Dog Fights - adults only please?

[5Stars]

When's the last time you had dog for dinner?

A few years back I took a dog out for dinner! Her name was Nancy...later on that night she was howling...(if you know what i mean).

 

[AbeBeta]

I like veal.

I feel I'm pretty ethical animal rights-wise. Not extreme but concerned. I avoid factory produced meat, buy free range and grass-fed products from local sellers who I know are treating the animals respectfully, etc. That stuff really does taste better -- just blows the grocery store stuff away.

However, I can't help it. Veal is damn tasty. Suckling pig too. I got a weakness for baby animals.

 

[jobberone]

Relating humans fighting to the death and animals fighting to the death isn't a good argument in my opinion.

I understand what you are trying to say, but your argument loses something when you try and make that the main premise.

I used it for a reason. Humans put dogs into a pit to fight to the death. He asked why not. I asked him to step into the place of the dog so he'd see why it is so bad. Would he put two humans in a pit to fight to the death? If not then why put two dogs (insert anything here)?

I'm sorry it offended you. I see no reason to be ashamed of using it that way.

 

[theogt]

I used it for a reason. Humans put dogs into a pit to fight to the death. He asked why not. I asked him to step into the place of the dog so he'd see why it is so bad. Would he put two humans in a pit to fight to the death? If not then why put two dogs (insert anything here)?

I'm sorry it offended you. I see no reason to be ashamed of using it that way.

Human != dogs.

Bad analogy.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I believe I'm in the "There are far bigger issues in the world right now than dog fighting" crowd

People need to get over it

 

[Seven]

However, I can't help it. Veal is damn tasty. Suckling pig too. I got a weakness for baby animals.

Wrong site, pal. BTW....we had a fire chief down here get arrested for that.

 

[Hostile]

I believe I'm in the "There are far bigger issues in the world right now than dog fighting" crowd

People need to get over it

Nope. I just checked.

You don't tell me what to express my disgust at. I guess you'll have to get over that.

 

[jobberone]

Human != dogs.

Bad analogy.

I didn't ask him OR you to equate dogs with humans. Here you go being argumentative and difficult for its own sake again. I know you're intelligent enough to understand my previous post without piling on.

You're not still upset at my asking you the other day if you were intentionally being difficult? Because it's obvious you are doing so now.

 

[theogt]

I didn't ask him OR you to equate dogs with humans. Here you go being argumentative and difficult for its own sake again. I know you're intelligent enough to understand my previous post without piling on.

You're not still upset at my asking you the other day if you were intentionally being difficult? Because it's obvious you are doing so now.

You asked, if X, then why not Y?

X != Y. That's your answer.

By the way, when I asked if you were being sarcastic, it was a joke. Because you were saying that tone of voice is hard to discern on the internet. Oh never mind...

 

[jobberone]

You asked, if X, then why not Y?

X != Y. That's your answer.

By the way, when I asked if you were being sarcastic, it was a joke. Because you were saying that tone of voice is hard to discern on the internet. Oh never mind...

Again, I wasn't being sarcastic the other day. But I know within a reasonable degree of certainty you are a very intelligent guy. So I know you understood what I was saying despite the last two posts to the contrary.

But enough of bickering. Obviously I've been too opinionated of late so I apologize to any who have been truly offended or annoyed.

 

[theogt]

Again, I wasn't being sarcastic the other day. But I know within a reasonable degree of certainty you are a very intelligent guy. So I know you understood what I was saying despite the last two posts to the contrary.

But enough of bickering. Obviously I've been too opinionated of late so I apologize to any who have been truly offended or annoyed.

I know you weren't being sarcastic. That was the joke.

In any event, here's what I was responding to in this thread:

Would he put two humans in a pit to fight to the death? If not then why put two dogs (insert anything here)?

To me that looks like you're saying, if X, then why not Y?

In other words, if you'll do (or won't do) some thing, then why not do (or not do) another thing?

In this case, it's if you'll not put humans in a fight to the death, why would you put dogs in a fight to the death?

Where am I going wrong?

 

[jobberone]

I know you weren't being sarcastic. That was the joke.

