy fans here will find all kinds of angles to try to ridicule that, but as someone who actually follows the Skins as closely as you do, I'm sure you'll agree it's probably really not any more complicated than that.

 

[SkinRamon]

I also think this was a dumb move if we want to trade Betts, as trading for Duckett obviously shows that there is no faith Betts can carry the load of a number 1 back.

Betts has never even dressed for 16 games his whole career.

And he's a backup.

What does that say?

Duckett can get it done as a back up and has a proven track record of doing so.

Mike Sellers is not a running back. He is a fullback. Let him just stick to blocking.

Betts is a fragile little biatch who, I repeat, while serving as a backup, has never dressed an entire season. How the hell can you rely on a guy like that if Portis is out?

Duckett is an upgrade for the #2 spot, no question about it.

 

[apickmans]

Sure you do.

Portis and Betts have health concerns. The Skins, like most other NFL teams, didn't happen to have a 3rd potential starting RB on their roster. They were uncomfortable gambling on one or both being available for 16 games.

They also lacked a hammer for the Gibbs/Saunders offense. Lots of speed, no classic power back for short yardage who can ALSO see extended duty in the full offense if called upon. TJ Duckett was available, and Gibbs/Saunders think they see hammer potential there as well as a viable insurance policy.

So TJ's a Commander and the team has another option and feature they didn't have before to help solidify what they think is a legit playoff contender.

I'm sure some of the more strident anti-Skins Cowboy fans here will find all kinds of angles to try to ridicule that, but as someone who actually follows the Skins as closely as you do, I'm sure you'll agree it's probably really not any more complicated than that.

well said.

 

[Wheat]

Sure you do.

Portis and Betts have health concerns. The Skins, like most other NFL teams, didn't happen to have a 3rd potential starting RB on their roster. They were uncomfortable gambling on one or both being available for 16 games.

They also lacked a hammer for the Gibbs/Saunders offense. Lots of speed, no classic power back for short yardage who can ALSO see extended duty in the full offense if called upon. TJ Duckett was available, and Gibbs/Saunders think they see hammer potential there as well as a viable insurance policy.

So TJ's a Commander and the team has another option and feature they didn't have before to help solidify what they think is a legit playoff contender.

I'm sure some of the more strident anti-Skins Cowboy fans here will find all kinds of angles to try to ridicule that, but as someone who actually follows the Skins as closely as you do, I'm sure you'll agree it's probably really not any more complicated than that.

No, really. I'm still not crazy about this.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[kmd24]

The thing that would bother me the most about the trade is that the prospect of swapping first round picks is very real. If the Skins miss the playoffs (not necessary probable, but very possible), and the Broncos make at least the AFCCG again, the Skins could be going from a pick in the 18-20 range to a pick in the 29-32 range. That can be a huge difference in terms of getting an impact player, particularly along the OL or maybe at CB, two areas where the Skins seemingly need to think about adding depth in the long term.

Duckett is a solid player, but incrementally, he doesn't add a whole lot to the team. If this is the Skins' year and Duckett saves their bacon in a couple of spots along the way, then the trade will be more than worth it. If the Skins come up short (especially if it's well short), most fans will second guess this move come April 2007, I think.

 

[TobiasEagle77]

He has value and is in the last year of his contract.

Is it just me, or is there a contradiction here. Guys in the last year of their contract don't hold alot of value (for most teams, the Skins are a different story, they'll trade half their draft for this type)

 

[superpunk]

no classic power back for short yardage who can ALSO see extended duty in the full offense if called upon.

If only they had actually gotten that in Duckett. :

 

[Idgit]

Sure you do.

Portis and Betts have health concerns. The Skins, like most other NFL teams, didn't happen to have a 3rd potential starting RB on their roster. They were uncomfortable gambling on one or both being available for 16 games.

They also lacked a hammer for the Gibbs/Saunders offense. Lots of speed, no classic power back for short yardage who can ALSO see extended duty in the full offense if called upon. TJ Duckett was available, and Gibbs/Saunders think they see hammer potential there as well as a viable insurance policy.

So TJ's a Commander and the team has another option and feature they didn't have before to help solidify what they think is a legit playoff contender.

I'm sure some of the more strident anti-Skins Cowboy fans here will find all kinds of angles to try to ridicule that, but as someone who actually follows the Skins as closely as you do, I'm sure you'll agree it's probably really not any more complicated than that.

Reasonable enough assessment. A strident Cowboy fan might ask why your management chose to carry two primary running backs into the season if they couldn't trust that either of them would actually be available when they needed them. It's not like the prospect of an extended injury to Portis had never been considered; Cowboy fans have been pointing to that on these boards for months now, based off of how much Gibbs overuses him.

In any event, you lose something every play you have Ducket in there in place of Portis. You *might* gain something by having him in there in place of Betts. I don't think you do, but that's because I like Betts.

No matter what, though, if you thought you had a liability at backup RB where Betts is concerned, you should have made a move much earlier in the offseason when backs like Shaun Alexander and E. James were reportedly available for 2nd round picks (not that you had managed your cap well enough to target either of these guys. I mention this only as a guauge of how much of a premium you had to pay now).

