Dog Fights - adults only please?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why...so it could fit into your argument?

There seems to be a difference between someone that did it years ago and feels bad about yet comes clean as opposed to someone who seems to still not only be doing it but promoting it.

Dude I don't get you at all UNLESS you are just playing devils advocate.

Some of the comparisons you make are kind of silly.

However I am not going to fray any further into your arguments because you have either already made up your mind and anyone saying any different is just going to promote more of your own views OR as I said you are just playing devils advocate and doing it for fun.

Either way I think it is kind of silly to compare one thing to another and in doing so in some offbeat way trying to legitimize it. Two wrongs do not make a right in this situation.

No im just referring to all the people that talk about how people that go to dogshows hsould be shunned for what they consider a most heinous crime.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

I might consider it but I have to also consider he may just be talking about a dream he had once. :laugh2:

Funny, as I am getting old.....and my wife says I forget things.....but, it is true......I did it.....not alot....but way to much. :bang2:

 

[deadrody]

First, these are valid questions especially if you have never been to a dog fight. If you have and you like animals such as dogs then you will be repulsed.

Second, having served six tours in VietNam and knowing that in Asia dog is considered something of a cherish dish of food, you end up with a different perspective.

To answer your questions:
1. Dog fights are usually more brutal. Both the dogs and roosters are trained to fight for these spectacals. Dog fights generally last longer and there is far more blood. Some fights are so bad that the dogs have actually gone after humans (that would be you) instead of just the other dog.

2. I too have been to a couple of bull fights and although it is considered a humane sport, watching an animal being basically teased to death is painful. But they do die a much less painful death than dogs and there (believe it or not) rules in a bull fight.

3. Natural carnage is nothing like any of the above. Those animals aren't trained to fight, they fight for survival and for food. It is not for sport that they fight but for their basic survival instinct and for their species to survive in producing strong lines.

4. Yes you are correct about pork and beef but again they are raised to feed us and they are slaughtered by supposed humane ways. That may be debatable but they are slaughtered without fanfare and quickly. Dog fights are where dogs keep trying to kill each other until one of them just dies and then still unless the other dog is pulled off, the surviving dog will keep tearing at the dead dog. It is not fun to watch if you have any sense of decent behavior.

There is a reason dog fights are a felony and for that matter many states have cock fights under the same law. They just are not humane and no matter how anyone spins it, it is against the law. Personally, it is a sport where I wish they would throw the dog owners in the ring and see how they fare and feel.

Sounds like a fist-ful of rationalizations to me. Dog fighting is wrong, it's illegal, and I agree that it should be. But there ARE people on this board going way, way overboard in condemning people they don't know about incidents with which they are no more than casually familiar. Worst of all is that they are relying on the media, who would screw up a story on the color of the sky, for the "facts" upon which their condemnation is based.

Frankly, they look like fools, and the original questions and the subsequent answers were a perfect opportunity for them to look that way yet again.

 

[YosemiteSam]

1) Are dog fights worse than say chicken fights?

Nope, they're both bad.

2) Are dog fights worse than bull fights? I saw one in Barcelona and I have never seen anything so brutal.

Same thing, they are both bad and I can never to validate carnage at the expense of entertainment.

3) I just saw the planet earth special..Why are dog fights worse than the natural carnage that happens every day in the animal kingdom?

One is entertainment, the other is survival.

4) Many of us had cows or pigs for dinner last night...

Again, survival. You will see when they put down the animals and it's not done properly people become up in arms about it.

Is it the idea that people are betting, the idea that people find this entertaining, or is it that so many people are attached to dogs as pets and relate to it from that perspective?

Personally, I think they should throw them in a ring with the animals and see how they like it...

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Funny, as I am getting old.....and my wife says I forget things.....but, it is true......I did it.....not alot....but way to much. :bang2:

Well although I don't recall saying all people should be shunned for such activities I will have to rip on you anyways just to make some people feel better for their arguments.

So...YOU ARE A DEBIL! MAY A THOUSAND FLEAS OF A CAMEL INFEST YOUR BUMHOLE!

So there...you have been chastised. :

 

[YosemiteSam]

Approx 20 years ago, I attended dog fights, chicken fights and when I lived in Madrid I attended numerous bull fights. I enjoyed all of them because of the gambling aspect. I did not gamble on the bull fights.

Now that I am more mature, I can see where this is cruel for the animals involved. It is brutal as the chickens, dogs and bulls die. I can understand why law makers are against these activities...........

Again, I am not proud of the fact I attended and enjoyed these activities, but it does feel good to come clean about them........GO COWBOYS!