In any event, here's what I was responding to in this thread:

To me that looks like you're saying, if X, then why not Y?

In other words, if you'll do (or won't do) some thing, then why not do (or not do) another thing?

In this case, it's if you'll not put humans in a fight to the death, why would you put dogs in a fight to the death?

Where am I going wrong?

If you really need it spelled out which you really don't.

Don't make anyone else do something you wouldn't want done to you. Or do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

Anyone who needs someone to explain that putting two animals that revere and obey humans so readily as dogs do into a pit to fight until one is dead is inhumane, hideous and completely immoral needs to be talked to just like this. I'm stupid for ever commenting in return. What the hell was I thinking.

And goodnite to all.

 

[theogt]

If you really need it spelled out which you really don't.

Don't make anyone else do something you wouldn't want done to you. Or do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

I eat beef. I wouldn't want to be eaten. I'm not going to stop eating beef.

Anyone who needs someone to explain that putting two animals that rever and obey humans so readily as dogs do into a pit to fight until one is dead is inhumane, hideous and completely immoral needs to be talked to just like this. I'm stupid for ever commenting in return. What the hell was I thinking.

I never said it wasn't inhumane, but your comparison to humans fighting was ridiculous.

And goodnite to all.

Later, gator.

 

[Viper]

I’ve gained admiration for fuzzy, he attempts to reason his thoughts out in a rational way. I can absolutely understand how he compares the treatment of one animal to another. I may not agree with his total thought process; however I do understand his reasoning.

Why do I think dog fighting is wrong? I believe it’s wrong because of the bloodlust involved in the act. This action is despised by me because of the evil implications surrounding the act itself and the influence it might have on weak minded people. The only reasonable rationalization for having a dog fight is to satisfy certain individuals’ lust for blood. This in itself is worrisome.

It isn’t the dog in itself that has me bothered. If they were killed for food the way we kill other animals for food I would be able to accept the act. In India cows are sacred; here they are used for food. In other countries dogs are food, here they are pets. Don’t get me wrong, I have two dogs that I love dearly. Yet, if one of them attacked an individual I would not hesitate putting my animal down. It would devastate me, but I wouldn’t take a chance in my dog hurting another person.

As a society, when we kill an animal we attempt to kill the animal in the most humane way possible. Killing animals for food, clothing, testing or protection is acceptable to me because it does benefit the society we live in. Killing animals just to kill is unacceptable to me. I would place dog fighting in the final category.

 

[theogt]

I’ve gained admiration for fuzzy, he attempts to reason his thoughts out in a rational way. I can absolutely understand how he compares the treatment of one animal to another. I may not agree with his total thought process; however I do understand his reasoning.

Why do I think dog fighting is wrong? I believe it’s wrong because of the bloodlust involved in the act. This action is despised by me because of the evil implications surrounding the act itself and the influence it might have on weak minded people. The only reasonable rationalization for having a dog fight is to satisfy certain individuals’ lust for blood. This in itself is worrisome.

It isn’t the dog in itself that has me bothered. If they were killed for food the way we kill other animals for food I would be able to accept the act. In India cows are sacred; here they are used for food. In other countries dogs are food, here they are pets. Don’t get me wrong, I have two dogs that I love dearly. Yet, if one of them attacked an individual I would not hesitate putting my animal down. It would devastate me, but I wouldn’t take a chance in my dog hurting another person.

As a society, when we kill an animal we attempt to kill the animal in the most humane way possible. Killing animals for food, clothing, testing or protection is acceptable to me because it does benefit the society we live in. Killing animals just to kill is unacceptable to me. I would place dog fighting in the final category.

Just my opinion, but I think you started out really nice with the blood lust part, but the ending with the rights-like language threw me off.

I think there are two compelling reasons for banning dog-fighting.

1. Potential harm from the animals (not to the animals).
2. Potentially negative psychological effect on humans. Sort of a desensitization to or enhancement of blood lust.

I don't think there's a single compelling argument that the dog deserves any rights or otherwise special treatment.