What you gave up this week for TJ Duckett was absurd, and is the result of poor decision making at the top of your organization.

 

[NIBGoldenchild]

Don't know, I was given a 2 week suspension for angrily suggesting that the Cowboys are getting a greater dividend with a smaller investment in their wide receiving corps then we are.

Which mod did it?

EDIT: Nevermind.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

2006 Portis, Betts, Duckett, Rock=

1991 Byner, Ervins, Riggs, Mitchell

You have your feature back (Byner, Portis), primary back up (Betts, Ervins), big goal line, short yardage back (Duckett, Riggs) and special teamer (Mitchell, Rock Cartwright)

Is it a move I would make? Nope

But it gives depth in a spot that needed it. Portis was hurt against Seattle last year in the playoffs, Betts has never shown him to be healthy, and while Rock has plenty of heart and is a great character guy, he just isn't someone you want to rely on to get you 25-30 carries in a game

I don't make this move, but I see the logic with regards to depth and injuries

 

[Om]

Reasonable enough assessment. A strident Cowboy fan might ask why your management chose to carry two primary running backs into the season if they couldn't trust that either of them would actually be available when they needed them. It's not like the prospect of an extended injury to Portis had never been considered; Cowboy fans have been pointing to that on these boards for months now, based off of how much Gibbs overuses him.

In any event, you lose something every play you have Ducket in there in place of Portis. You *might* gain something by having him in there in place of Betts. I don't think you do, but that's because I like Betts.

What you neglect to consider is that when they went "into the season," both Portis AND Betts were healthy. You may recall that last season that combination fared relatively well? Since week one of preseason, however, Portis has been hurt--in such a way that may limit him on and off all year--and Betts has gotten nicked as well, while also, for the first time, seemingly taking a bit more active interest in talking about money and playing time.

In your world, given your lead back sustaining a shoulder injury that could limit his effectiveness to some unknown degree all year, and a second guy who's capable but with a bit of a history of being nicked ... you'd stand pat? I hope the Cowboys hire you.

No matter what, though, if you thought you had a liability at backup RB where Betts is concerned, you should have made a move much earlier in the offseason when backs like Shaun Alexander and E. James were reportedly available for 2nd round picks (not that you had managed your cap well enough to target either of these guys. I mention this only as a guauge of how much of a premium you had to pay now).

What you gave up this week for TJ Duckett was absurd, and is the result of poor decision making at the top of your organization.

Your strident opinion is noted.

So is this guy's:

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2006/08/duckett-lelie-trade230806.html#comments

Commanders' Duckett deal a brilliant decision
By Connor J. Byrne
August 23, 2006 12:42 AM

Late Monday night, the Washington Commanders made a trade that could end up propelling them to great things in 2006. In a three-way deal, the Commanders acquired hulking running back T.J. Duckett from the Atlanta Falcons for a third-round pick. The Falcons then dealt that choice to the Denver Broncos for disgruntled receiver Ashley Lelie.

Lelie is arguably the biggest name in the trade, but it's Duckett who will make the highest impact this season. The 6-foot, 254-pounder has become one of the National Football League's foremost short-yardage backs in his four pro seasons, scoring 31 career touchdowns. The ex-first-rounder from Michigan State split time with between-the-tackles runner Warrick Dunn in those years, never rushing for more than 779 yards in an individual season.

Following three straight solid seasons backing up Dunn for the Falcons, Duckett's numbers sunk to career-worst levels in '05. He gained just 380 ground yards on 3.1 yards per carry. However, he was a solid red-zone option, scoring eight touchdowns. The 25-year-old's career-best TD season is 2003, when he had 11.

This big-time, late-summer trade was an outstanding decision by the Commanders' brain trust, led by owner Dan Snyder, VP of football operations Vinny Cerrato and Hall of Fame head coach Joe Gibbs (in no particular order). In its first preseason game, Washington lost star running back Clinton Portis to a dislocated shoulder. Since that fateful Aug. 13 evening, Portis has been a prominent opponent of exhibition games, chiding their worth.

The soon-to-be 25-year-old, who rushed for 1,516 yards last year, is expected to return to the Commanders' lineup by their Sept. 11 season opener against the Minnesota Vikings . If not, though, Duckett will be, without question, able to carry the load for however long he has to.

With a healthy Portis and a bruising Duckett in the fold, the 'Skins' rushing attack may, in fact, be second to none in the league. Portis brings speed and explosiveness to Washington's above-average offensive attack, while Duckett will represent a tremendous No. 2 with a nose for the opposing end zone.

More importantly, however, Duckett will displace fifth-year man Ladell Betts as the main option behind Portis. Betts is a decent runner, but he doesn't bring nearly the goal-line ability as Duckett, since he carries a frame that weighs a whopping 31 less pounds.

In the end, this is yet another smart trade by the Washington Commanders ' brass. Rather than utilize a third-rounder in next April's draft on an unproven, green player, they went out and acquired a proven commodity with the ability of a starter for the same value. This deal could further separate the Commanders from their counterparts in the grueling '06 version of the NFC East.

--Connor J. Byrne can be reached at cbyrne@realfootball365.com.