Yeah, and now I bet you go to Cowboys training camp and watch the carnage of young Cowboys draftees and undrafted free agents getting massacred on the practice field. Shame on you, shame shame! May you burn in the UFL.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Yeah, and now I bet you go to Cowboys training camp and watch the carnage of young Cowboys draftees and undrafted free agents getting massacred on the practice field. Shame on you, shame shame! May you burn in the UFL.

hey, Hey, HEY!!!

We can curse him with fleas in the backside, we can call him the debil and we can say Shame on you all we want.

However cursing him to burn in the UFL may be taking it a tad far...AFL may be acceptable but UFL is a little overboard.

:laugh1:

 

[deadrody]

If Vick is guilty of this, he should never play another down in the NFL IMO, and I'm sure there are others that are holding their breath over what happens to him.

I think this statement pretty much sums up every single one of these threads.

I find the notion that if Mike Vick had knowledge of dogfighting on his property, that he should be banned from the NFL for life to be laughable. That is flat out ridiculous. If you want want to make it blanket policy that anytime a player is convicted of a crime above a traffic ticket or misdemeanor in the NFL, that they should be banned for life, great. But to single out dogfighting, and probably at worst willful ignorance of what his friends / family were doing at his property as lifetime banning material is ludicrous.

I think that is what is making this such an issue. Dogfighting is wrong and illegal, but worthy of banning someone from playing football ? The point Fuzzy is really making is that since there are other forms of animal cruelty that we allow, and frankly, I couldn't care less about the cow or chicken I had for lunch yesterday, but killing that animal is moderately less offensive than dogfighting, especially if you ask someone that is deeply active in PETA, for example. Yet nobody would be calling for a lifetime ban of Mike Vick if he owned a meat packing plant or ran a rodeo or circus. And that wouldn't change even if it were KNOWN that his plant used blunt force to kill the animals.

 

[Hostile]

Its funny you are the only person that i have i heard put a reasonable argument against dogfighting other than the 'its illegal' or 'i love my dogs.'

if anyone could present anything that showing that dogfighting caused people to be more violent or something of that sort i would be 100% against it.

How about greed, illegal gambling, and promotion of violence?

As for it being illegal, it wasn't illegal for many years. Do you think it's only illegal now because of an activist group? It was made illegal because it is senseless. Is this what our society needs, more avenues of senseless violence?

It isn't about the dogs for me. It's about right and wrong. Yes, I have focused on the illegality of it. That should end the discussion in my mind. In the minds of some it shouldn't and I honestly can't understand why not. I can't even fathom that. To me it is easily the most compelling reason not to condone these activities.

I have no issues with some forms of illegal gambling. Hell as a teen I drag raced cars with my friends and we always had something on the line besides winning and losing. I've played weekly football pools and fantasy football leagues where money was involved. I have never placed on money on the possible death of an animal. That is crossing the line from entertainment into barbary.

In his book "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" Edward Gibbon outlined 5 things that led to the crumbling of that mighty nation. One of them was the desire for bloody forms of "amusement." Hence the throwing of the Christians to the lions, and slaves fighting to the death. This is just an extension of that last one. These animals are bred to be slaves to bloodlust. To satiate a sanguinary palate and greed.

Greed is fed by violence.

 

[burmafrd]

dog fighting is simply a horrible thing. I challenge those who say otherwise to watch some of the footage that has made the rounds on various sites. Do a search and watch some of it. If that does not turn your stomach, and make you think that anyone involved willingly in it does not deserve to be made to pay a very high price, then you have no soul.

 

[AtlCB]

I am actually looking for mature responses here(put down the flame gun). I am not being a smart*** while asking the following questions? I have never been or ever would be interested in dog fights, but I am having a hard time understanding the universal outrage.

1) Are dog fights worse than say chicken fights?
2) Are dog fights worse than bull fights? I saw one in Barcelona and I have never seen anything so brutal.
3) I just saw the planet earth special..Why are dog fights worse than the natural carnage that happens every day in the animal kingdom?
4) Many of us had cows or pigs for dinner last night...

Is it the idea that people are betting, the idea that people find this entertaining, or is it that so many people are attached to dogs as pets and relate to it from that perspective?

I think the biggest reason that I am so appauled is that the killing is so senseless. I have concern for animals and eat very little meat. I am even considering going vegan. With that said, I'm shocked that you cannot see the difference between dog fighting and your other examples:
#1 - Both are equally reprehensible in my eyes.
#2 - See #1
#3 - Many horrible things occur between animals in the wild. We cannot control them. We can only control our actions.
#4 - I don't agree how many animals are treated or killed in farms, but the animals are killed for food and not entertainment.