 

[Jack-Reacher]

I believe I'm in the "There are far bigger issues in the world right now than dog fighting" crowd

People need to get over it

You can’t compare dog fighting to the rest of the world’s problems, and then dismiss it so easily. Just because genocide is worse than dog fighting and it is happening somewhere in some small foreign country does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that we should simply ignore this dog fighting issue. Child molestation is a reprehensible crime, and many people would be up in arms if it turned out Ron Mexico was involved in that. Would your argument be the same? Should we ignore something as bad as molestation simply because genocide is worse? Which crimes do warrant our attention? While I admit that there is a vast difference between molestation and dog fighting, the feelings such illegal acts invoke are very similar, repulsion, disgust, rage, etc. It may not be a big deal to any one person, but this society as a whole determined that dog fighting is inhumane and that people who participate in it are criminals. It also raises larger issues to consider. It certainly brings the character of M.Vick into question. It isn’t that hard of a leap to believe that someone who condones a bloodlust sport such as dog fighting wouldn’t have much of a problem crossing over into other areas of illegal activity.

i was wrong about the blunt force trauma to cows there are three primary methods.

1) a steel rod is shot to the back of the animals head. bullets are much too expensive. it often takes more than one shot to kill the animal.

2) an electric current induses a seizure at which they slit the animals throat

3) the kosher method which involves slitting the throat and hanging the animal by the hindquarters.

I have spent a considerable amount of time in IBP’s meat packing plants. I can tell you that the plants that I visited used a steel rod which was shot into the back of the cows head causing instant death. It was a humane and practical method of killing the cow. The do slit the throat and hang the cow by the hindquarters AFTER the cow is dead to drain the blood from the body while they prepare it for butchering. I won’t go into any more detail, but the big meat packers do use a humane method of killing the animals. They use to use sledgehammers and brute force trauma, but it was not effective and it was found to be inhumane.

Most of the local meat processing companies do indeed shoot the animal. I have seen many cows killed for meat in this manner and have not seen them shoot it more than once.

i understand the need for animal testing but it is still not nice to inject a baboon with anthrax or hiv.

The devastation caused by HIV or Anthrax isn’t nice either. I don’t think we can put animals on the same level as human beings. I am not saying that we need to use inhumane testing methods, but animal testing is a necessary procedure that benefits all of mankind.

Jon

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Just my opinion, but I think you started out really nice with the blood lust part, but the ending with the rights-like language threw me off.

I think there are two compelling reasons for banning dog-fighting.

1. Potential harm from the animals (not to the animals).
2. Potentially negative psychological effect on humans. Sort of a desensitization to or enhancement of blood lust.

I don't think there's a single compelling argument that the dog deserves any rights or otherwise special treatment.

Its funny you are the only person that i have i heard put a reasonable argument against dogfighting other than the 'its illegal' or 'i love my dogs.'

if anyone could present anything that showing that dogfighting caused people to be more violent or something of that sort i would be 100% against it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The devastation caused by HIV or Anthrax isn’t nice either. I don’t think we can put animals on the same level as human beings. I am not saying that we need to use inhumane testing methods, but animal testing is a necessary procedure that benefits all of mankind.

Jon

Here is a hint: im not against animal testing. My point is that we abuse, torture and kill animals as a matter of course so why all the concern over dogs.

 

[Viper]

I don't think there's a single compelling argument that the dog deserves any rights or otherwise special treatment.

Just curious, what rights or special treatment do you believe I gave to dogs?

 

[Jack-Reacher]

Here is a hint: im not against animal testing. My point is that we abuse, torture and kill animals as a matter of course so why all the concern over dogs.

Yet in all of the examples you used, none of them turned out to be accurate. Well the mink one hasn't been disputed, but to say that we abuse torture and kill as a matter of course isn't a accurate statement in my opinion. Animal rights have come a long way in just 20 years, to use arguments from any time before that, I just can't see how that applies. Animal testing is performed with the betterment of the human race in mind, but can the same be said for dog fighting? Who benefits from it? (other than monetarily) I am not trying to call you out on this, I am trying to understand your position on it, because quite frankly, I can't see a valid comparison between testing and fighting. I guess I need another hint.