I also know many hunters and dislike some of them. My stance on hunting is that hunting should be legal only if the hunter intends to eat the animal that they are hunting.

Killing just for entertainment is senseless and WRONG. When animals are killed for food or science, we begin to enter into a gray area. I hope this answers your questions about how a lot of people feel about this issue.

There are also examples where animals are killed for food and entertainment. These examples are also wrong. I saw a video once where people beat a poor monkey to death to eat its brains. This was one of the most repulsive things I have ever seen. My point is that animals shouldn't be killed for entertainment purposes.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I think this statement pretty much sums up every single one of these threads.

I find the notion that if Mike Vick had knowledge of dogfighting on his property, that he should be banned from the NFL for life to be laughable. That is flat out ridiculous. If you want want to make it blanket policy that anytime a player is convicted of a crime above a traffic ticket or misdemeanor in the NFL, that they should be banned for life, great. But to single out dogfighting, and probably at worst willful ignorance of what his friends / family were doing at his property as lifetime banning material is ludicrous.

I think that is what is making this such an issue. Dogfighting is wrong and illegal, but worthy of banning someone from playing football ?

Well, the NFL has to ask themselves what type of people do they want representing the NFL. Prolifirators of violence? I would be much more willing to forgive someone smoking dope in the NFL than someone who actively supports violent activites; especially activites that result in a death. If someone is convicted of murder, they would be ban for life in the NFL. Of course, they would spend so much time in jail that the ban would be a waste of time.

 

[YosemiteSam]

How about greed, illegal gambling, and promotion of violence?

As for it being illegal, it wasn't illegal for many years. Do you think it's only illegal now because of an activist group? It was made illegal because it is senseless. Is this what our society needs, more avenues of senseless violence?

It isn't about the dogs for me. It's about right and wrong. Yes, I have focused on the illegality of it. That should end the discussion in my mind. In the minds of some it shouldn't and I honestly can't understand why not. I can't even fathom that. To me it is easily the most compelling reason not to condone these activities.

I have no issues with some forms of illegal gambling. Hell as a teen I drag raced cars with my friends and we always had something on the line besides winning and losing. I've played wekly football pools and fantasy football leagues where money was involved. I have never placed on money on the possible death of an animal.

In his book "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" Edward Gibbon outlined 5 things that led to the crumbling of that mighty nation. One of them was the desire for bloody forms of "amusement." Hence the throwing of the Christians to the lions, and slaves fighting to the death. This is just an extension of that last one. These animals are bred to be slaves to bloodlust. To satiate a sanguinary palate and greed.

Greed is fed by violence.

:worthy: All excellent points.

 

[Vintage]

God, I could go for a bacon cheeseburger right about now...

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

God, I could go for a bacon cheeseburger right about now...

That is just not fair.

Bacon is one of those things that you just lose track of everything else when you see it, smell it or hear about it.

Sue me, kill the pig for my bacon and I won't shed a tear.

Then again while stationed in Korea I probably ate dog and never knew it.

 

[Vintage]

That is just not fair.

Bacon is one of those things that you just lose track of everything else when you see it, smell it or hear about it.

Sue me, kill the pig for my bacon and I won't shed a tear.

Then again while stationed in Korea I probably ate dog and never knew it.

I know. Tell me about it.

Bacon alone makes me a non vegetarian. I don't know how people can smell bacon and say "nah, I'll take the salad."

Beer and Bacon Cheeseburgers..........a slice of heaven, if you will.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Then again while stationed in Korea I probably ate dog and never knew it.

Well, it's a dog eat dog world out there; so I'm sure you did.

 

[theogt]

Just curious, what rights or special treatment do you believe I gave to dogs?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Hostile]

I know. Tell me about it.

Bacon alone makes me a non vegetarian. I don't know how people can smell bacon and say "nah, I'll take the salad."

Beer and Bacon Cheeseburgers..........a slice of heaven, if you will.

Out here they make Sonoran style hot dogs. They wrap hot dogs with bacon holding them in place with toothpicks. Then fry the bacon and cook the hot dog. Then, instead of mustard or ketchup they add some beans and grilled onions and peppers. They usually grill a jalapeno too and you can add grated cheese, pico de gallo, or guacamole to top it off.

The bacon makes it work. Great stuff.

 

[theogt]

You can wrap anything in bacon and it's great. Scallops, shrimp, I even had a head of lettuce that was bacon wrapped once. Bacon is a magical thing.